So glad we decided.....

[j_y19]

That was a thousand years ago and included a Hall of Fame head coach. Isn't it obvious by now that the teams with Daulton and Stafford for the most part go home every January and the teams standing at the end have the better QBs?

Shuler and Ramsey were not selling the farm for a QB, they were taken with first round picks and one was a very late first. I get it, most bust, but you gotta have one to compete year after year again with very few exceptions (Flacco).

Ok, so who do you see so far in the next draft that we might target (I realize it's early).

Btw, I've come to believe that chasing for that elusive franchise QB is fools gold. They only come along every few drafts. Best bet is to make the rest of your team strong, groom a competent, but not flashy, QB and hope for some luck and your team gets hot at the right time, kinda like the NYGs when they won.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Ok, so who do you see so far in the next draft that we might target (I realize it's early).

I have no idea, way too early.

But yes we are already talking about next year's draft. On September 15. Fuck this team.

 

[j_y19]

Ok, so who do you see so far in the next draft that we might target (I realize it's early).

I have no idea, way too early.

But yes we are already talking about next year's draft. On September 15. Fuck this team.

pitiful, isn't it? I have actually started to look. There isn't one that doesn't throw up major red flags.

 

[Sharkinva]

That was a thousand years ago and included a Hall of Fame head coach. Isn't it obvious by now that the teams with dreaded game managers go home nearly every January and the teams standing at the end have the better QBs? And Russell Wilson is not a game manager, he makes huge plays at critical times virtually every week to help his team win. Alex Smith and Sam Bradford do not.

Shuler and Ramsey were not selling the farm for a QB, they were taken with first round picks and one was a very late first. I get it, most bust, but you gotta have one to compete year after year again with very few exceptions (Flacco).

Wilson has one of the top five TEAMS around him in the league. Same for Brady, Rogers and until recently even Kaepernick. And if Sunday should have pointed anything out to you its the fact that solid TEAM play can make up for what you consider average QB play. It doesnt matter if you win by one point, as long as you win. We have been trying for years to get the golden boy, and yes I for a very long time felt the same way as you. But this last attempt has shown me that just maybe we are still going about it the wrong way.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Wilson has one of the top five TEAMS around him in the league. Same for Brady, Rogers and until recently even Kaepernick. And if Sunday should have pointed anything out to you its the fact that solid TEAM play can make up for what you consider average QB play. It doesnt matter if you win by one point, as long as you win. We have been trying for years to get the golden boy, and yes I for a very long time felt the same way as you. But this last attempt has shown me that just maybe we are still going about it the wrong way.

Again I am not underestimating the importance of a great team around them. To be clear I am not proposing another blockbuster trade up of multiple picks, I am suggesting they use a top pick wisely and hope they hit on the right guy. That will leave plenty of other bullets to be used to fill out the rest of the team.

Seems like it worked out pretty well for Indy, with both Luck and Peyton it should be obvious that the team around them wasn't very good yet their QB made them perennially playoff teams. Does anyone think the Saints have had a great team around Brees all these years? Now on the other side of the coin remember all those Vikes teams before and after Favre? That team was absolutely loaded but the QB kept holding them back, same thing in Cincy and of course in SF where a better QB does more with that team around them.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again I am not underestimating the importance of a great team around them. To be clear I am not proposing another blockbuster trade up of multiple picks, I am suggesting they use a top pick wisely and hope they hit on the right guy. That will leave plenty of other bullets to be used to fill out the rest of the team.

Seems like it worked out pretty well for Indy, with both Luck and Peyton it should be obvious that the team around them wasn't very good yet their QB made them perennially playoff teams. Remember all those Vikes teams before and after Favre? They were loaded but the QB kept holding them back, same thing in Cincy and of course in SF where a better QB does more with that team around them.

Actually I think Indy with Luck was a sham. The year before Manning got hurt, they were a playoffs team. Manning goes out in game one, and all of a sudden they go on the suck for Luck campaign. They were 1-15, but they had too many fluke losses for my tastes, especially considering that they had no clue if Manning would ever take another snap.

Secondly, I dont think this team finishes well enough to get a franchise QB, and in fact I dont see anything in this coming draft worthy of a top ten pick at the QB position. Least wise not what would be considered on the level of a Luck. I see us finishing just well enough to get the 3rd or 4th rated QB in the draft. You were one of the main posters saying we shouldnt take a guy for need, but I guess that goes out the window when we are talking QB?? Because lets be clear here. If we are drafting a QB in the top ten, it also means we are on our third coach over the last four years. And sadly I thik if Gruden gets fired, and Griffin was on roster the entire season, we wont draft a QB because Danny will angle to give Robert one last very expensive shot.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

LOL that 1-15 was a fluke. Without Peyton that team sucked, with him they probably make the playoffs. The question remains where would Indy be with Ryan Tannehill under center instead of Luck? I think we all know the answer to that question and it's my entire point. With Luck in place they are a playoff team now and most every season for the next 15 years if he stays healthy.

