Rember how everyone praised Baalke 2011 draft?

[BOB11]

15m[/ame] The [URL="[MEDIA=twitter]455557699749425152[/MEDIA]"]2m[/ame]
BTW, the [URL="https://twitter.com/search?q=%2349ers&src=hash"]#49ers fifth pick in the 2011 draft -- OL Daniel Kilgore -- was arrested for public intoxication in January.


All these players from the same draft with off the field issues now. Maybe that draft wasn't so great after all. Ugh!

 

[deep9er]

from a football perspective, that was a GREAT draft. but now you're letting off the field issues justify them as bad players?

how players pan out off the field, is similar to predicting how they do on.......it is an inexact science. for the 'extreme' cases, yeah they show their hand early, but the far majority aren't extreme.

if we avoid players with the potential for future 'issues', we might as well fold up. cause just about ALL players have the potential for something?

 

[BOB11]

from a football perspective, that was a GREAT draft. but now you're letting off the field issues justify them as bad players?

how players pan out off the field, is similar to predicting how they do on.......it is an inexact science. for the 'extreme' cases, yeah they show their hand early, but the far majority aren't extreme.

if we avoid players with the potential for future 'issues', we might as well fold up. cause just about ALL players have the potential for something?

No,but it does raise red flags about how good Trent and the other members of the staff do when looking into people backgrounds come draft time. You can't just ignore the fact that players that Trent draft that year keep having off the field issues. Yes,thier talent might be great,but it wont matter if they can't stay out of trouble.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

from a football perspective, that was a GREAT draft. but now you're letting off the field issues justify them as bad players?

how players pan out off the field, is similar to predicting how they do on.......it is an inexact science. for the 'extreme' cases, yeah they show their hand early, but the far majority aren't extreme.

if we avoid players with the potential for future 'issues', we might as well fold up. cause just about ALL players have the potential for something?

I don't disagree with this post, just a little shocked to see Deep refer to a draft as great. After all, I've heard that the draft that produced Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, and Tarell Brown was subpar.

 

[NinerSickness]

You & imac are never gonna let him live that one down are you?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You & imac are never gonna let him live that one down are you?

Hahaha. Nope. And hey, he hasn't recanted that position to date....

 

[Chamoanlad]

No,but it does raise red flags about how good Trent and the other members of the staff do when looking into people backgrounds come draft time. You can't just ignore the fact that players that Trent draft that year keep having off the field issues. Yes,thier talent might be great,but it wont matter if they can't stay out of trouble.

The last time we had a bunch of choir boys playing ball that you never heard of in the offseason is when the team sucked ass in the 2000's. With the amount of resources an NFL team pours into a background check for draft picks you could find something wrong with a minimum of half the guys drafted. You weigh a ton of factors in and then decide whether it's worth giving them a chance or not.

Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf draft being a good example. Rumors of Peyton Manning sexually harrassing someone and Ryan Leaf where his teammates and fellow students were saying he's a douche bag. Nothing stopped Peyton from being #1 and have to guess Colts did their due diligence. People called the WSU rumors a bunch of haters, but turned out it was all true.

You sift through things the best you can and someone times you strike gold and someone times it's fools gold.

 

[my2cents]

No,but it does raise red flags about how good Trent and the other members of the staff do when looking into people backgrounds come draft time. You can't just ignore the fact that players that Trent draft that year keep having off the field issues. Yes,thier talent might be great,but it wont matter if they can't stay out of trouble.

Just because there is a correlation (that 4 players from the draft have/had legal troubles) does not mean there is any causation at all (that this one draft produced such a result or that the front office looked past any indications that such instances would occur-- lets be honest, if they could see the future, we would draft hall of famers every year). This is purely coincidence and nothing more. I didn't see anyone saying anything about this issue last week and all 4 of these players had legal issues then. Also, the whole Kilgore thing is a bit over the top, it was a public intox charge. If anyone lives in a college town, those things are as common as traffic tickets.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Just because there is a correlation (that 4 players from the draft have/had legal troubles) does not mean there is any causation at all (that this one draft produced such a result or that the front office looked past any indications that such instances would occur-- lets be honest, if they could see the future, we would draft hall of famers every year). This is purely coincidence and nothing more. I didn't see anyone saying anything about this issue last week and all 4 of these players had legal issues then. Also, the whole Kilgore thing is a bit over the top, it was a public intox charge. If anyone lives in a college town, those things are as common as traffic tickets.

