POLL Should Tua retire?

[Debbie Does]

Can th NFL or the Dolphins "medically retire" a player, not just a star, franchise player like Tua, but any player? Suppose he doesn't want to retire. Yeah, the Dolphins could cut him, if his contract allows it, but suppose another team decides to take a chance and sign him?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Can th NFL or the Dolphins "medically retire" a player, not just a star, franchise player like Tua, but any player? Suppose he doesn't want to retire. Yeah, the Dolphins could cut him, if his contract allows it, but suppose another team decides to take a chance and sign him?

I mean - I'm sure that the team/NFL could "find" a Doctor who wouldn't medically clear him, and the team would point to that report as why they won't clear him to return...but it would be extremely interesting to see how it would play out....

 

[fastforward]

IR is for players with clear medical issues that will prevent them playing for multiple weeks. That shouldn't apply to concussions unless the player has failed the tests for several weeks. Originally IR had stricter criteria to prevent teams from stockpiling talent. If/when Tagovailoa clears the concussion protocol he should be on the active roster - and he should play. Once cleared if he chooses not to play that should be his choice and the team should be freed from contractual obligations.

He's not some priceless work of art that mustn't be put in harm's way.

 

[Cincyfan78]

IR is for players with clear medical issues that will prevent them playing for multiple weeks. That shouldn't apply to concussions unless the player has failed the tests for several weeks. Originally IR had stricter criteria to prevent teams from stockpiling talent. If/when Tagovailoa clears the concussion protocol he should be on the active roster - and he should play. Once cleared if he chooses not to play that should be his choice and the team should be freed from contractual obligations.

He's not some priceless work of art that mustn't be put in harm's way.

Not sure I agree. I think there is a nuance here that isn't being considered. This isn't like a pulled muscle, or broken finger. This dude's head is, likely, turning into Jello....I think being able to IR him and allowing the extra time to rest is a good thing. Much like even when players are "cleared" by Dr's to return, they may still be out of games for another week, or two...just depending.

Tua's situation isn't normal, or is it a case where it's a one-off, or even a 2nd occurrence - we are talking about 4 documented concussion between his College days and NFL, with the last 3 showing severe signs of trauma due to the posture immediately after the impact. There is also still the 4th NFL concussion in which was completely glossed over the week leading up to that massive concussion against the Bengals in 2022.

I don't think a normal approach to this situation can be taken - it has to be thoroughly vetted and likely sets a precedent for what happens when other players go through something similar with multiple on-field concussions to the extreme that Tua has experienced.

 

[Debbie Does]

I mean - I'm sure that the team/NFL could "find" a Doctor who wouldn't medically clear him, and the team would point to that report as why they won't clear him to return...but it would be extremely interesting to see how it would play out....

But similarly, another team could find another doctor who would clear him medically. This is not an easy and repeatable diagnosis. I am beginning to think that the whole NFL and possibly the CFL besides should start thinking about concussions and when to say enough is enough.

These guys have devoted their lives to being stars in the NFL. It's not an easy call for any of them. I still remember giving up hockey at 70 years old because my old body couldn't take it. It's never a call anyone wants to make.

 

[Southieinnc]

There needs to be a time in everyone life where you got to say Fuck your dreams and Asperations. There is another way..................

Tua's time is now

I quit my pro racing career before my prime. Am I a quitter? Anybody that knows me knows I am definitely not.
I recognized that I needed to go another direction and I did.
Is it hard? Damn yes. But it was the right decision for me.
Ultimately, whatever decision Tua makes will be the right decision for him.
Nobody gets up in the morning and says, "I think I'll make the wrong decision today"
Any decision he makes will be based on what he knows at that time.....

 

[Cincyfan78]

But similarly, another team could find another doctor who would clear him medically. This is not an easy and repeatable diagnosis. I am beginning to think that the whole NFL and possibly the CFL besides should start thinking about concussions and when to say enough is enough.

These guys have devoted their lives to being stars in the NFL. It's not an easy call for any of them. I still remember giving up hockey at 70 years old because my old body couldn't take it. It's never a call anyone wants to make.

I 100% agree with you. That is why I've been saying that this can't really be treated like a 'normal' injury or a one-off type thing.