Again if there is not a QB worthy of a top 10 pick I agree, don't force it to fill a need. But your idea to stop searching for a good QB because we have failed in the past and you don't really need them to succeed anyway is an opinion I'll never agree with.

 

[Sharkinva]

LOL that 1-15 was a fluke. Without Peyton that team sucked, with him they probably make the playoffs. The question remains where would Indy be with Ryan Tannehill under center instead of Luck? I think we all know the answer to that question and it's my entire point. With Luck in place they are a playoff team now and most every season for the next 15 years if he stays healthy.

Again if there is not a QB worthy of a top 10 pick I agree, don't force it to fill a need. But your idea to stop searching for a good QB because we have failed in the past and you don't really need them to succeed anyway is an opinion I'll never agree with.

My idea is to stop PRESSING for a QB. If one worth taking happens to be there, fine roll with it. But face the fact that if we are going into the offseason saying well fuck it we MUST have a QB. Thats how we ended up with Bobby 3 sticks. Because we just HAD to have a franchise QB.

 

[Stymietee]

We need to stop trying to chase the Golden Boy because in most cases they are not simply found by burning a top five pick. They are developed. And more importantly they have a team in place before they get there. When we had a consistent top ten defense, I would have been fine with trading up for a QB or chasing after the golden boy. BUt if we are any where close to drafting one of the top QBs in next years draft... it will also likely mean we need OTHER more pressing positions unless you really want to watch us destroy another young QB.

........a real headscratching comment there Shark!! Especially, that line " they are developed. And more importantly they have a team in place before they get there."

 

[Sharkinva]

........a real headscratching comment there Shark!! Especially, that line " they are developed. And more importantly they have a team in place before they get there."

Sty.. .you do realize that to develop something, you at least have to have a foundation to work with. We had no team in place and traded up for a kid with a foundation made of silly putty. You could have put Griffin on ANY team and he would have eventually failed.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty.. .you do realize that to develop something, you at least have to have a foundation to work with. We had no team in place and traded up for a kid with a foundation made of silly putty. You could have put Griffin on ANY team and he would have eventually failed.

Totally disagree, the difference is professionally run organizations would not have handled the "golden boy" in a professional manner. There is not one top teir QB who calls the shots on his respective team. Granted there are a couple that have obtained a status worthy of being allowed to give some input, but even they are limited to the bounds of the organizations structure. Tell you what, honestly disagree with me on any one of these points and I'll concede to your reasoning about Griffin.

1. Dan Snyder is a football dumbass
2. His football organization prior to the hiring of SM resembled his character as outlined in #1.
3. Every team on the schedule sees DC and believes that game to be a win for them.
4. Miami Dolphins owner stated that the game on sunday past "felt almost like a home game."

 

[skinsdad62]

you can win with a non elite qb eli won 2 superbowls and i dont think he is elite . joe flacco is another guy who isnt elite nor is wilson

 

[skinsdad62]

the top 4 qbs , jones , goff hackenburg and cook are what we would be looking at . not sure the answer is there . i like goff the best

 

[Stymietee]

OOPS, meant to say unprofessional manner

 

[Sharkinva]

Totally disagree, the difference is professionally run organizations would not have handled the "golden boy" in a professional manner. There is not one top teir QB who calls the shots on his respective team. Granted there are a couple that have obtained a status worthy of being allowed to give some input, but even they are limited to the bounds of the organizations structure. Tell you what, honestly disagree with me on any one of these points and I'll concede to your reasoning about Griffin.

1. Dan Snyder is a football dumbass
2. His football organization prior to the hiring of SM resembled his character as outlined in #1.
3. Every team on the schedule sees DC and believes that game to be a win for them.
4. Miami Dolphins owner stated that the game on sunday past "felt almost like a home game."

While I can not say any of your points are false. They are not the reason griffin is a failure. He simply is an arena qb trying to play in the nfl. Or do you think it's the teams fault he can't read defenses, holds the ball too long and can't stay healthy?

 

[Stymietee]

While I can not say any of your points are false. They are not the reason griffin is a failure. He simply is an arena qb trying to play in the nfl. Or do you think it's the teams fault he can't read defenses, holds the ball too long and can't stay healthy?

