Schiano's "antics"

[MHSL82]

What if there was a problem with the exchange and the ball hit Eli's hands and popped on the ground - have you ever seen that happen? I have. It doesn't matter how remote the possibility.

The point Imac made was simply that if Schiano were sincere about his intentions then he would have called his last time-out to give himself a shot at that possibility regardless of how remote it may have been.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing with Imac and I know what I said wasn't clear. His claim was correct.

I was saying I was okay with no timeout because I don't think Schiano did what he did for the reason he says he did. Affirming imac's questioning of Schiano's explanation. I know a turnover is possible on any play, even in the victory formation. By claiming to be playing for 60 minutes, that was a way of him saying that he thought there was still a chance. I don't think he thought there was a worthwhile chance to call the timeout. So practically speaking the timeout in his mind would be fruitless. And I think he did the first thing on practicality, not "play for 60" like he claims.

I think Schiano was a bit insincere about it or at least didn't defend himself well.

 

[NinerSickness]

I found the video. Nobody dived at Eli's feet. They pushed the OL back into him.

 

[imac_21]

I can't find the video to double check, but everyone I've heard comment on this says that the Buccs did nothing illegal. They're all wrong?

NFL Game Center: Tampa Bay Buccaneers at New York Giants - 2012 Week 2

Just select the video titled "Tempers fly as game ends."

Diving at the QBs legs is a personal foul. I see at least 4 TB DL going low.

It's the Carson Palmer rule.

 

[imac_21]

I found the video. Nobody dived at Eli's feet. They pushed the OL back into him.

At least 4 guys dive forward. They have to go low if they're truly going for the ball.

 

[NinerSickness]

At least 4 guys dive forward. They have to go low if they're truly going for the ball.

They never made it past the OL. If it's illegal to go that low on the OL then it should have been a penalty, but they didn't dive at Eli's feet. They didn't have a chance to. Eli fell back when they pushed the center.

 

[Bemular]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing with Imac and I know what I said wasn't clear. His claim was correct.

I was saying I was okay with no timeout because I don't think Schiano did what he did for the reason he says he did. Affirming imac's questioning of Schiano's explanation. I know a turnover is possible on any play, even in the victory formation. By claiming to be playing for 60 minutes, that was a way of him saying that he thought there was still a chance. I don't think he thought there was a worthwhile chance to call the timeout. So practically speaking the timeout in his mind would be fruitless. And I think he did the first thing on practicality, not "play for 60" like he claims.

I think Schiano was a bit insincere about it or at least didn't defend himself well.

Got it - My guess is, we won't see Schiano do this again.

 

[MHSL82]

He coached at Rutgers for 11 seasons and forced 2 fumbles in his time there against the victory formation. On one of them, he was offside. The other, the offense recovered.

So, if it worked 0 times in 11 years at college, what makes you think there was a "reasonable, although remote" chance at it working (that sentence fragment contradicts itself to a ridiculous degree as it is. Reasonable yet remote?).

But let's break down how "reasonable" this was in terms of being successful. Had he called the timeout, there would have been 1 second left, now, let's imagine they forced the fumble. Some questions:

1. What are the odds of TB recovering the fumble?
2. What are the odds they recover the fumble in a position to return it?
3. What are the odds that 1 second doesn't tick off the clock during the scramble for the ball?
4. What are the odds of TB completing a 30 yard TD pass when NY knows they have to throw to the endzone?

Now, what are the odds of the fumble actually occurring? Well, considering the QB is giving himself up and is deemed to be down and the play over once his knee touches the ground, I would say those odds are extremely slim.

I guess that's why it never worked for him at Rutgers.

My bad. I thought there was more time on the clock. (I only knew it was less than the playclock.) I thought that if they recovered the hypothetical Manning fumble, there'd be time for another play. That's why I was ok with what happened but didn't think a timeout would help (for the same reasons as you just stated, not limited to time left). Then, I thought if they called timeout, there'd be less chance of them forcing the fumble due to the Giants now being aware of their intention not to simply allow the kneel down.

I thought there was more time on the clock so that Schiano's "play to 60" minutes idea and practical attempt to catch NY off-guard could co-exist. You're right, as I've never refuted, Schiano's claim is inconsistent.

And yes, I know that there was really low chance if any to recover and score. But as Bem said, anything can happen on that last play. I don't think Schiano believed in it enough to try it again.

 

[MHSL82]

My bad. I thought there was more time on the clock. (I only knew it was less than the playclock.) I thought that if they recovered the hypothetical Manning fumble, there'd be time for another play. That's why I was ok with what happened but didn't think a timeout would help (for the same reasons as you just stated, not limited to time left). Then, I thought if they called timeout, there'd be less chance of them forcing the fumble due to the Giants now being aware of their intention not to simply allow the kneel down.

I thought there was more time on the clock so that Schiano's "play to 60" minutes idea and practical attempt to catch NY off-guard could co-exist. You're right, as I've never refuted, Schiano's claim is inconsistent.

And yes, I know that there was really low chance if any to recover and score. But as Bem said, anything can happen on that last play. I don't think Schiano believed in it enough to try it again.