The big underlying issue, IMO, here is the severity and the number of concussions Tua has now experienced. Four documented concussions going back to Alabama. 3 documented in the NFL all with fencing posture. A 4th undiagnosed concussion the week prior to one of those 3 documented.

This last one looks like it was caused more due to the trauma involved with the neck area more so than the head slamming into anything. That, IMO, is a big cause for concern in itself because it's showing the brain stem is likely being fully effected.

The NFL will, of course, will spin this as player safety, but the bottom line for a Billion dollar enterprise is protecting itself. We all know football is dangerous, and there is a lot of self-onus on the outcomes on the bodies when players play. That being said - as you said - when is enough enough? When does a team, or the league, finally step in and say " No more" - because the injury history to the brain is too much.

This isn't like an ACL, or broken bones. This is being able to pick your kids up and play with them when you are still 30 - and not shitting yourself drooling in some hospital bed waiting to die because someone, somewhere, didn't have the wherewithal to stand up and say no more.

 

[fastforward]

Not sure I agree. I think there is a nuance here that isn't being considered. This isn't like a pulled muscle, or broken finger. This dude's head is, likely, turning into Jello....I think being able to IR him and allowing the extra time to rest is a good thing. Much like even when players are "cleared" by Dr's to return, they may still be out of games for another week, or two...just depending.

Tua's situation isn't normal, or is it a case where it's a one-off, or even a 2nd occurrence - we are talking about 4 documented concussion between his College days and NFL, with the last 3 showing severe signs of trauma due to the posture immediately after the impact. There is also still the 4th NFL concussion in which was completely glossed over the week leading up to that massive concussion against the Bengals in 2022.

I don't think a normal approach to this situation can be taken - it has to be thoroughly vetted and likely sets a precedent for what happens when other players go through something similar with multiple on-field concussions to the extreme that Tua has experienced.

Regardless of whether he sits at home for a month, or 3 months, or until training camp in July 2025 - ultimately, what's going to be different? We knew he was concussion prone 2 years ago. The NFL has seen a player fail concussion protocols for over a year. The NFL has dealt with the situation. If Tagovailoa clears the protocol and is deemed fit to play how does anyone justify having the player sit indefinitely on IR? What precedent does that set for every other player in the NFL?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Regardless of whether he sits at home for a month, or 3 months, or until training camp in July 2025 - ultimately, what's going to be different? We knew he was concussion prone 2 years ago. The NFL has seen a player fail concussion protocols for over a year. The NFL has dealt with the situation. If Tagovailoa clears the protocol and is deemed fit to play how does anyone justify having the player sit indefinitely on IR? What precedent does that set for every other player in the NFL?

I agree to an extent. We have seen concussions and guys retire due to them. We've not seen what we are seeing with Tua. 4 NFL concussions, 3 documented that resulted in him being completely knocked out and into the fencing posture.

We've seen guys with bells rung, and getting up wobbly. That does happen...what we don't see happen is going getting knocked out cold multiple times and going rigid on the field multiple times.

This is getting into uncharted territory, and one of the reasons why I think the NFL needs to seriously look at how they are going to approach this. Regardless of whether he gets cleared by a Doctor, nor not, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, no?

 

[fastforward]

I agree to an extent. We have seen concussions and guys retire due to them. We've not seen what we are seeing with Tua. 4 NFL concussions, 3 documented that resulted in him being completely knocked out and into the fencing posture.

We've seen guys with bells rung, and getting up wobbly. That does happen...what we don't see happen is going getting knocked out cold multiple times and going rigid on the field multiple times.

This is getting into uncharted territory, and one of the reasons why I think the NFL needs to seriously look at how they are going to approach this. Regardless of whether he gets cleared by a Doctor, nor not, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, no?

No. If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play. He has the right to walk away and NOT take the money. The Dolphins also have the right to cut him and pay all the guarantees. People seem to be looking for an involuntary way to indefinitely prevent him from playing without any situational or contract resolution. There's no indication that rest, medication, or surgery will make his footballing career situation better. As far as I know the NFL can't blackball someone just because they 'might' suffer an ugly injury in the future and the player can't decide that the fear of potentially suffering a future injury is an actual career-ending injury.

I guess he can stay on IR as long as he keeps failing the concussion protocol test, but if/when he passes it a decision has to be made.