Sure do.........Said it many times before, but added this caveat, had the organization done the right thing and realized how raw the kid was for the professional game, sat him and developed him so that those things weren't an issue, he still might have failed but it would not be for those reasons. Much like a child who has parents determined to teach him/her to read. I cannot speak for others but saying no in my family was tantamount to treason......Still is!.....NO! was not an option......as it should have been with Griffin.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sure do.........Said it many times before, but added this caveat, had the organization done the right thing and realized how raw the kid was for the professional game, sat him and developed him socthose things weren't an issue, he still might have failed but it would not be for those reasons. Much like a child who has parents determined to teach him/her to read. I cannot speak for others but saying no in my family was tantamount to treason. NO! was not an option......as it should have been with Griffin.

At some point after you have afforded the child every chance to learn and gone above and beyond the norm to help him learn yet he still fails, most parents come to the realization that the child has issues

 

[Stymietee]

At some point after you have afforded the child every chance to learn and gone above and beyond the norm to help him learn yet he still fails, most parents come to the realization that the child has issues

I'm not saying that the child doesn't fail, just that his/her failure won't be because they cannot read.

 

[ehb5]

Al those I highlighted have taken years to develop. Even when taken in the first round. I guess you missed the whole first four years of Eli when they wondered if he would turn out like Bob. Romo was a backup for four years, as was Rogers. And the list of first round savior QBs who have been complete or semi busts is MUCH longer. Of those no highlighted how many have gone to good teams only missing a QB. Brady, Flacco, Wilson and a few others.

Again we have spent so many years and draft picks chasing the golden unicorn that we have let the rest of the roster rot into its present state. Going after Griffin only increased the decay of the roster, and fostered a culture of star player mentality which is a part of the real dysfunction with this team. Any place else there would have been an open competition for the starting gig this year. Not some phantom super secret open competition like we apparently had. If neither of the QBs we currently have are the QB to lead us forward, it would be dumb to keep throwing high draft picks at the position as right now this team is constructed to build going forward. My hope is that SMGM remembers how he built the Niners and the Seahawks and resists the urge to feed another young QB to the wolves. Because we all know if Gruden is fired and we draft a QB, no way does Dan go for a 1st round pick sitting on the bench behind whom ever the journeyman QB we bring in happens to be. And as i said before, if we go through the season with Griffin on the roster and Gruden does get fired, Griffin will be the QB next year any way.

Al those I highlighted have taken years to develop. Even when taken in the first round. I guess you missed the whole first four years of Eli when they wondered if he would turn out like Bob. Romo was a backup for four years, as was Rogers. And the list of first round savior QBs who have been complete or semi busts is MUCH longer. Of those no highlighted how many have gone to good teams only missing a QB. Brady, Flacco, Wilson and a few others.

Again we have spent so many years and draft picks chasing the golden unicorn that we have let the rest of the roster rot into its present state. Going after Griffin only increased the decay of the roster, and fostered a culture of star player mentality which is a part of the real dysfunction with this team. Any place else there would have been an open competition for the starting gig this year. Not some phantom super secret open competition like we apparently had. If neither of the QBs we currently have are the QB to lead us forward, it would be dumb to keep throwing high draft picks at the position as right now this team is constructed to build going forward. My hope is that SMGM remembers how he built the Niners and the Seahawks and resists the urge to feed another young QB to the wolves. Because we all know if Gruden is fired and we draft a QB, no way does Dan go for a 1st round pick sitting on the bench behind whom ever the journeyman QB we bring in happens to be. And as i said before, if we go through the season with Griffin on the roster and Gruden does get fired, Griffin will be the QB next year any way.

Thats just false. All the QBs you bolded were good pretty much from the moment they became starters. Eli wasnt but he is a very case. We shouldnt be trying to replicate Elis career path.

And I dont know why you keep bringing up Griffin when I agree with you and am not advocating trading 3 first rounders for a qb.

You also bring up 1st round qbs busting. Well yea, every position does. But youre going to REALLY struggle to find anything in outside the 1st round.

How exactly do you expect us to find a franchise QB, shark? Fact is we need one, and the best way to get one is draft one in the first round.

 

[ehb5]

It absolutely should be considered, but it doesn't have to be an absolute we draft a QB if we have a top pick. If we have learned anything, if there are questions about any prospect, maybe we trade that pick and continue to fill out the roster and make what we have work until we can get the prospect we want. In other words, don't be so desperate we over look red flags.

We do need to at some point. Luck and Peyton don't come along very often. We shouldnt reach but we will need a QB soon.