Sam Howell

[j_y19]

Yeah, perplexed sums it up pretty well!

On one hand you define franchise as..." The guy who can take us to a Super Bowl and have a chance to win it year in and year out."

IMO that's not Howell but he can be the QB on a team built to win it likely once, not the other way around. However, mox nix (it doesn't matter) my perspective and focus on what's meant by your perspective... "Let's see what we have with him for the rest of the season." Or as others are saying (not sure if you're in this camp) "What we have with an improved OL."

Either of those positions questions your definition of franchise.In fact, they aren't congruent with that definition.

This is capped off with a zero commitment to making every attempt, to, at long last, take any and all of the necessary steps to finally have an answer at QB. Just a commitment to "see what we have."

(I'll post something else addressing the "see what we have" perspective.)

What’s your definition of a franchise QB?

 

[PDay8810]

IMO that's not Howell but he can be the QB on a team built to win it likely once, not the other way around.

Sorry but this type of statement is where you and I become polor opposites. I assume most of you were fans when Gibbs roomed the sideline.

Winning a championship is the goal. Statements regarding multiple should never be discussed by Cowboy OR Redskin fans.

Deaf Ears Kinda Thing For Me

 

[Stymietee]

Sorry but this type of statement is where you and I become polor opposites. I assume most of you were fans when Gibbs roomed the sideline.

Winning a championship is the goal. Statements regarding multiple should never be discussed by Cowboy OR Redskin fans.

Deaf Ears Kinda Thing For Me

Not a problem, but if you think about it Jerrah isn't thinking long-term primarily because his time is short and he'd like to go out with one more in his pocket, and Washington isn't thinking about their product at all. That said, what's one of the first questions asked of an SB winner? If you answered can they do it again the following year...you're a winner!

To that end, every team in the NFL must look towards multiple SB titles and if they aren't in this business to do that, then perhaps it's time to sell their franchises. I make no exceptions for Dallas or Washington.

 

[PDay8810]

no exceptions we can agree to.

 

[Stymietee]

What’s your definition of a franchise QB?

I'll not only answer your question but will in the following compare and contrast differences in NFL-level QBs.

A Starting Quarterback (QB) and a Franchise QB are both crucial roles in a football team, but they differ in several aspects:

A starting QB is the first-string guy who starts the game for a team. They are usually guys who have about a 60% completion rate. They are heavily reliant upon the talents of others to win games and aren’t typically masters of the position in ways that enhance weaknesses in others. Non-franchise starters while required to exhibit leadership qualities aren’t typically players that a team builds their long-term offensive strategy around. Paying big money on a second contract becomes a subject of controversy because teams can’t afford to do without the stability that he gives them, and aren’t willing to overpay for stability when championships are the goal, and paying him hinders that.


On the other hand, a Franchise QB is seen as the face of the franchise because they have unique talents that enhance both the efficiency of an offense and the contributions of weaker less talented players. He is the cornerstone of a team’s offense and is expected to lead the team to high levels of success over a long period of time. They are expected to have a consistent completion rate above 63% (actually 62.9) and demonstrate actual leadership and maturity early in their careers that garners a level of confidence from everyone that essentially says, “With this guy as long as there’s time on the clock the team has a chance to win any game.” Unlike the general starter, entire offensive strategies are built around his talents, and championship expectations rise. It is because of his unique abilities that football organizations rarely balk at paying him big money and have no interest in exploring alternatives.


All Franchise QBs are Starting QBs, but not all Starting QBs are Franchise QBs. The latter is a more prestigious role that carries additional responsibilities and expectations.

 

[Stymietee]

For some people on the outside looking in they have to be convinced that a good starting QB isn’t the franchise guy, for others it is simply a matter of knowing the difference when they see it.


Check out this interesting comparison…

I wanted to find a player with close to or the same number of games played as Howell and contrast how this player is seen by most people with how many of you are seeing Howell now. It was difficult until I realized that there's ONLY one player who meets that criteria AND is seen as a franchise (elite) QB right now.

