Roy vs Hasek vs Brodeur

[elocomotive]

Okay, but what about the rest of what I said?

Well, to your starter questions, I think all of the goalies possessed those qualities. Saying Hasek quit on teams, that's a subjective observation, there really isn't a counter to it except I don't think he did and you do.

Hasek is the only person who ever lived (and who will ever live) who would be successful in that style. That's part of my issue. Trying to coach kids who see the "slinky spine spazzout" as a valid style is tough.

So, essentially you are saying he was the most talented to ever live b/c he was the only one that could play like that. And you don't like it b/c it's not teachable to kids? Not really what the debate is about here.

 

[DevilishWon]

Marty.....


BTW I think Hasek quit on teams too

 

[puckhead]

Marty.....


BTW I think Hasek quit on teams too

during the playoffs (or might have been fighting for the last spot).
doctors game him clearance, and he said, "nah.. I think I'll wait some more"
Sabres fans can give you all the filthy details.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Records are as much a function of longevity as they are of greatness. Was Hank Aaron a better hitter than Ruth? No, he just played longer (and had longer seasons). By starts...

Hasek 81 SO, 714 starts = 11.3%
Brodeur 119 SO, 1,776 starts = 6.7%
Roy 66 SO, 1,003 starts = 6.6%

First of all, Martin Brodeur has fewer starts than that (1176). Second, it's exponentially harder to pitch a perfect game so-to-speak when teams score more runs on average in some years than others - like, for instance, the late-1980s (Roy's prime) compared to the late 1990s (Hasek's prime).

NHL Average Goals per Game

 

[quoipourquoi]

during the playoffs (or might have been fighting for the last spot).
doctors game him clearance, and he said, "nah.. I think I'll wait some more"
Sabres fans can give you all the filthy details.

The behavior of Dominik Hasek, Buffalo's star goalie, - 05.05.97 - SI Vault


Try not to punch a wall when you remember he won the Hart Trophy a month later...

 

[beantownmaniac]

Tiny Thompson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else

 

[quoipourquoi]

Tiny Thompson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else

Give me Charlie Gardiner or Bill Durnan.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Give me Charlie Gardiner or Bill Durnan.

That's cool, but as a Bruins fan, I'll roll the dice with Thompson or Brimsek

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Obvious bias here, but the team factor is huge.

I was glad he played for my team, but I have no doubt he would have multiple Cups if he had been with a top caliber team instead of the Sabres.

What drops him from best on my list is that his prime was too short relative to others. At his prime, he was better than Roy or Brodeur in their primes, IMO.

 

[BF4L]

I go with Roy.

I think Marty was very good but also benefited from the team he had that would dump the puck over the boards at any pressure and take a billion icing's to keep the pressure low. That being said if Marty stands on his head and brings a cup back to the Devils it would be hard to not say he is #1.

Hasek was crazy good for a few years but not in the same league as Roy and Brodeur.

IMO

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I'm going to throw a big huge bucket of gasoline on this fire, but I do find it odd that people tend to view guys like Osgood, Fuhr, Barasso, and others as guys who's stats, numbers, and wins were inflated by their teams, but for some reason those rules don't apply for a guy who played behind a stifling defensive system, and guys like Stevens, Neids, Daneyko, Madden, Pandolfo.... not saying at all that Marty's not in the conversation, or that Osgood and Fuhr could hold Marty's jock... just saying it seems to be a double standard when it comes to judging goalies. Then you've got a guy like Hasek who had absolutely no one in front of him, and he's getting critiqued on his style and lack of championships.. kind of funny to me.

I do think Hasek's off ice behavior tarnishes his reputation way more than Brodultery or Captain Assault, but his on ice talent is sick enough to put him in the same conversation with Roy and Marty.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Needs more Flyers...

 

[quoipourquoi]

I do think Hasek's off ice behavior tarnishes his reputation way more than Brodultery or Captain Assault, but his on ice talent is sick enough to put him in the same conversation with Roy and Marty.

Absolutely, and I wouldn't exactly say he had a short prime either. His stretch from 1994-1999 was at least as good as Roy's from 1987-1992. The difference, of course, is that Roy had incredible playoffs outside of his prime (1986, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001 - a Conn Smythe in three different decades) whereas Hasek didn't really do a whole lot in his down years.

I really just don't see Brodeur as being close to Roy and Hasek. He wins a lot because he plays a lot. He's the Ron Francis of goalies - or at best, a watered-down Mark Messier sans Hart Trophies.

Looking at Brodeur's Win total and saying he's the guy is like faulting Roy for quitting while he was still among the league's best - which despite Brodeur's place in the Stanley Cup Finals, is pretty fucking far from being true for him.

