Saints self destructing.....

[flamingrey]

Smith's TD/INT ratio was 3.4, good for second in the league behind Rodgers, who had a ridiculous 7.5...other notables

Brady 3.25
Romo 3.1
Stafford 2.56
Brees 3.28

If I had to pick an important number as a guage of quarterbacking effectiveness, not many would be more important than this number....

That is true when comparing 2 players with the same role. Smith is around 30th in the league in pass attempts per game and 17th in ypa despite being around 10th in completion %. Hence, its a run predicated offense designed to protect the QB by only attempting short passes. Obviously he won't have many interceptions. And lucky for him he has a great ballhawking defense and great run game that can get him to the other side of the field into acoring position. Lends to a great TD/INT ratio. You absolutely cannot compare that to a player in a pass heavy offense. And that's evidenced by the players he's ahead all of whom are much much better and are actually relied on in the offense. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

There are probably close to 20 QB's in the league that could do better in that offense. It's almost QB heaven.

 

[vancelot23]

Carson Palmer isn't one of them.

 

[bengaldoug]

That is true when comparing 2 players with the same role. Smith is around 30th in the league in pass attempts per game and 17th in ypa despite being around 10th in completion %. Hence, its a run predicated offense designed to protect the QB by only attempting short passes. Obviously he won't have many interceptions. And lucky for him he has a great ballhawking defense and great run game that can get him to the other side of the field into acoring position. Lends to a great TD/INT ratio. You absolutely cannot compare that to a player in a pass heavy offense. And that's evidenced by the players he's ahead all of whom are much much better and are actually relied on in the offense. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

There are probably close to 20 QB's in the league that could do better in that offense. It's almost QB heaven.

I do understand your point, though I believe 20 is an exaggeration....of the quarterbacks rated below Smith in passer rating, I would rather have Roethlisberger, Rivers, Cutler, and Newton....that's all....several others are comparable, but separating comparable players is an exercise in futility imo....as a matter of fact, Ben's rookie season, where he threw under 300 passes, is probably the best comparison to Smith's year this season, and Ben's TD/INT ratio was only 1.55.....

 

[flamingrey]

I do understand your point, though I believe 20 is an exaggeration....of the quarterbacks rated below Smith in passer rating, I would rather have Roethlisberger, Rivers, Cutler, and Newton....that's all....several others are comparable, but separating comparable players is an exercise in futility imo....as a matter of fact, Ben's rookie season, where he threw under 300 passes, is probably the best comparison to Smith's year this season, and Ben's TD/INT ratio was only 1.55.....

Without looking at the list, assuming these guys are lower, Id take Eli, flacco, dalton, Carson, and I'm sure there are more. Alex smith is a game manager at beat, and yes if they have game winning drives. You put a competent QBb ehind ceneter - let alone the fact that they could actually open up the playbook and make it scarier - and the game isn't close in the end. +4 in turnovers, it was a pretty pathetic display on offense up until the last 5 min. They almost became the 1st team to lose a game +5 in turnovers since 1982.

Furthermore, you put smith on, for instance, the Bengals and theyre much worse because there's no game managing going on here. He'd actually be forced to make plays and a much higher rate than he does now. I liken it to the people that thought Orton was a top QB a few years back. Game managers stats are mostly fools gold and eventually are exposed to what they really are.

 

[flamingrey]

And btw, interception rate (per pass) is a better measure, though id expect smith is in the tops in that category as well but not as high. But same argument fits here as I layed out for TD/INT ratio.

 

[bengaldoug]

Eli is higher in passer rating, and yes I would prefer him.....and would the Bengals be worse with Harbaugh/Smith over Dalton/Lewis? I think not.....the coach is at least as important as the quarterback imo....having Lewis as the coach may well prevent Dalton from reaching his potential.....Harbaugh is the reason that Smith now has a good chance to reach his potential.....Oh, and you're welcome to Flacco...the Ravens win despite him, imo......

 

[flamingrey]

Eli is higher in passer rating, and yes I would prefer him.....and would the Bengals be worse with Harbaugh/Smith over Dalton/Lewis? I think not.....the coach is at least as important as the quarterback imo....having Lewis as the coach may well prevent Dalton from reaching his potential.....Harbaugh is the reason that Smith now has a good chance to reach his potential.....Oh, and you're welcome to Flacco...the Ravens win despite him, imo......

Aren't you making my point here?

