SB Champions With No QB?

[NWPATSFAN]

He put up pretty good numbers in college though.

He wasnxt even the starter for all four years.

 

[johnson]

Sanchez was a liability and ultimately the reason they didn't win.

Hostetler was an expendable piece and not nearly as complete of a player as Wilson.

Dumb comparisons. Wilson has been one of the best QBs in the league since his rookie year. Sure, he has had great defenses, but to compare him to shitty QBs who needed to completely lean on their defenses in order to succeed is just weak, even for you.

I think the year they won the SB was clearly due to their defense. Some argue that could have been the best defense of all time. The running game was sick. And then you had RW...that year, he wasn't anything special and never had to make a play in the SB they won.

He did have to make a few in the one they lost and we know how that turned out.

 

[Southieinnc]

I think the year they won the SB was clearly due to their defense. Some argue that could have been the best defense of all time. The running game was sick. And then you had RW...that year, he wasn't anything special and never had to make a play in the SB they won.

He did have to make a few in the one they lost and we know how that turned out.

RW has been special since the day he hit the NFL. Saying anything else is a laugh.....

 

[johnson]

RW has been special since the day he hit the NFL. Saying anything else is a laugh.....

In 2012:

25th in Completions
23rd in Passing Yards
12th in Passing TDs
5th in QBR

In 2013:

19th in Completions
16th in Passing Yards
10th in Passing TDs
12th in QBR

I agree he's special now. His first two years I just don't consider that special as an individual QB performance. He was surrounded by elite players and didn't put up elite numbers. The youth argument is perfectly valid to defend it, but my point was in a vacuum, he wasn't in the same conversation as the truly special QBs at the time.

Peyton in 2012:
6th in Completions
6th in Passing Yards
3rd in Passing TDs
1st in QBR

That's more in the "special" category.

 

[SonnyCID]

I think the year they won the SB was clearly due to their defense. Some argue that could have been the best defense of all time. The running game was sick. And then you had RW...that year, he wasn't anything special and never had to make a play in the SB they won.

He did have to make a few in the one they lost and we know how that turned out.

Hahahaha... He didn't have to make any plays in the SB, but he did. He made a bunch. Even though the game was a blowout they still could have lost if he didn't show up and play great all day.

 

[SonnyCID]

In 2012:

25th in Completions
23rd in Passing Yards
12th in Passing TDs
5th in QBR

In 2013:

19th in Completions
16th in Passing Yards
10th in Passing TDs
12th in QBR

I agree he's special now. His first two years I just don't consider that special as an individual QB performance. He was surrounded by elite players and didn't put up elite numbers. The youth argument is perfectly valid to defend it, but my point was in a vacuum, he wasn't in the same conversation as the truly special QBs at the time.

Peyton in 2012:
6th in Completions
6th in Passing Yards
3rd in Passing TDs
1st in QBR

That's more in the "special" category.

Is that QB rating or ESPN qbr?

And efficiency wins games, not volume stats.

 

[johnson]

Hahahaha... He didn't have to make any plays in the SB, but he did. He made a bunch. Even though the game was a blowout they still could have lost if he didn't show up and play great all day.

That's simply false. It was a blowout generated by the Defense putting on an overwhelming show of domination. The game started off with a safety. More defensive plays set up two FGs after that when RW couldn't generate plays into the end zone. An INT return for a TD and a KO return for a TD and it's 29-0.

The QB was barely noticed.

Weird I have to tell a Seahawks fan how that game went.

RW just had to make sure he didn't throw like 5 pick sixes in a row...which is he did very well.

 

[johnson]

Is that QB rating or ESPN qbr?

And efficiency wins games, not volume stats.

The site I got it from was Pro Football Reference.

Just pulled some basic stats to make the point. Not intended to get into deeper points about efficiency, because the next logic counter is that QB efficiency has to be put into a context of your team defense, special teams, etc.

An elite D, special teams and running game is going to result in just being "efficient" winning games just fine. Other QBs don't have the luxury and have to put their teams on their backs. Some do it fairly regularly, some can't.

 

[SonnyCID]

That's simply false. It was a blowout generated by the Defense putting on an overwhelming show of domination. The game started off with a safety. More defensive plays set up two FGs after that when RW couldn't generate plays into the end zone. An INT return for a TD and a KO return for a TD and it's 29-0.

The QB was barely noticed.

Weird I have to tell a Seahawks fan how that game went.

RW just had to make sure he didn't throw like 5 pick sixes in a row...which is he did very well.

Dude if you don't think a shitty QB can ruin a great defensive performance, you need to watch more football.

 

[SonnyCID]

The site I got it from was Pro Football Reference.

Just pulled some basic stats to make the point. Not intended to get into deeper points about efficiency, because the next logic counter is that QB efficiency has to be put into a context of your team defense, special teams, etc.

An elite D, special teams and running game is going to result in just being "efficient" winning games just fine. Other QBs don't have the luxury and have to put their teams on their backs. Some do it fairly regularly, some can't.

