So, Is The "U" Back?

[ericd7633]

That's a fair point, you're right. But Purdue has beaten us 3 times in the last decade. That's saying something. The disparity in talent between OSU and michigan is overblown though. From 2016-2019, OSU had an average class ranking of 5th, while michigan had an average of 10th. That's not a huge gap, yet we've beaten them convincingly every year Harbaugh has been there except for one. Trustme is far from the first michigan fan to act like recruiting is the only reason OSU dominates michigan, but it doesn't make it any less of a pathetic excuse, especially for a program like michigan that has more than enough resources to pull in elite recruits (of which they've pulled in quite a few in recent years). Not only that, but the fact that many of our biggest stars have been 4* or lower says more about our coaching and developing as compared to michigan.

Well for starters Purdue has only beaten OSU twice this decade and one of them was in 2011, when OSU had their worst season of my life.

And I would disagree. The gap between 5th and 10th is huge. Just taking the 2020 class rankings for context, the difference between 5th and 10th is the same as 10th and 26th. That's a pretty sizable gap in the types of players you're getting. You have a much larger margin of error finishing 5th than you do 10th just like if you finish 10th as opposed to 26th.

OSU does a great job developing players, no doubt. But they also have a huge advantage in talent. It's also easier for OSU to recruit on a national level than it is Michigan. I'm not sure as to why, but OSU is able to pull in recruits Michigan can't.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well for starters Purdue has only beaten OSU twice this decade and one of them was in 2011, when OSU had their worst season of my life.

And I would disagree. The gap between 5th and 10th is huge. Just taking the 2020 class rankings for context, the difference between 5th and 10th is the same as 10th and 26th. That's a pretty sizable gap in the types of players you're getting. You have a much larger margin of error finishing 5th than you do 10th just like if you finish 10th as opposed to 26th.

OSU does a great job developing players, no doubt. But they also have a huge advantage in talent. It's also easier for OSU to recruit on a national level than it is Michigan. I'm not sure as to why, but OSU is able to pull in recruits Michigan can't.

Michigan’s biggest disadvantage when it comes to recruiting. Athletes are required to attend classes, as UM does not offer online courses.
Michigan also lacks the type of in state player base that Ohio has. I can count the number of quality HS programs on two, maybe three fingers. (Cass Tech, Detroit King, Belleville)
The last and most important one is the hiring of Urban Meyer. It gave OSU an in with schools he built relationships with while at Florida and has brought them all kinds of talent. As Florida, Florida State and Texas haven’t been elite, their elite recruits go to schools that have been — one of them being OSU.

With how crazy recruiting is now — teams like Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State, Notre Dame — teams in states without a ton of in state talent — they are fighting a losing battle, as the majority of recruits they are relying on signing are from other states, who grew up watching and cheering for other teams. They not only have to beat out the local teams, but also the national programs who are going after them too.

Unless something changes in recruiting — I don’t see it changing all to much.

 

[Deep Creek]

That's a rare example. The overwhelming majority of times, elite coaches make or keep programs elite and they keep pulling in top talent.

You really think Urban Meyer would be able to do the same things at Texas Tech that he did at Florida and Ohio State?

 

[Across The Field]

Guess what — OSU is a national brand in a talent rich state. And they are the only D-1 program in the entire state.

As far as the 2000’s — I don’t even know what the recruiting was like for UM and OSU. I just know over the past decade plus — it has grossly been in OSU’s favor.

The fact you keep talking about teams in the B1G having comparable talent tells me how delusional you are. NO ONE in the B1G is anywhere near the talent level of OSU.

As I just stated — UM had the #11 recruiting class in the nation. OSU was #4 or #5. To tell you how enormous the gap is between a top 5 class and a top 15 class. UM had 1 top 100 recruit. OSU had 9 top 100 recruits.

CFB is and always will be about who can collect the most talent. Alabama and Clemson are 1a and 1b. Go down a few levels and OSU, LSU, Georgia, and I’m sure I’m missing another is 3-5.
Go down a lot of levels and it is everyone else.

What do Alabama, LSU, Georgia, OSU and Clemson have in common? I will give you a hint — it has to do with location.

Not one single time have I said they have comparable talent to OSU. I've said they have comparable talent to michigan, you dolt. If anything, they have less talent if we're going by recruiting rankings, so again -

Why can those schools beat/be very competitive with Ohio State and michigan can't?

In the 2000s, michigan had significantly higher rated classes than Ohio State. We still owned you. Why is that?