Man, re-read that and that is some closterfuck, as I realize that having more time would possibly be more reason to call the timeout, which I stated I was ok with him not calling. Disregard everything I said from the beginning. I don't believe Schiano and don't think anything he tried would have worked.

It is safe to say I hate this thread.

 

[Bemular]

Man, re-read that and that is some closterfuck, as I realize that having more time would possibly be more reason to call the timeout, which I stated I was ok with him not calling. Disregard everything I said from the beginning. I don't believe Schiano and don't think anything he tried would have worked.

It is safe to say I hate this thread.

That made me LMAO!

 

[Flyingiguana]

They never made it past the OL. If it's illegal to go that low on the OL then it should have been a penalty, but they didn't dive at Eli's feet. They didn't have a chance to. Eli fell back when they pushed the center.

snee said he took a helmet off his knee...

i've never seen that before and someone could have ended up injured. nothing but sore losers.

 

[beardown07]

Bush League.

Game was over. It was LITERALLY the last play of the game.

Nothing but sore losers.

 

[Kinzu]

Bush League.

Game was over. It was LITERALLY the last play of the game.

Nothing but sore losers.

All in Hindsight.

If they had caused the turnover and tied the game with a Touchdown on the next play everyone would be calling it genius and praising the Bucs for playing hard til the end, but because they didn't get the turnover it's bush league and out of line.

I personally hate watching a defense in the last few seconds with the game close not going after it. A QB kneel down should never mean lets just stand around and watch the clock. I am all for at the snap of the ball trying to throw a lineman back into the QB and hope you catch them off guard and force a mistake.

Now if it's a 2 possession game then just let it end, but if it's one possession and you have a chance to win or tie if you can get the ball then why not go for broke and do what you got to do? If there is still time on the clock you always have to believe you have a chance.

 

[JMedlock5186]

Yeah, Clyde, that's what I've seen. Faulk was *killing* Schiano last night......I mean, I ignore Deion and Irvin, but when Faulk says something I listen.

Did you see antonio Pierce former Giants Linebacker and Captain. He said, There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Schiano did.

 

[JMedlock5186]

Got it - My guess is, we won't see Schiano do this again.

I hope they do it everytime they get the chance. I played football you dont play 59 minutes and 45 seconds you play 60 minutes bottom line, you try to make things happens.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

I have always wondered why no team hasnt tried this before. You play to the game is over. You never know what kind of freak stuff can happen. As someone said before, why would the victory formation call for 2 backs behind the QB and another one lined up about 10-15 yards behind them if they werent sure anything could happen.

No problem here and wouldnt be opposed to it happening more often. Also somebody mentioned that injuries happen when players are off there guard and not playing 100%. Well the Giants should be playing 100% all the way to the end even in the victory formation.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Also with all that being said, I cant blame Coughlin for being upset. He has to defend his players there.

 

[Bemular]

I hope they do it everytime they get the chance. I played football you dont play 59 minutes and 45 seconds you play 60 minutes bottom line, you try to make things happens.

I'm sure most of us here played football son, so spare us your "59 minute and 45 second look at me I played football" bull shit. Furthermore, you don't play 60 minutes, you play until the final whistle and even that reasoning can be sliced and diced and debated.

My position on this issue is evenly divided and I don't have a big enough stake one way or the other to determine which side I am more in favor. But, judging from how TB played Sunday, I'm sure we'll get to see how Schiano reacts to this situation again and again before the final whistle of the season.

 

[Jikkle]

I don't like the move but I don't disagree with Schiano's doing it either since I do understand what he's trying to do.

The Bucs were a complete undisciplined mess under Morris so he's trying to change the culture, put in discipline, and get his players to play hard and not give up.

But I don't like the move mostly because odds are higher that not just the Giants players but your own players are going to get hurt than you being able to cause a fumble and than scoop and score it to have a chance to tie the game.

So I feel it's better to just concede defeat and move on to next week.

 

[MHSL82]

I hope they do it everytime they get the chance. I played football you dont play 59 minutes and 45 seconds you play 60 minutes bottom line, you try to make things happens.

I'm assuming you mean you hope they do it every time they are within 8 points, right?

 

[MHSL82]

I'm sure most of us here played football son, so spare us your "59 minute and 45 second look at me I played football" bull shit. Furthermore, you don't play 60 minutes, you play until the final whistle and even that reasoning can be sliced and diced and debated.

My position on this issue is evenly divided and I don't have a big enough stake one way or the other to determine which side I am more in favor. But, judging from how TB played Sunday, I'm sure we'll get to see how Schiano reacts to this situation again and again before the final whistle of the season.

I'm all over the place on both sides of the fence. I don't care about other teams, so while I don't want it done to us, I don't see that much wrong with others doing it to others. I don't think there is much chance, but I know that there is a chance at recovery. I'd be mad if they did it trailing by 9 or more because of the injury risk. But, I also know if someone did it trailing by nine, scored, on-side kicked, and scored again, we'd be calling them geniuses or applauding their effort. We'd also be chastising the kneelers for not being ready.

Bottom-line, build a 21 point lead with less than a play clock left! Simple.