That would be a fallacy with no evidence to back it up. Ask Ravens fans about how much their defense made QBs more efficient in the 2000s.

The fact is that efficient QBs are good QBs. Combine big play ability with top tier efficiency and you get great QBs.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I think the year they won the SB was clearly due to their defense. Some argue that could have been the best defense of all time. The running game was sick. And then you had RW...that year, he wasn't anything special and never had to make a play in the SB they won.

He did have to make a few in the one they lost and we know how that turned out.

You way under estimate the abilities of RW.

 

[johnson]

Dude if you don't think a shitty QB can ruin a great defensive performance, you need to watch more football.

I never said he was shitty. But it would sure help your argument if I did.

 

[SonnyCID]

I never said he was shitty. But it would sure help your argument if I did.

Never said you did. Way to completely miss the point.

 

[eaglesnut]

This brings up an interesting question I'm curious about: has any qb ever had a middling college football career and gone on to be good in the NFL?

Tom Brady. The greatest QB in the universe.

 

[Tech_God]

Let's not forget that he was handcuffed by the coaching staff which stunted his stats the first two seasons. The second half of last season was where the training wheels were FINALLY taken off.

In 2012:

25th in Completions
23rd in Passing Yards
12th in Passing TDs
5th in QBR

In 2013:

19th in Completions
16th in Passing Yards
10th in Passing TDs
12th in QBR

I agree he's special now. His first two years I just don't consider that special as an individual QB performance. He was surrounded by elite players and didn't put up elite numbers. The youth argument is perfectly valid to defend it, but my point was in a vacuum, he wasn't in the same conversation as the truly special QBs at the time.

Peyton in 2012:
6th in Completions
6th in Passing Yards
3rd in Passing TDs
1st in QBR

That's more in the "special" category.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's simply false. It was a blowout generated by the Defense putting on an overwhelming show of domination. The game started off with a safety. More defensive plays set up two FGs after that when RW couldn't generate plays into the end zone. An INT return for a TD and a KO return for a TD and it's 29-0.

The QB was barely noticed.

Weird I have to tell a Seahawks fan how that game went.

RW just had to make sure he didn't throw like 5 pick sixes in a row...which is he did very well.

The Seahawks never get to that Super Bowl without Wilson's play in the NFC championship game.

 

[johnson]

Let's not forget that he was handcuffed by the coaching staff which stunted his stats the first two seasons. The second half of last season was where the training wheels were FINALLY taken off.

I'm not sure hand-cuffed is the right word. Was probably a sound decision in that he wasn't ready to have the training wheels taken off and with that team...they only needed an average QB performance most games.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm not sure hand-cuffed is the right word. Was probably a sound decision in that he wasn't ready to have the training wheels taken off and with that team...they only needed an average QB performance most games.

We knew the Hawks had something special in RW. Go back to his rookie season where he should have gotten credit for the comeback over ATL in the playoffs only to see the defense piss it away. To say average is laughable.

 

[Southieinnc]

I agree he's special......
.

Russell Wilson is special. Pedestrian numbers early in his career are more about coaching - successful coaching - stay tuned!!!!!!

 

[Rockinkuwait]

That's simply false. It was a blowout generated by the Defense putting on an overwhelming show of domination. The game started off with a safety. More defensive plays set up two FGs after that when RW couldn't generate plays into the end zone. An INT return for a TD and a KO return for a TD and it's 29-0.

The QB was barely noticed.

Weird I have to tell a Seahawks fan how that game went.

RW just had to make sure he didn't throw like 5 pick sixes in a row...which is he did very well.

Actually a Sweezy false start and an Unger hold is why Seattle puttered out on those two field goal posessions. But hey, why watch the game and see the reality right?

Granted on those two drives Russell converted four 3rd down throws to get them into FG range.

5 of the Seahawks first 6 drives they put points on the board. The last one he was in for they went for it on 4th down in run the clock out mode with the game over. Wilson got a 1st down on 7 of the 9 3rd down throws he had in that game and big ones on every scoring drive.

On Seattle's 5 scoring drives... Lynch had 12 carries for 16 yards.

Russell played extremely well. Of course it was overshadowed by how bad Denver's offense was/how great seattle's D was.


As for him being special???

best TD:INT rate as a rookie?
Most passing TD's for a rookie?
Most playoff passing yards for a rookie?
Most wins in first two seasons?
Most wins in first two seasons including playoffs?
First QB to throw for 300 and rush for 100 in a game?
Most consecutive games with 3+ TD's and no INT's?
2nd highest passer rating in NFL history?
First and only QB with QB rating over 128 in 5 straight games?
First and only QB with 4000 pass yards, 30+ TD's and 500 rush yards in a season?

Agree he wasn't elite straight out of the gate, but he was certainly looking special at that point. You bring up Peyton Manning. You could tell he was special his first two years...