Also, to try and compare the talent in Ohio to that in California, Texas, Georgia, etc. is so incredibly ignorant. California had three 5* and 27 4* recruits in this 2020 class. Texas had five 5* and 49 4*. Georgia had four 5* and 32 4*. Ohio had one 5* and four 4*.

Man, you really don't know college football, do you?

 

[Across The Field]

Well for starters Purdue has only beaten OSU twice this decade and one of them was in 2011, when OSU had their worst season of my life.

And I would disagree. The gap between 5th and 10th is huge. Just taking the 2020 class rankings for context, the difference between 5th and 10th is the same as 10th and 26th. That's a pretty sizable gap in the types of players you're getting. You have a much larger margin of error finishing 5th than you do 10th just like if you finish 10th as opposed to 26th.

OSU does a great job developing players, no doubt. But they also have a huge advantage in talent. It's also easier for OSU to recruit on a national level than it is Michigan. I'm not sure as to why, but OSU is able to pull in recruits Michigan can't.

Sorry, I was going 2009-2019. They beat us also in 2009, but that's still twice they beat us in the last decade, as to once for michigan. We also didn't play them in 2019, so for the decade of 2009-2018, they beat us three times and michigan still only beat us once in that same timeframe, and it was during that year when OSU had the worst season of your life, and they barely escaped at home against us, at that.

If we're talking about recruiting ranking gaps, let's look at Oklahoma and Texas. In the 2000s, Texas had a better class from a qualitative standpoint than OU every year but twice. They lost 8 of their 11 games against them in that timeframe. Why is that? Because OU had better coaching and developed players much better. It's just that simple.

It's easier for OSU to recruit on a national level because we've been successful recently. We've had consistency at HC, and both Tressel and Meyer were elite coaches. On the other hand, michigan can't get anyone in at the HC spot who can actually demonstrate the ability to win or develop players well. They've had plenty of good classes with Harbaugh, but it's not translating to wins. As I also brought up before, almost all of OSU's biggest starts the last decade were 4* or lower, and michigan obviously has no problem bringing in that level of talent, so what gives? Coaching and development.

 

[Across The Field]

You really think Urban Meyer would be able to do the same things at Texas Tech that he did at Florida and Ohio State?

I mean, the guy went to Utah and won double digit games twice, where they had only had a double digit win season once in their entire history before him. If you put him in a state like Texas, yeah they would've been successful, no doubt. His offenses would've probably been juggernauts in the Big 12.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not one single time have I said they have comparable talent to OSU. I've said they have comparable talent to michigan, you dolt. If anything, they have less talent if we're going by recruiting rankings, so again -

Why can those schools beat/be very competitive with Ohio State and michigan can't?

In the 2000s, michigan had significantly higher rated classes than Ohio State. We still owned you. Why is that?

Also, to try and compare the talent in Ohio to that in California, Texas, Georgia, etc. is so incredibly ignorant. California had three 5* and 27 4* recruits in this 2020 class. Texas had five 5* and 49 4*. Georgia had four 5* and 32 4*. Ohio had one 5* and four 4*.

Man, you really don't know college football, do you?

One — they don’t have comparable talent to Michigan. You actually have more 5 star recruits than every team in the B1G COMBINED, and have 20+% more blue chip recruits.

You don’t seem to grasp the fact the difference in CFB in a ‘top 5’ class and a ‘top 10 or top 15’ is enormous. As I said — our top recruit this past year would have been your 9th highest ranked recruit.

Two — I misread your comment about facing comparable teams, because you misspelled one and I read it as you face comparable teams all year, instead of it saying you face one comparable team all year.

I do give you props for the excuses still going. As you told UM fans a few years ago — quit complaining, you lost. (It is priceless to listen to your excuses after the game with the spot and the comments made after that game)
And in games against comparable talent OSU was 0-1.

Three, 2017 the state of Ohio had 17 blue chip recruits, 2018 the state of Ohio had 14 blue chip recruits with a 5 star, 2019 the state of Ohio had 15 blue chip recruits with a 5 star. So while you cherry pick your stats again — you forget others have google.
And you know why Ohio is like the other states with more blue chip recruits? BECAUSE THE OTHER STATES HAVE 5, 6, 7 P5 D-1 programs in state to compete with for recruits. Ohio has Ohio State. Louisiana doesn’t have the amount of states like a Florida, Texas and California — but LSU, like OSU, is the only D-1 P5 program in the state. The ONE state who should be winning national titles like crazy is Georgia. They have elite talent like the huge states and only Georgia and Georgia Tech. So who benefits from this? The states that border them, like Clemson.

