Russell Wilson and Kaepernick

[purguy12]

LOL

Yep, the moment your guy's team plays well enough to give him time to throw = it's over.

Incredible analysis on your part.

Doesn't even make sense.

 

[purguy12]

your opinion on Kaep over Wilson is fine, no problem here. I don't feel Wilson is playing well either, but the fact they're in the West will continue the discussion.

last season while this board seemed to already anoint Kaep 'franchise', my feeling was give him more games first? granted, didn't see a reason why he wouldn't continue playing well, but alas he hasn't. he has shown good stuff in "spots", but overall this season my opinion is 'average'.

yes, Kaep HAS proven he can play well in the play-offs, certainly a positive for him. again, glad we have him over Wilson.

Yes u are right because they play in the same division. Very true but.

His season so far has been like this….. Great start then came out flat, now picking up steam and the last 2 games scary good.

/\ / Thats how the chart looks right now. He is back on his way up. Last 2 games have been nice.
\ __/
\ /
\/

 

[purguy12]

well the chart didn't work out when I posted it. Oh well. Plus 30 points in the last 5 games. Wilson only 2 all season never back to back. that alone shows Kap is playing a lot better. 49ers offense is clicking and a lot of credit goes to Kap. Seattle Offense not so much.

 

[deep9er]

Yes u are right because they play in the same division. Very true but.

His season so far has been like this….. Great start then came out flat, now picking up steam and the last 2 games scary good.

/\ / Thats how the chart looks right now. He is back on his way up. Last 2 games have been nice.
\ __/
\ /
\/

yes, he has shown more 'life' last two weeks, so we'll take it as good sign.

i'll believe Roman a little bit here, the beginning of the offense 'peaking'.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

It isn't really fair to say either one is better because we've had such a small sample size so far. I'd wait until after the season because they are playing similarly this year and perceptions could change on a weekly basis right now.

If their play simply must be dissected, IMO Colin played better last year, but the fact is so far Wilson is having the statistically better 2013 season in almost every possible stat, except that Wilson has taken almost twice as many sacks as Colin with 27 vs 15, but much of that has to be attributed to Seattle's patchwork O-Line.

Where Colin is ahead of Wilson the stats are very close, with Colin averaging 8.0 YPA vs Hussle's 7.9, and Colin having 1 more throw for 40+ yards. Colin and Hustle have an equal number of turnovers (fumbles + INTs), but the Hustla has 3 more TOTAL fumbles that stayed Seattle ball.

No matter what, though, both QBs have to play better if the NFC West is going to be represented in the Super Bowl, because neither is playing lights out like both teams believe THEIR QB can.

 

[purguy12]

It isn't really fair to say either one is better because we've had such a small sample size so far. I'd wait until after the season because they are playing similarly this year and perceptions could change on a weekly basis right now.

If their play simply must be dissected, IMO Colin played better last year, but the fact is so far Wilson is having the statistically better 2013 season in almost every possible stat, except that Wilson has taken almost twice as many sacks as Colin with 27 vs 15, but much of that has to be attributed to Seattle's patchwork O-Line.

Where Colin is ahead of Wilson the stats are very close, with Colin averaging 8.0 YPA vs Hussle's 7.9, and Colin having 1 more throw for 40+ yards. Colin and Hustle have an equal number of turnovers (fumbles + INTs), but the Hustla has 3 more TOTAL fumbles that stayed Seattle ball.

No matter what, though, both QBs have to play better if the NFC West is going to be represented in the Super Bowl, because neither is playing lights out like both teams believe THEIR QB can.

Yes stats its close but Eye test its easy to see. +30pts in 5 games in a row says enough. Points is what matters and wins. Seattle has the wins but not because of Wilson. 3 Defensive wins for seattle. 2 pick 6's to win the game and a goal line stop with time running out. Not to mention Wilson has 46 yrds at half time against the Rams.

I do agree that its a long season and things can change.

 

[whysies]

Yes stats its close but Eye test its easy to see. +30pts in 5 games in a row says enough. Points is what matters and wins. Seattle has the wins but not because of Wilson. 3 Defensive wins for seattle. 2 pick 6's to win the game and a goal line stop with time running out. Not to mention Wilson has 46 yrds at half time against the Rams.

I do agree that its a long season and things can change.

But when the 49ers get a pick six or a defensive player returns a fumble for a touchdown Kap should get credit for that? By your logic Kap is responsible for the 30+ points per game and those defensive points do go toward the final score after all...