 

[Cincyfan78]

No. If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play. He has the right to walk away and NOT take the money. The Dolphins also have the right to cut him and pay all the guarantees. People seem to be looking for an involuntary way to indefinitely prevent him from playing without any situational or contract resolution. There's no indication that rest, medication, or surgery will make his footballing career situation better. As far as I know the NFL can't blackball someone just because they 'might' suffer an ugly injury in the future and the player can't decide that the fear of potentially suffering a future injury is an actual career-ending injury.

I guess he can stay on IR as long as he keeps failing the concussion protocol test, but if/when he passes it a decision has to be made.

I'm not worried about the contract - if he's unable to play because the NFL wants to deem him unfit to continue - then I think he should be paid in full the guarantees. I'm not looking for a way for the NFL or the Dolphins to get out from the contract. I totally think he should be paid.

The NFL, like any business, has the right to determine who can, cannot play in the league. It would, clearly, take an agreement with the NFLPA, but there are rules that prevent people from being in the NFL - like the age rule for the draft. It's in place because you can't have an 18 year old kid going against a 27 year old 6 year NFL veteran. So, there are things like this in place already that protect players from themselves.

Is it a great answer? No, of course not. Again, this is something that really has not happened before. His brain may clear scans but that has no bearing on future issues at the current time, or how his brain might react to additional hits to the head/brain stem area.

I appreciate the discussion - there really just isn't a great answer, unfortunately. I hope he recovers and I hope that he has a great life after football...whenever that might start...

 

[fastforward]

I'm not worried about the contract - if he's unable to play because the NFL wants to deem him unfit to continue - then I think he should be paid in full the guarantees. I'm not looking for a way for the NFL or the Dolphins to get out from the contract. I totally think he should be paid.

The NFL, like any business, has the right to determine who can, cannot play in the league. It would, clearly, take an agreement with the NFLPA, but there are rules that prevent people from being in the NFL - like the age rule for the draft. It's in place because you can't have an 18 year old kid going against a 27 year old 6 year NFL veteran. So, there are things like this in place already that protect players from themselves.

Is it a great answer? No, of course not. Again, this is something that really has not happened before. His brain may clear scans but that has no bearing on future issues at the current time, or how his brain might react to additional hits to the head/brain stem area.

I appreciate the discussion - there really just isn't a great answer, unfortunately. I hope he recovers and I hope that he has a great life after football...whenever that might start...

If he can't clear the protocol then he's unfit to play and he'll be paid. If he does pass the protocol...the Dolphins can pay him to go away, but they can't stop another team from signing him. They certainly can't stash him indefinitely on IR or an exempt list. Effectively if they're paying him for 3 years he wouldn't earn enough to justify the risk, but it would be down to him and any other team rather than the Dolphins or the NFL.

You can't prevent a healthy player from playing just because he 'might' get hurt at some point in the future.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If he can't clear the protocol then he's unfit to play and he'll be paid. If he does pass the protocol...the Dolphins can pay him to go away, but they can't stop another team from signing him. They certainly can't stash him indefinitely on IR or an exempt list. Effectively if they're paying him for 3 years he wouldn't earn enough to justify the risk, but it would be down to him and any other team rather than the Dolphins or the NFL.

You can't prevent a healthy player from playing just because he 'might' get hurt at some point in the future.

We'll disagree on the term "healthy".

You can clear a lot of scans or exams and still not be healthy to do what you want to do. Lots of levels to health. Brain may function now, but that doesn't mean that it's good to start taking hits again. That part - you can't ever know. That's why in this extreme case, the NFL and NFLPA should absolutely err on the side of caution. Screens and Dr's are just a part of the equation.

 

[Anointed One]

Junior Seau, Dave Duerson, Aaron Hernandez, Ken Stabler...

Not just players, but stars in the NFL. They all had CTE. Concussions can lead to CTE.

Mike Webster was another one that I know if... All Pro Center for the Steelers... Wound up homeless...

 

[Superbelt]

Mike Webster was another one that I know if... All Pro Center for the Steelers... Wound up homeless...

He was considered disabled before he even retired from the NFL. Dementia, depression, no memory, and chronic pain.

He wouldn't listen to people who tried to help him, died when he was 50. Football ruined him in every way it could.

 

[Caliskinsfan]