The fact this needs to be spelled out to you is ridiculous. Hell — most of the top players in Michigan’s history are from Ohio, but cherry pick another stat and tells us more stories.

 

[Across The Field]

One — they don’t have comparable talent to Michigan. You actually have more 5 star recruits than every team in the B1G COMBINED, and have 20+% more blue chip recruits.

You don’t seem to grasp the fact the difference in CFB in a ‘top 5’ class and a ‘top 10 or top 15’ is enormous. As I said — our top recruit this past year would have been your 9th highest ranked recruit.

Two — I misread your comment about facing comparable teams, because you misspelled one and I read it as you face comparable teams all year, instead of it saying you face one comparable team all year.
View attachment 231077
I do give you props for the excuses still going. As you told UM fans a few years ago — quit complaining, you lost. (It is priceless to listen to your excuses after the game with the spot and the comments made after that game)
And in games against comparable talent OSU was 0-1.

Three, 2017 the state of Ohio had 17 blue chip recruits, 2018 the state of Ohio had 14 blue chip recruits with a 5 star, 2019 the state of Ohio had 15 blue chip recruits with a 5 star. So while you cherry pick your stats again — you forget others have google.
And you know why Ohio is like the other states with more blue chip recruits? BECAUSE THE OTHER STATES HAVE 5, 6, 7 P5 D-1 programs in state to compete with for recruits. Ohio has Ohio State. Louisiana doesn’t have the amount of states like a Florida, Texas and California — but LSU, like OSU, is the only D-1 P5 program in the state. The ONE state who should be winning national titles like crazy is Georgia. They have elite talent like the huge states and only Georgia and Georgia Tech. So who benefits from this? The states that border them, like Clemson.

The fact this needs to be spelled out to you is ridiculous. Hell — most of the top players in Michigan’s history are from Ohio, but cherry pick another stat and tells us more stories.

For the 4th time now, I'll ask:

Why are other schools in the B1G with equal or less talent than michigan able to beat/be competitive with OSU while michigan can't?

Why did OSU own michigan in the 2000s when we were getting worse classes? You have google, as you idiotically pointed out, so go check out the recruiting rankings and let me know.

Stop sidestepping these questions and just answer them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Sorry, I was going 2009-2019. They beat us also in 2009, but that's still twice they beat us in the last decade, as to once for michigan. We also didn't play them in 2019, so for the decade of 2009-2018, they beat us three times and michigan still only beat us once in that same timeframe, and it was during that year when OSU had the worst season of your life, and they barely escaped at home against us, at that.

If we're talking about recruiting ranking gaps, let's look at Oklahoma and Texas. In the 2000s, Texas had a better class from a qualitative standpoint than OU every year but twice. They lost 8 of their 11 games against them in that timeframe. Why is that? Because OU had better coaching and developed players much better. It's just that simple.

It's easier for OSU to recruit on a national level because we've been successful recently. We've had consistency at HC, and both Tressel and Meyer were elite coaches. On the other hand, michigan can't get anyone in at the HC spot who can actually demonstrate the ability to win or develop players well. They've had plenty of good classes with Harbaugh, but it's not translating to wins. As I also brought up before, almost all of OSU's biggest starts the last decade were 4* or lower, and michigan obviously has no problem bringing in that level of talent, so what gives? Coaching and development.

Here is how close the recruiting is between UM and OSU. In the last 4 years — OSU has signed 38 guys in the top 100. UM has signed 9 in the top 100.

Tell me again how comparable the talent is and how it is all about OSU coaches.

 

[Deep Creek]

I mean, the guy went to Utah and won double digit games twice, where they had only had a double digit win season once in their entire history before him. If you put him in a state like Texas, yeah they would've been successful, no doubt. His offenses would've probably been juggernauts in the Big 12.

So you think Urban Meyer would be able to recruit the same talent to Lubbock, TX that he did to Florida and Ohio State..and win a CFP for the Red Raiders? Lincoln Riley is a native of the Lubbock area and even he would admit he wouldn't be able to attract the same talent to Tech that he does to OU.

No doubt he had success at Utah. But he didn't win National Championships there and certainly didn't have the same talent on the Ute roster that he had at Florida and/or Ohio State. And he'd have similar success at a place like Texas Tech. But no way he'd have the same success he had at Florida and Ohio State.

