So...Shawn Thornton will probably need his own thread....

[pixburgher66]

Ok I guess you cannot see my point. I am done.

What Thornton did was wrong. Was it the worst thing that I have seen in hockey? Not a chance. Should he get suspended Yes he should.

Just to say my opinion: worst thing I've seen in hockey. I'm younger though, so I didn't really see the Bertuzzi thing live, only years later.

 

[BF4L]

See this is where I disagree with lots of people. That's a clean hit, but definitely has intent to injure. I don't see why everyone gets bent out of shape when guys have to answer the bell for clean but vicious hits? You're basically saying it's OK to injure my teammates as long as it's a clean hit. You'd think a team would want to stand up for each other regardless of how the guy got hurt. Take your 5 minutes +2 and a game (unless you're malkin) for instigating.

You shouldn't have to fight for laying a clean hit though. Injuries happen, and concussions can happen with much lesser hits than that. I understand Thornton being upset, but that doesn't mean Orpik HAS to fight. That argument was made by a lot of people..."Oh, he could've avoided this if he wasn't a pussy and fought like a man." No. That's like asses that claim women who look attractive are asking to be raped. No. This is why the "code" is a complete joke. There's no code. Or there's just no "honorable" guys out there to follow it.

I think what Awaz is saying is the hit is deemed clean by the rules but has intent to injure. It did.

 

[Darkstone42]

I don't think there was intent to injure. I think there was intent to hurt, which every hit has, but not intent to injure. If you're trying to injure someone, you go for a part of the body more vulnerable than the shoulder. That is, you make an illegal hit.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Ok I guess you cannot see my point. I am done.

What Thornton did was wrong. Was it the worst thing that I have seen in hockey? Not a chance. Should he get suspended Yes he should.

Just to say my opinion: worst thing I've seen in hockey. I'm younger though, so I didn't really see the Bertuzzi thing live, only years later.

Not the worst thing I have seen but it's in the same ballpark as some of the worst things done in modern NHL history.

It's right there with Domi's sucker punch and Bertuzzi's attack on Moore.

We'll see if the NHL is serious about head injuries by how they deal with Thornton and, to a slightly lesser degree, Neal.

 

[thedddd]

Not the worst thing I have seen but it's in the same ballpark as some of the worst things done in modern NHL history.

It's right there with Domi's sucker punch and Bertuzzi's attack on Moore.

We'll see if the NHL is serious about head injuries by how they deal with Thornton and, to a slightly lesser degree, Neal.

Yeah there have been worse and the one that ranks up near the top that I remember very vividly is what McSorley did to Brashear. Didn't he even get charged with assault?

I didn't see this one until replays but what Ciccarelli did to Luke Richardson got him a day in jail. Even though it really had no affects physically on Richardson.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Yeah there have been worse and the one that ranks up near the top that I remember very vividly is what McSorley did to Brashear. Didn't he even get charged with assault?

I didn't see this one until replays but what Ciccarelli did to Luke Richardson got him a day in jail. Even though it really had no affects physically on Richardson.

Yeah I forgot about Dino.

There was also the Perezhogin incident in the minors. THAT was nasty.

 

[Jims_Doors]

I think what Awaz is saying is the hit is deemed clean by the rules but has intent to injure. It did.

In my book.....intent to injure usually means a dirty play / something illegal

But that's just me.

 

[awaz]

When did i say that?

I have no issue with Thorton sticking up for his teammates how he went about it the second time was plain out stupid.

Oh no, that was a broad 'youre' not targeting anyone specifically. Just people that get uppity when guys have to answer for clean hits.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[dash]

I guess you never know what will happen with Shanny, but based on the optics of last night combined with the filing of the NHL concussion lawsuit, I'd be surprised if Thornton got less than 20 games.

 

[thedddd]

In my book.....intent to injure usually means a dirty play / something illegal

But that's just me.

I agree...every check there is a want to hurt but not injure.

 

[thedddd]

Oh no, that was a broad 'youre' not targeting anyone specifically. Just people that get uppity when guys have to answer for clean hits.

Sorry for the confusion.

No biggie, I thought i said something stupid like that and forgot!

 

[thedddd]

Yeah I forgot about Dino.

There was also the Perezhogin incident in the minors. THAT was nasty.

I totally forgot about that one! What he did was probably worse than the others by far. Like the coach said he shouldn't be playing in north america and don't worry that eurotrash isn't anymore.