Just to make sure that there's no disagreement here, this post is for those of you who want to see more of or want to see how Howell does with better players around him. My initial thought was to compare him to Joe Burrow who had a much worse Offensive line around him starting out but almost everyone saw him as "that guy" a few games into his career. However, my goal here is somewhat more immediate and something that can be proven via stats and a convincing visual comparison. (Knowing it when you see it)

The following graphic compares two QBs who have played a similar number of games.

One of these guys, is, by your admissions and standards needing more in order to see if indeed he is "that guy."

The other is being hailed as "that guy" already and there are few questions about his being the unquestioned leader and QB of his team now and in the near future.

 

[skinsdad62]

Quarterback Sam Howell completed 12-of-23 passes for 123 yards and threw an interception. He added rushed four times for 21 yards and two rushing touchdowns. It is the first time in Howell's career he has had multiple rushing touchdowns in a single game.
Howell (335) passed Jason Campbell (327 in 2009) for the fourth-most completions in a single season in franchise history.
Howell (243) passed Joe Theismann (234 in 1983), Jason Campbell (236 in 2009) and Sammy Baugh (240 in 1937) for the eighth-most rushing yards among quarterbacks in a single season in franchise history.
Howell rushed for his fifth touchdown of the season. He has moved into a tie with Kirk Cousins (five in 2015) for the second-most rushing touchdowns by a Washington quarterback in a single season. The franchise record is held by Robert Griffin III who rushed for seven touchdowns in 2012.
Howell is the fifth quarterback in franchise history to rush for multiple touchdowns in a single game, joining Kirk Cousins, Robert Griffin III, Mark Rypien and Norm Snead.
Howell is the first quarterback since Josh Allen (2018-2019) to have six or more rushing touchdowns in their first 14 career games.
Quarterback Jacoby Brissett took his first snaps as a Washington Commander.
Running Back Brian Robinson Jr. rushed seven times for 53 yards. His 53 rushing yards in the first half are the most by a Washington player in the opening half of a game this season.
Running Back Antonio Gibson had 10 carries for 35 yards. He also added four receptions for 37 yards.
Wide Receiver Curtis Samuel recorded four receptions for 65 yards (16.3 avg).

 

[deanpet21]

For some people on the outside looking in they have to be convinced that a good starting QB isn’t the franchise guy, for others it is simply a matter of knowing the difference when they see it.


Check out this interesting comparison…

I wanted to find a player with close to or the same number of games played as Howell and contrast how this player is seen by most people with how many of you are seeing Howell now. It was difficult until I realized that there's ONLY one player who meets that criteria AND is seen as a franchise (elite) QB right now.

Just to make sure that there's no disagreement here, this post is for those of you who want to see more of or want to see how Howell does with better players around him. My initial thought was to compare him to Joe Burrow who had a much worse Offensive line around him starting out but almost everyone saw him as "that guy" a few games into his career. However, my goal here is somewhat more immediate and something that can be proven via stats and a convincing visual comparison. (Knowing it when you see it)

The following graphic compares two QBs who have played a similar number of games.

One of these guys, is, by your admissions and standards needing more in order to see if indeed he is "that guy."

The other is being hailed as "that guy" already and there are few questions about his being the unquestioned leader and QB of his team now and in the near future.

View attachment 347717

look at the int's. wow

 

[Stymietee]

look at the int's. wow

Burrows
Mahomes
Herbert
Watson
Rodgers
Jackson
Stroud
In their first year, you know it when you see it! all others are dependents!

 

[deanpet21]

Burrows
Mahomes
Herbert
Watson
Rodgers
Jackson
Stroud
In their first year, you know it when you see it! all others are dependents!

i thought you wanted Howell gone?

 

[Stymietee]

i thought you wanted Howell gone?

When did I say that? Let me be clear...
I believe that every young QB must sit before starting, especially those who don't immediately possess or haven't demonstrated abilities far above the current QB on a given team. To that end, I am convinced that drafting a QB this year still puts Washington in the position to start Howell in 2024.
If you agree with me, then the rebuild will take anywhere from 2 to 3 years, and at the 2-year point or sooner a decision on paying Howell will have to be made, hindering that rebuild. Upgrading at QB or potentially doing so gives you options.