But, I will agree with you the once you get to the upper echelon schools. I do think Urban would be able to recruit the same talent to a Texas and a Texas A&M and win a CFP/natty like he did at Florida and Ohio State. He'd have top five recruiting classes to those two...just not at Texas Tech, Baylor or TCU.

 

[Across The Field]

Here is how close the recruiting is between UM and OSU. In the last 4 years — OSU has signed 38 guys in the top 100. UM has signed 9 in the top 100.

Tell me again how comparable the talent is and how it is all about OSU coaches.

How many top 100 guys have Wisconsin, Penn State, and Michigan State signed in that timeframe?

 

[ericd7633]

Sorry, I was going 2009-2019. They beat us also in 2009, but that's still twice they beat us in the last decade, as to once for michigan. We also didn't play them in 2019, so for the decade of 2009-2018, they beat us three times and michigan still only beat us once in that same timeframe, and it was during that year when OSU had the worst season of your life, and they barely escaped at home against us, at that.

If we're talking about recruiting ranking gaps, let's look at Oklahoma and Texas. In the 2000s, Texas had a better class from a qualitative standpoint than OU every year but twice. They lost 8 of their 11 games against them in that timeframe. Why is that? Because OU had better coaching and developed players much better. It's just that simple.

It's easier for OSU to recruit on a national level because we've been successful recently. We've had consistency at HC, and both Tressel and Meyer were elite coaches. On the other hand, michigan can't get anyone in at the HC spot who can actually demonstrate the ability to win or develop players well. They've had plenty of good classes with Harbaugh, but it's not translating to wins. As I also brought up before, almost all of OSU's biggest starts the last decade were 4* or lower, and michigan obviously has no problem bringing in that level of talent, so what gives? Coaching and development.

Why would you bring up OU and Texas? Seems weird to do out of nowhere.

I've admitted OSU develops their players as good as anyone. It's also pretty clear the gap in talent is very wide between the two.

OSU recruits nationally now because of what Urban did. Before him they weren't recruiting nationally(at least under Tressel)

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

For the 4th time now, I'll ask:

Why are other schools in the B1G with equal or less talent than michigan able to beat/be competitive with OSU while michigan can't?

Why did OSU own michigan in the 2000s when we were getting worse classes? You have google, as you idiotically pointed out, so go check out the recruiting rankings and let me know.

Stop sidestepping these questions and just answer them.

Do I need to answer this?!? Really?!? Maybe if I talk slowly and use small words, you will understand.

It is called thinking you will win easily before you play the game. Many call it trap games. Where your talent gap is so big, you think you will win just by showing up. Then you get punched in the mouth and you aren’t prepared.

What will never happen in a Michigan/OSU game — OSU will never look past the game. The school goes as far as to ‘x’ out the letter M and have countdowns til the game. They prepare for the game from the beginning of the season.

As far as the 2000’s — you go look it up. You are making the statements. So go ahead and tell me about the huge discrepancies OSU overcame.

 

[Across The Field]

So you think Urban Meyer would be able to recruit the same talent to Lubbock, TX that he did to Florida and Ohio State..and win a CFP for the Red Raiders? Lincoln Riley is a native of the Lubbock area and even he would admit he wouldn't be able to attract the same talent to Tech that he does to OU.

No doubt he had success at Utah. But he didn't win National Championships there and certainly didn't have the same talent on the Ute roster that he had at Florida and/or Ohio State. And he'd have similar success at a place like Texas Tech. But no way he'd have the same success he had at Florida and Ohio State.

But, I will agree with you the once you get to the upper echelon schools. I do think Urban would be able to recruit the same talent to a Texas and a Texas A&M and win a CFP/natty like he did at Florida and Ohio State. He'd have top five recruiting classes to those two...just not at Texas Tech, Baylor or TCU.

That's sort of my point. He went to Utah and completely rejuvenated that program, and it's his protege that still leads them to this day. They're not an elite power, but they are a really good program. They've won 9+ games five of the last six years, but before Urban went there, they had won 9+ games twice ever. I'm not saying he would've won national titles there, but clearly he made his imprint there.

Would he have won a NC at Texas Tech? It's very possible, but not likely. Of course it's easier to get better recruits at big-time schools, but you still have to be an elite coach to win there. On the topic at hand, michigan certainly falls under the umbrella of being a big-time school with the resources to win a title, but their coaching and development has been crap.

 

[Across The Field]

Why would you bring up OU and Texas? Seems weird to do out of nowhere.

