Spring Training

[unlvmariners]

Agreed AZ, Walker looks good.

I was looking at a the most obvious starting rotation options for the season and the more I look at it the more I am convinced the 5th spot is going to be Walker.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree even with the Kevin Correia signing...sarcasm.

Somehow though they need to limit his innings or he will be useless down the stretch when we need him if everything goes to plan. That is my worry with him, Paxton, and Elias. Who will have innings left in September/October?

 

[unlvmariners]

I agree even with the Kevin Correia signing...sarcasm.

Somehow though they need to limit his innings or he will be useless down the stretch when we need him if everything goes to plan. That is my worry with him, Paxton, and Elias. Who will have innings left in September/October?

Here is the way I see it... I think we have 6 main options to get starts from to start the year. Felix, Kuma, Paxton, Happ, Walker and Elias. I think we will need to get starts from at least these 6 guys and probably a few more in order to make it through the season. I think Happ could end up being the 6th best starter we have but he should still be on the roster as an effective inning consumer. We will need his innings in order to get through the entire season and take pressure off Walker and Elias.

There is also the possibility that Erasmo Ramirez doesn't make it through waivers. Correia then takes his spot as the fallback option if and when injuries come up.

If injuries become an issue for the starting rotation we could be in a bit of trouble. The main 6 options can be a very good rotation but the injury concern is there for most of them. The depth of the starting rotation is what concerns me. I am interested to see how everything plays out.

 

[dude82]

I think last year proved that you can never have too much pitching. If the M's can stash a couple of MLB-caliber starters down in Tacoma, they'll have the flexibility to deal with injuries if and when they arise and it would afford them the opportunity to bring the young guys along at their own pace instead of having to overwork them because they were our only options.

 

[wazzu31]

I think last year proved that you can never have too much pitching. If the M's can stash a couple of MLB-caliber starters down in Tacoma, they'll have the flexibility to deal with injuries if and when they arise and it would afford them the opportunity to bring the young guys along at their own pace instead of having to overwork them because they were our only options.

Completely agree but the problem for me is as Zona said will be innings. Even if they keep an option or 2 down in Tacoma it will be tough for them to say hey kid go throw your heart out for 5 innings or 75 pitches then we have to yank you in case we need you. Or possibly they could say f it since I think the innings think is a crock anyway and make them throw as many innings as possible until their arms fall off.

 

[unlvmariners]

Completely agree but the problem for me is as Zona said will be innings. Even if they keep an option or 2 down in Tacoma it will be tough for them to say hey kid go throw your heart out for 5 innings or 75 pitches then we have to yank you in case we need you. Or possibly they could say f it since I think the innings think is a crock anyway and make them throw as many innings as possible until their arms fall off.

To be honest with you I think this is the route Seattle should take with their younger starters. Maybe not literally until their arms fall off but I think you should treat all starting pitchers the same once they reach ML level I hate it when front offices are injury paranoid about their young pitchers. I say let them pitch until their performance begins to hurt the success of the team, and use that strategy both for the games they start as well as over the course of the season.

 

[NWinAZ]

This is where you either need veteran pitchers, and if they get hurt you are just shit out of luck, or value kids in Tacoma who you can manage their innings and have the ready to pitch in August/Sept if/when needed. It is a balancing act that is tricky, but must be made in order to survive a full season. Cardinals had that. Nationals had that as well. That is how they survived all the arms injuries to still make the playoffs. We don't have that unless you consider Ramirez, if he passes waivers, and Pries (sp?). I don't see a vet like Correia hanging down in Tacoma all year for a chance in August/Sept.

 

[unlvmariners]

This is where you either need veteran pitchers, and if they get hurt you are just shit out of luck, or value kids in Tacoma who you can manage their innings and have the ready to pitch in August/Sept if/when needed. It is a balancing act that is tricky, but must be made in order to survive a full season. Cardinals had that. Nationals had that as well. That is how they survived all the arms injuries to still make the playoffs. We don't have that unless you consider Ramirez, if he passes waivers, and Pries (sp?). I don't see a vet like Correia hanging down in Tacoma all year for a chance in August/Sept.