It honestly feels like you're just playing the dumb myopic fan troll card right now. Lets leave that to the Seahawks fans. 49ers fans (and this board especially) are better than that. With one glaring exception...

 

[purguy12]

But when the 49ers get a pick six or a defensive player returns a fumble for a touchdown Kap should get credit for that? By your logic Kap is responsible for the 30+ points per game and those defensive points do go toward the final score after all...

It honestly feels like you're just playing the dumb myopic fan troll card right now. Lets leave that to the Seahawks fans. 49ers fans (and this board especially) are better than that. With one glaring exception...

Big difference from defense scoring Tds in blow outs and Seattle getting pick 6's to win games because the offense cant score. talk about someone not having a clue. No Kap shouldn't get all the credit for scoring 30+ but he is the QB that makes things happen. Credit goes to the whole team. Its a team sport.

Don't be mad because im stating facts. I guess you don't watch a lot of football. its been clear that the Kap has been better as of late. Its easy to see.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

This discussion is far from over. I'm not sold on Wilson as elite - nor Kap just yet - but he's working with an OL that is not very good at all. Now, I think Hawks fans and Wilson supporters make too much of the OL struggles. Wilson almost never hits his back foot and makes a throw. He is the furthest thing from a rhythm passer that I can recall seeing. He's at his best when the play breaks down. He holds the ball longer than most QBs, particularly considering that he knows he doesn't have time. But it's tough to get a good read on him with both OTs out. And he has a way of making plays.

I agree Kap's upside is higher, but I think Wilson is still further along in terms of reading the field. His ability to find and hit open receivers while sprinting around the backfield is remarkable. Kap has been better from the pocket, and lately dangerous on the move, but he hasn't been able to do what Wilson has in this regard.

 

[whysies]

Big difference from defense scoring Tds in blow outs and Seattle getting pick 6's to win games because the offense cant score. talk about someone not having a clue. No Kap shouldn't get all the credit for scoring 30+ but he is the QB that makes things happen. Credit goes to the whole team. Its a team sport.

Don't be mad because im stating facts. I guess you don't watch a lot of football. its been clear that the Kap has been better as of late. Its easy to see.

If its so clear that Kap is better than why are you the only one arguing that point? Right now Kap is Alex Smith with wheels. And that's fine, we are winning. But he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination. Playing like an Alex Smith who can run is almost never going to make a QB head and shoulders above any other proficient QB (which Wilson undoubtedly is). When comparing the two, Kap not only fails the numbers test, there's also very little that suggests he clearly passes the eyeball test.

If you want evidence of the absurdity of your argument, look no further than the fact that you have me making a case for Wilson (who I hate as a player because he is a Seahawk and who I don't particularly like as a QB because I think he is a limited midget who has reached his ceiling) over Kap (who I love not only because he is a 49er but also because of his immense potential as a QB). If you want to say or think that Kap is better that's fine but Christ man, at least make an intelligent, consistent argument.

At this point I'm choosing to believe this is just some schtick that you're adopting because I would hate to think that a regular on this board would be so myopic and fan-boyeyish

 

[purguy12]

I guess you haven't watched a 49er game in awhile. Its ok when you start watching them again then come talk.

Both QBs are good, neither is Payton Manning but between the 2 Kap has past the Eye test where Wilson has took a step back. Im not the only saying this about Wilson. most experts are saying the same. Its common sense.

 

[whysies]

I guess you haven't watched a 49er game in awhile. Its ok when you start watching them again then come talk.

Both QBs are good, neither is Payton Manning but between the 2 Kap has past the Eye test where Wilson has took a step back. Im not the only saying this about Wilson. most experts are saying the same. Its common sense.

Oh, ok, so it is just a schtick. Good, that makes me feel better. Carry on.

 

[threelittleturds]

I guess you haven't watched a 49er game in awhile. Its ok when you start watching them again then come talk.

Both QBs are good, neither is Payton Manning but between the 2 Kap has past the Eye test where Wilson has took a step back. Im not the only saying this about Wilson. most experts are saying the same. Its common sense.

In my opinion that is not the correct way to evaluate any player. NFL seasons have ups and downs for teams and players. With young QBs the ups and downs sometimes come in quick bursts. Just Kap alone, started the season on an up note and then swung down for a few games and now he is back up and playing well. Wilson has been up and down and up and down this year too, right now he is just down... no big deal, I'm pretty sure he will bounce back. That is the life of a young QB in the NFL.