I've admitted OSU develops their players as good as anyone. It's also pretty clear the gap in talent is very wide between the two.

OSU recruits nationally now because of what Urban did. Before him they weren't recruiting nationally(at least under Tressel)

It wasn't out of nowhere. I was pointing out that Texas thoroughly out-recruited Oklahoma in the last decade but only won 3 of 11 games. Point is, better recruits absolutely don't = more wins. That's why coaching and development is more important than recruiting stars.

You're right, Tressel didn't recruit nationally, but he was still extremely successful not doing it because he was an elite coach. That sort of illustrates my point perfectly. His recruiting classes were rarely among the best in the nation, yet he won all the time. Harbaugh has way better recruiting classes but can't win anything of relevance because he's a shitty coach and doesn't develop his players.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Why would you bring up OU and Texas? Seems weird to do out of nowhere.

I've admitted OSU develops their players as good as anyone. It's also pretty clear the gap in talent is very wide between the two.

OSU recruits nationally now because of what Urban did. Before him they weren't recruiting nationally(at least under Tressel)

It was a perfect storm when Urban was hired. ATF isn’t going to admit because he has blinders on.

When OSU hires Meyer, he already had his connections with Florida schools and Texas schools from his time at UF. Texas was struggling, so the many top recruits from that state wanted to play elsewhere — Urban Meyer obliged. Same goes for Florida kids. FSU and UF were struggling — Florida kids wanted to play elsewhere. Urban Meyer obliged.

If UT, FSU and UF get back to playing top 10 type football. Most of those recruits will be staying in the South again, IMO.

 

[ericd7633]

Do I need to answer this?!? Really?!? Maybe if I talk slowly and use small words, you will understand.

It is called thinking you will win easily before you play the game. Many call it trap games. Where your talent gap is so big, you think you will win just by showing up. Then you get punched in the mouth and you aren’t prepared.

What will never happen in a Michigan/OSU game — OSU will never look past the game. The school goes as far as to ‘x’ out the letter M and have countdowns til the game. They prepare for the game from the beginning of the season.

As far as the 2000’s — you go look it up. You are making the statements. So go ahead and tell me about the huge discrepancies OSU overcame.

I also don't think it's a coincidence the last 3 games OSU has lost in the B1G have all been on the road and at night. The Michigan/OSU game will never be played at night.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I also don't think it's a coincidence the last 3 games OSU has lost in the B1G have all been on the road and at night. The Michigan/OSU game will never be played at night.

No doubt. Making an away team sit around all day waiting to play a game definitely helps benefit the home team — especially when these kids are used to playing games first thing on saturdays.

I would hope ATF understands this, but I have a feeling his blinders are so thick he refuses to see the truth.

 

[Across The Field]

Do I need to answer this?!? Really?!? Maybe if I talk slowly and use small words, you will understand.

It is called thinking you will win easily before you play the game. Many call it trap games. Where your talent gap is so big, you think you will win just by showing up. Then you get punched in the mouth and you aren’t prepared.

What will never happen in a Michigan/OSU game — OSU will never look past the game. The school goes as far as to ‘x’ out the letter M and have countdowns til the game. They prepare for the game from the beginning of the season.

As far as the 2000’s — you go look it up. You are making the statements. So go ahead and tell me about the huge discrepancies OSU overcame.

So you're telling me OSU was overlooking games against ranked Michigan State, Penn State, and Wisconsin teams? Are you serious right now? So you're telling me the ONLY reason michigan can't compete the way these other teams are is because our players get up for the michigan game and don't get up for the games against the others, even when those are massive games? If anything, that's a further indictment against your coaches that they can't get their players to do the same.

Happy to help. Here are the national rankings of OSU classes going back to 2000: 9, 6, 4, (here's where Tressel took over fully) 46, 55, 74, 25, 72, 10, 5

Here's michigan: 27, 3, 14, 5, 6, 5, 10, 11, 11, 10

So once Tressel took over, our recruiting nose-dived and yours was still very good, yet we owned you. Now why could that be? Could it be because Cooper was a shit coach and Tressel was elite? Man, it's almost as if elite coaching is what really matters... weird.

 

[Across The Field]

I also don't think it's a coincidence the last 3 games OSU has lost in the B1G have all been on the road and at night. The Michigan/OSU game will never be played at night.

If we're at the point that the michigan excuse is now that they don't get to play us at night when they're at home, the conversation is probably over. That's one of the worst excuses I've ever heard.