1. It's an upgrade or potentially one.

2. It extends the rookie QB deal two years beyond where Howell's current deal does. This helps in the rebuild tremendously.

3. It buys time to determine if Howell is the guy vs the rookie and if Howell wins out another option moving the rookie... (The Cowboys sent a fourth-round pick to San Francisco for Lance) If the rookie wins out another option moving Howell... (Kansas City got third-round pick and cornerback Kendall Fuller in exchange for Alex Smith)

 

[deanpet21]

When did I say that? Let me be clear...
I believe that every young QB must sit before starting, especially those who don't immediately possess or haven't demonstrated abilities far above the current QB on a given team. To that end, I am convinced that drafting a QB this year still puts Washington in the position to start Howell in 2024.
If you agree with me, then the rebuild will take anywhere from 2 to 3 years, and at the 2-year point or sooner a decision on paying Howell will have to be made, hindering that rebuild. Upgrading at QB or potentially doing so gives you options.

1. It's an upgrade or potentially one.

2. It extends the rookie QB deal two years beyond where Howell's current deal does. This helps in the rebuild tremendously.

3. It buys time to determine if Howell is the guy vs the rookie and if Howell wins out another option moving the rookie... (The Cowboys sent a fourth-round pick to San Francisco for Lance) If the rookie wins out another option moving Howell... (Kansas City got third-round pick and cornerback Kendall Fuller in exchange for Alex Smith)

do you want a QB in round 1 this year?

 

[Stymietee]

do you want a QB in round 1 this year?

Yup! Absolutely!
My top choices are Penix or Daniels, (Williams is going first) not because I've done a lot of research and I believe that they are the best of the bunch but apparently because I'm a racist.

 

[duke1861]

Yup! Absolutely!
My top choices are Penix or Daniels, (Williams is going first) not because I've done a lot of research and I believe that they are the best of the bunch but apparently because I'm a racist.

I think we need to take a qb in round 1 as well.

I have made up my mind now.

 

[deanpet21]

Yup! Absolutely!
My top choices are Penix or Daniels, (Williams is going first) not because I've done a lot of research and I believe that they are the best of the bunch but apparently because I'm a racist.

Phenix and Daniels are top 5 picks? depends on what happens with the FO and coach too.

 

[Stymietee]

I think we need to take a qb in round 1 as well.

I have made up my mind now.

Interesting!!!
I'm sitting here still considering the choice between OL and QB (admittedly leaning toward QB) so, what's changed your mind?

 

[duke1861]

Interesting!!!
I'm sitting here still considering the choice between OL and QB (admittedly leaning toward QB) so, what's changed your mind?

I don't think Howell is it.

I like him, but I am not sold on him. I think this team needs an identity. Howell is regressing and his decision making is highly concerning.

 

[Stymietee]

Phenix and Daniels are top 5 picks? depends on what happens with the FO and coach too.

Both are definite upgrades over Howell IMO (you never know how badly a QB will be handled or surrounded/ not surrounded with talent in the NFL)

Penix is an assassin

Daniels is a game-changer

Neither of which we've had on this team since Sonny or outside of 2012. (Griffin)

Point is... you have to get "That guy" at QB and to do that you have to get your FO and coaching staff correct.

 

[deanpet21]

Both are definite upgrades over Howell IMO (you never know how badly a QB will be handled or surrounded/ not surrounded with talent in the NFL)

Penix is an assassin

Daniels is a game-changer

Neither of which we've had on this team since Sonny or outside of 2012. (Griffin)

Point is... you have to get "That guy" at QB and to do that you have to get your FO and coaching staff correct.

right. I didnt know Penix and daniels were ranked that high

 

[skinsdad62]

Stick with Howell and forget about the shiny new toys that are overhyped .
Howell is regressing because the team is quitting s and he has to do everything