This is the same mistake that a lot of the Seatrolls from ESPN take when trolling this thread. Trying to say that when Wilson is up and Kap is down, that is the true difference. Don't do that, don't be that guy.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If its so clear that Kap is better than why are you the only one arguing that point? Right now Kap is Alex Smith with wheels. And that's fine, we are winning. But he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination. Playing like an Alex Smith who can run is almost never going to make a QB head and shoulders above any other proficient QB (which Wilson undoubtedly is). When comparing the two, Kap not only fails the numbers test, there's also very little that suggests he clearly passes the eyeball test.

Kap fails the numbers test when you compare the most basic of numbers. Digging deeper into the stats, it's closer. Some examples:

Kap has been better at finishing close games. He has a 104 rating in the 4th quarter when the score is within 7. Wilson comes in a little below 71. That said, Kap's overall 4th quarter rating is quite low.

Wilson has been a much better passer in the red zone - 96 rating to Kap's 61, and Kap is at a 40 within 10. Though Kap has been much better running near the endzone - three times the yards and three TDs to none in roughly half the carries.

Kap has been considerably better on 3rd down, with a rating of 100 to Wilson's 80. He also has 134 yards rushing and two rushing TDs to Wilson's 62 and none on 3rd down.

I think the third down difference is significant given the Hawks' offensive performances lately. They are really struggling to convert and stay on the field.

Anyway, it's an interesting topic that will be a live one for years to come, I'd imagine. I'm pulling for Kap, obviously, but we'll see what happens.

 

[whysies]

Kap fails the numbers test when you compare the most basic of numbers. Digging deeper into the stats, it's closer. Some examples:

Kap has been better at finishing close games. He has a 104 rating in the 4th quarter when the score is within 7. Wilson comes in a little below 71. That said, Kap's overall 4th quarter rating is quite low.

Wilson has been a much better passer in the red zone - 96 rating to Kap's 61, and Kap is at a 40 within 10. Though Kap has been much better running near the endzone - three times the yards and three TDs to none in roughly half the carries.

Kap has been considerably better on 3rd down, with a rating of 100 to Wilson's 80. He also has 134 yards rushing and two rushing TDs to Wilson's 62 and none on 3rd down.

I think the third down difference is significant given the Hawks' offensive performances lately. They are really struggling to convert and stay on the field.

Anyway, it's an interesting topic that will be a live one for years to come, I'd imagine. I'm pulling for Kap, obviously, but we'll see what happens.

For sure, I think it's close. And I like Kap more, both now and going forward. Although I must say when you start parsing numbers out you can probably use them to support whatever argument you want. *Insert pithy quote about lies and statistics here*

What I take exception to is saying Kap is head and shoulders better than Wilson and especially saying the numbers prove that. They most certainly don't.

 

[darken65]

This will be a debate for a long time between the Hawk and 9er fans (noboby else is debating this often). Wilson has better site of the field, Kap stares down his targets still.Injuries on both teams (O-line ,WRs ,Etc...)These kids will improve and both have the mental aptitude to progress as the years come. Neither one is a savior of a team for sure. In short...neither one of these QBs are why these teams are as great as they are.

 

[TobyTyler]

Wilson looks better in a baseball cap too.

 

[whysies]

Wilson looks better in a baseball cap too.

Although you're a little late to the party, this joke has already been hit

 

[SonnyCID]

A QB shows there true colors when things are going bad.

IMO, the best performance that I've seen from Aaron Rodgers was not a 400 yard - 4 TD day. It was when he played in Seattle last year and even though he was getting the shit kicked out of him and not getting any of the big plays that they're used to, he stayed tough and kept chipping away and didn't turn the ball over even under immense pressure.

I didn't feel as impressed with Wilson the other night, but I did love how when nothing was working (running game, protection) yet he stayed tough and did enough to win by putting the ball in the endzone and not turning it over.

 

[purguy12]

In my opinion that is not the correct way to evaluate any player. NFL seasons have ups and downs for teams and players. With young QBs the ups and downs sometimes come in quick bursts. Just Kap alone, started the season on an up note and then swung down for a few games and now he is back up and playing well. Wilson has been up and down and up and down this year too, right now he is just down... no big deal, I'm pretty sure he will bounce back. That is the life of a young QB in the NFL.

This is the same mistake that a lot of the Seatrolls from ESPN take when trolling this thread. Trying to say that when Wilson is up and Kap is down, that is the true difference. Don't do that, don't be that guy.

Very true, a lot of up and downs and I guess we have to wait and see but right now Kap has a big lead. Won a division already, won a NFC championship and went to the Super Bowl. This year +30pts in 5 straight games.