Only way you take Smith is if Harbaugh comes with him. We aren't comparing coach/QB duos, we're comparing QBs. The stats Smith put up are inflated due to the system he's in. Smith with Marvin would suck or at the very least be worse than Dalton with Marvin. Why? Because Dalton is a better QB. Dalton in SF with Harbaugh would be better than Smith with Harbaugh because Dalton is a better QB.

Just as much as the Ravens win despite Flacco, the Niners win despite Smith. Without 5 turnovers last night combined from the defense and ST's, the game isn't even close. The fact that it was is a testament to Smith's inability to move the ball with any consistency or make any real plays. And while Flacco makes more mistakes, he also makes more plays and has the luxury of going up against Pittsburgh and Cincinnati's defense twice a year. Smith's defense, ST, receiving corps, and o-line is better than Flacco's. The run game is a wash. All things equal, Flacco is the better QB.

 

[vancelot23]

Smith is tops in the NFL in INT per pass

 

[flamingrey]

Yeah, no kidding. Anything else you want to mimic?

 

[vancelot23]

Just letting you know since you said he was probably not as high in that category you sensitive dick. I know your panties are in a bunch since you were proven wrong in front of everybody, but there's no reason to be an asshole.

 

[vancelot23]

I had people threatening to leave the board because of Bip insulting people. You're no better than Bip. I will delete all posts in which you call people stupid. I suspect you won't have a single post left since that is the only way you make arguments for yourself.

 

[flamingrey]

top 10? don't know about that, he could give his top 10 spot up to Newton, Rivers, or maybe even Vick. On the other hand, I'd still rather have him than Palmer at this point. you don't mess with a 13-3 formula. Ocho's tweet says it all when he essentially compares Brady to Palmer/Kitna describing a night and day difference in their leadership ability. Palmer is a master of one and done playoff runs. good for him, even Andy Dalton can do that. whoopie doo!

Either you suck at reading or you purposely put your own twist on the tweet.

“I’ve been around a lot of really competitive people and I’ve had Carson Palmer and Jon Kitna as my quarterbacks. You know that quarterbacks are a little different. They have to act a little different because of the position. But Tom has taken that to a whole different level.”

He called Carson and Kitna "really competitive people" and used that as a barometer to show what level Brady is at which is "a whole different level".

Leadership ability? LOL. Heck, he didn't even say they weren't competitive.

Let me ask you, do you hate Carson that much that you would make something up hoping nobody would know any better?

 

[flamingrey]

I had people threatening to leave the board because of Bip insulting people. You're no better than Bip. I will delete all posts in which you call people stupid. I suspect you won't have a single post left since that is the only way you make arguments for yourself.

Aww, did your feelings get hurt? And that from the guy that in the previous post called me a "sensitive dick" and an "asshole". Hypocrite much?

I'll soften it up for you:

Just letting you know since you said he was probably not as high in that category you sensitive dick. I know your panties are in a bunch since you were proven wrong in front of everybody, but there's no reason to be an asshole.

Realize the point in that post was only to state INT per pass is a better measure than INT/TD ratio and any following comment regarding Smith was to show I wasn't only saying it due to this debate because of which where Smith actually ranks doesn't matter; hence, "he's probably tops...". I'll [make it easier for you to understand] next time.

And LOL @ being proven wrong. Doug is the only one to provide any sort of decent argument. The rest of you [have not shown any ability to] understand the intricacies of QB statistics and how they relate to what's going on on the field, let alone make a decent argument.

 

[vancelot23]

I understand things fine. Smith has better statistics than Palmer. YPA is meaningless to me. INT/attempt, TD/INT ratio, are both better indicators of QB success than YPA or yards total.

 

[flamingrey]

Nowhere have I used YPA as a single measure for a QB like you're attempting to do with INT/attempt and TD/INT ratio. Nonetheless, those are only useful as advanced statistics when you have 2 or more "like" QB's with similar statistics and similar situations.

 

[vancelot23]

Lol. Says you- the president of the Carson Palmer fan club.

 

[flamingrey]

As usual, a compelling argument...

Me-thinks your disagreement has more to do with Carson than Smith's actual abilities. Pretty pathetic...

 

[vancelot23]

Now who can't read? I never said Smith was a great QB. I said he had a great year. My poin was that he's better than Palmer, thus the comparison to Palmer. Better get that hooked on phonics CD out again.

 

[flamingrey]

LOL, find where I said you said Smith was a great QB. Speaking of hooked on phonics...

So this is about Carson. Here I am debating Smith's worth as a QB, and you guys can't get Carson out of your head and are basing your opinion of him based on a baseline of Carson. As I said, pathetic...

 

[vancelot23]

You're the one who said the niners would be better with Palmer than Smith. Lol