Probably right which is a good thing for us cause he isn't very good...

What can really screw us up is the timing. If you think of the season in thirds beginning, middle, end most likely we will have different replacement options during each of those time periods. I hate to think of the starting rotation like its inevitable some of our guys will get hurt but the reality is it took the 2014 Mariners 10 different guys starting games to get through the season, 11 the season before. I miss having at least 2 workhorse pitchers to go for 200 innings a little consistency would be nice, Vargas was an innings wrecking ball, I would value a guy like him pretty highly right now.

 

[NWinAZ]

Agree 100%.

 

[Anointed One]

Today's lineup looks like very much like an April 6th lineup to me.

I pray that Elias is not one of our SP's...

 

[wazzu31]

To be honest with you I think this is the route Seattle should take with their younger starters. Maybe not literally until their arms fall off but I think you should treat all starting pitchers the same once they reach ML level I hate it when front offices are injury paranoid about their young pitchers. I say let them pitch until their performance begins to hurt the success of the team, and use that strategy both for the games they start as well as over the course of the season.

That is something I have hated so much since that "study" came out about innings when I fully believe it is a crock. In baseball there is no perfect anything, no perfect inning/pitch count, there is no perfect pitching mechanics there is no real proof that throwing pitchers have a certain amount of pitches in his arm. Sure there are some doctors that have conjured up a study that says X but doctors definition of a perfect pitcher was Mark Prior yet he didn't get hurt because of too many innings, sh*t happens.

If owners are really that concerned with young pitchers hurting their arms then maybe, just maybe there should raise the mounds again or take the mound away completely where it puts less stress on your arm.

 

[cezero]

I thought Taylor was the best option at SS since August of last year.

Nothing has dissuaded me so far in Spring Training.

But it's Spring Training.

 

[dude82]

If Paxton and Walker hadn't gotten hurt last year, I don't think we'd be sitting here talking about innings limits or pitch counts for this season. Since they did both get hurt last year, the team might be more cautious than they otherwise would have been had both guys been healthy all year. The fact of the matter is, unless and until it can be proven definitively that easing a guy along has no appreciable beneficial impact on the long-term health of his arm, teams are gonna keep doing it. I don't know when this trend started, but it might be a while yet before enough data is compiled to come to a definitive conclusion one way or the other. Until then, if the M's want to ease these guys in, there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[cezero]

Walker has a total of 8 MLB starts. He went through the long rehab for his shoulder, and has tinkered with his motion 2 times in the past 10 months. Caution right now is very important.

 

[NWinAZ]

Walker has a total of 8 MLB starts. He went through the long rehab for his shoulder, and has tinkered with his motion 2 times in the past 10 months. Caution right now is very important.

Very important. He will not be pitching in late August so who will be if we are in a pennant race? I doubt see Paxton itching then either. I just don't see M's sense of urgency for late in the season. Maybe they don't expect to be playing for anything?

 

[SeattleCoug]

I pray that Elias is not one of our SP's...

Not sure why. He may not be the flashy name that Paxton and Walker are but he has made it farther into a season then those two have thus far. Not saying Elias is better than them but I was impressed with the year he put together. He ran out of gas but dude showed grit, attitude and impressive stuff most of the year. I favor him more then most so it is what it is.

 

[cezero]

Agreed. So much upside to Elias. If he has a a good Spring and is competitive for a SP job, then I don't see how a Mariners fan could be unhappy.

That curve is a scarcy, scary thing for lefthanded hitters. A true weapon.

 

[NWinAZ]

Ya, if he can put it all together then I would be ecstatic. I have no preference on who makes it, but I also don't have very high expectations with him. Hope I am wrong on him.

 

[NWinAZ]

Probably all heard, but Taylor out 4-6 weeks with broken wrist. Tough blow to him. This wasn't how I wanted the SS spot to be decided.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Rough news on Taylor. I loved that he was showing some pop this spring. I hope this doesnt linger because I am hopeful he contributes this year. Unfortunately its nearly impossible to make it out of spring unscathed. Hopefully no other injuries pop up