What is so funny about Dino's (not that there is much funny about it) is he looks like the a little kid spazing out on some big older bully.

 

[thedddd]

I guess you never know what will happen with Shanny, but based on the optics of last night combined with the filing of the NHL concussion lawsuit, I'd be surprised if Thornton got less than 20 games.

Great point and Neal's probably will be pretty hefty since his knee targeted Marchands head.

 

[awaz]

I think orpik had intent to injure there. Head down, puck missed, orpik laid him out. But we'll never come to a conclusion on that because as far as I know, none of us are Brooks orpik.

And I think if you're prepared to make a hit like that, regardless of legality, you should be ready to fight to defend yourself. If orpik doesn't want to fight there, he should ease up on the hit. You can hit Erikson there without blowing him up. If you're not ready for someone to intend to hurt/injure you, following you intending to hurt/injure their teammate. Don't make the hit. Absolutely doesn't excuse Thornton, I'm just speaking in generalities on clean hits resulting in fights.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Can we at least all agree that none of this would even happen if fighting was removed from the game?

 

[awaz]

Neal has been suspended once in his career. 2gms in 2009 for boarding.

He may only have been suspended once, but he's a dirty prick. You may not see it because you're a fan of his (which is fine) , but he is. There's been multiple times where the wheel landed on no suspension and it shouldn't have.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

He may only have been suspended once, but he's a dirty prick. You may not see it because you're a fan of his (which is fine) , but he is. There's been multiple times where the wheel landed on no suspension and it shouldn't have.

Agreed.

 

[evolver115]

I think orpik had intent to injure there. Head down, puck missed, orpik laid him out. But we'll never come to a conclusion on that because as far as I know, none of us are Brooks orpik.

And I think your well professed hate of the Pens is clouding your judgement.

That is an open ice hit. Orpik doesn't leave his feet, and he definitely does not target the head. What else could you possibly see there that leads you to believe Orpik had any intent to injure him? Hitting, like the word intends, refers to contact given in... shall we say, a highly unfriendly manner. To say he intended to injure Eriksson, though? That's a reach.

Could it have been interference? Sure. Just as much as Steckel's hit was to Crosby four years ago. The puck wasn't really within reach. Not surprisingly, though, it didn't get called there, either.


Edit: and that is the problem with the current nhl. Players have to respond for laying hits deemed by the officials to be legal. Maybe they just need to outlaw hitting in the NHL..


Kidding, of course. But I hope you see my point.

 

[awaz]

And I think your well professed hate of the Pens is clouding your judgement.

That is an open ice hit. Orpik doesn't leave his feet, and he definitely does not target the head. What else could you possibly see there that leads you to believe Orpik had any intent to injure him? Hitting, like the word intends, refers to contact given in... shall we say, a highly unfriendly manner. To say he intended to injure Eriksson, though? That's a reach.

Could it have been interference? Sure. Just as much as Steckel's hit was to Crosby four years ago. The puck wasn't really within reach. Not surprisingly, though, it didn't get called there, either.

It's a clean hit and a great hit. He should be prepared to answer the bell though imo. Arguing intent to hurt vs intent to injure is pointless because like I said, neither of us are Brooks orpik, and both of us are biased. All I'm saying is if you want to make a hit of the magnitude, you should be ready to answer for it. In the form of a fight, not a dirty mugging. I don't care if it's clean or not. If I'm Erikson's teammate there I'm gunna stand up for him. Just because it's clean doesn't mean you didn't seriously injure my teammate/friend

 

[Darkstone42]

It's a clean hit and a great hit. He should be prepared to answer the bell though imo. Arguing intent to hurt vs intent to injure is pointless because like I said, neither of us are Brooks orpik, and both of us are biased. All I'm saying is if you want to make a hit of the magnitude, you should be ready to answer for it. In the form of a fight, not a dirty mugging.

Why? If you are playing within the rules, making the type of play it is your job to make, why should you have to fight? Why, in particular, should you have to fight on your opponent's time frame? Thornton challenged Orpik with the Penguins on the attack. Dropping the gloves there would have been stupid.

And why would Orpik, playing well right now, and one of our better defensive blueliners, want to take himself off the ice for five minutes in exchange for a fourth-liner? It hurts the Penguins.

You shouldn't have to fight for playing hard. That's a ridiculous claim.