Great goalie, but good God, without a single season as the leader in save percentage, he's got a lot of ground to make up on Roy and Hasek. A Stanley Cup at 40 isn't really doing it either when you consider Roy's twilight years Conn Smythe and Hart nomination and Hasek's 2007 run with Detroit. I mean, where has Brodeur been since 2003 besides waiting for the Devils to get better players than him to carry the load in the playoffs?

 

[DChero]

his sister in law loved him

That's what I was thinking when he wasn't mentioned as being a douche.

I'm really not too fond of any, but I think Brodeur's had the better career. Roy's a bitch, everyone knows this. Hasek makes Terrel Owens look like a team player. I think Brodeur's the one that actually leads his team by example... well, better than the other two. It's too close to call when it comes to ability.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Absolutely, and I wouldn't exactly say he had a short prime either. His stretch from 1994-1999 was at least as good as Roy's from 1987-1992. The difference, of course, is that Roy had incredible playoffs outside of his prime (1986, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001 - a Conn Smythe in three different decades) whereas Hasek didn't really do a whole lot in his down years.

I really just don't see Brodeur as being close to Roy and Hasek. He wins a lot because he plays a lot. He's the Ron Francis of goalies - or at best, a watered-down Mark Messier sans Hart Trophies.

Looking at Brodeur's Win total and saying he's the guy is like faulting Roy for quitting while he was still among the league's best - which despite Brodeur's place in the Stanley Cup Finals, is pretty fucking far from being true for him.

Great goalie, but good God, without a single season as the leader in save percentage, he's got a lot of ground to make up on Roy and Hasek. A Stanley Cup at 40 isn't really doing it either when you consider Roy's twilight years Conn Smythe and Hart nomination and Hasek's 2007 run with Detroit. I mean, where has Brodeur been since 2003 besides waiting for the Devils to get better players than him to carry the load in the playoffs?

Again, I must point to my personal Lord and Savior, Chris Osgood. Is he "better" than Curtis Joseph or Eddie Belfour? His playoff record is, his Cup appearances and wins are. Hasek had three years on good Detroit teams, and he won a Cup once and went to the WCFs once. Other than that, he was stuck as a backup in Chicago, stuck on a glorified AHL team in Buffalo, injured, or in Ottawa.

 

[puckhead]

Tiny Thompson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else

That's cool, but as a Bruins fan, I'll roll the dice with Thompson or Brimsek

Fine, I'll throw George Hainsworth on the pile.
22 shutouts in a 44 game season one year. GAA of 0.92

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I think goaltending is probably the toughest position to judge players from different eras. Not that it's easy to compare Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, and Mark Messier, but goaltending has changed so drastically over the years. I think you have to go by eras with goalies, for sure. I don't know how you would compare a guy like Terry Sawchuk to Marty Brodeur, much less George Hainsworth. I guess you just have to go by dominance in an era compared to other goalies, but the numbers will be skewed. The best goalies in the 80's are going to have horrible numbers to a guy who came up in the 90's. Maybe we can get Darkstone on this...

 

[beantownmaniac]

Fine, I'll throw George Hainsworth on the pile.
22 shutouts in a 44 game season one year. GAA of 0.92

I think the bottom line is goalies then>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>goalies now. Much smaller pads, gloves and NO MASKS!!!

 

[beantownmaniac]

I think goaltending is probably the toughest position to judge players from different eras. Not that it's easy to compare Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, and Mark Messier, but goaltending has changed so drastically over the years. I think you have to go by eras with goalies, for sure. I don't know how you would compare a guy like Terry Sawchuk to Marty Brodeur, much less George Hainsworth. I guess you just have to go by dominance in an era compared to other goalies, but the numbers will be skewed. The best goalies in the 80's are going to have horrible numbers to a guy who came up in the 90's. Maybe we can get Darkstone on this...

I don't think we're comparing as much as throwing out some of the greats just for fun. Sometimes people get lost in the moment and forget the greats of the past. I think great athletes would be great in any era as they would have all the same advantages in training and equipment.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I don't think we're comparing as much as throwing out some of the greats just for fun. Sometimes people get lost in the moment and forget the greats of the past. I think great athletes would be great in any era as they would have all the same advantages in training and equipment.

Absolutely... I don't think you could just teleport Sawchuk into today's game and have him succeed, but if he was born in 1985 and had access to all of today's training regimens, for sure he would be dominant. I am a little fascinated by how dominant different goalies were by era. If you took a second tier guy like Joseph and threw him into the 70's, would he be an absolute monster? Or would he have trouble cracking a lineup in a smaller league? Stuff like that intrigues me.