To be fair, the Daniel Kilgore thing is a non-issue IMO. He spent one night in the drunk tank, and that's probably all that will ever come of it. It's not great, but I would be very surprised if there were enduring consequences. The Kap thing is still very unclear. He very well may not have done anything wrong. Again, it's not great to appear in the news under those circumstances, but if she just had too much to drink, I think it's really hard to fault his actions. Culliver has only had the one legal issue, though it was one that showed very poor judgment.

Aldon is clearly the big problem. He's got to get his shit together or he'll be gone after this year. The guy has HOF talent, but he needs to get his act together. Frankly, after the season ended, they should have sent him to a 90-day rehab program. That's the length of program that works. The 30-day program or whatever they sent him to during the season isn't long enough to have a lasting impact in the vast majority of cases. The guy needs to get his alcohol problem in check, and start using his head.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Now, having said what I just did about Aldon, I was listening to 95.7 this morning and they had a caller who claimed to have witnessed the entire thing. Obviously she could have been making it up, but she seemed legit. According to her - and this jives with the initial reports - he had some sort of problem at the ticket counter and started getting worked up. She made it sound like they told him at that time he couldn't take the flight. However, for some reason, they still let him go to/through TSA. She says that she thought he said, "I am the bomb," though no idea how close she was to him. Even after that, they let him go into the gate area - and again, at this point they definitely weren't going to let him on the plane. While in the gate area, five or six TSA officers approached him and he got very agitated and was arrested.

Now, in no way am I condoning Aldon's actions here. It seems like he was out of line pretty much from the beginning. That said, it sounds like the airline staff and TSA could/should have taken control of the situation earlier. That said, I don't know that I would mess with a guy Aldon's size unless I had about four or five other guys backing me up, either.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

To be fair, the Daniel Kilgore thing is a non-issue IMO. He spent one night in the drunk tank, and that's probably all that will ever come of it. It's not great, but I would be very surprised if there were enduring consequences. The Kap thing is still very unclear. He very well may not have done anything wrong. Again, it's not great to appear in the news under those circumstances, but if she just had too much to drink, I think it's really hard to fault his actions. Culliver has only had the one legal issue, though it was one that showed very poor judgment.

Aldon is clearly the big problem. He's got to get his shit together or he'll be gone after this year. The guy has HOF talent, but he needs to get his act together. Frankly, after the season ended, they should have sent him to a 90-day rehab program. That's the length of program that works. The 30-day program or whatever they sent him to during the season isn't long enough to have a lasting impact in the vast majority of cases. The guy needs to get his alcohol problem in check, and start using his head.

2cents, the "to be fair" thing was not directed at you. I hit quote, but I was meaning to largely agree with your post. Just realized it may not have sounded that way.

 

[Pattersonca65]

No,but it does raise red flags about how good Trent and the other members of the staff do when looking into people backgrounds come draft time. You can't just ignore the fact that players that Trent draft that year keep having off the field issues. Yes,thier talent might be great,but it wont matter if they can't stay out of trouble.

In Kapernick's case to be fair, we don't know that he really did anything wrong just yet although we will find ou. In terms of background checks, Kaepernick was a really good student, comes from a really good family, and never got into trouble as far as I know. So not sure what Balke would have been able to find out during the draft that would have raised any red flags. About the other two players, I don't know.

 

[deep9er]

I don't disagree with this post, just a little shocked to see Deep refer to a draft as great. After all, I've heard that the draft that produced Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, and Tarell Brown was subpar.

if you want to bring this up again, then at least explain it correctly. years ago my comment was McCloughan didn't do well in his TENURE here. he didn't do well considering the ammo he had, not he didn't get anybody at all. he had high (top 10 each round) slot picks EVERY year, and had extra mid round picks.

also recall that opinion was made before Harbaugh's arrival.

so of course to counter my comment, you narrow 'tenure' down to ONE draft class, which you're referring to above. not only do you narrow it down to ONE class, but you choose the one where he traded a future 1st to add Joe Staley. that future 1st turned out to be #7 overall the following draft.

why don't you include the other draft classes by McCloughan?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

if you want to bring this up again, then at least explain it correctly. years ago my comment was McCloughan didn't do well in his TENURE here. he didn't do well considering the ammo he had, not he didn't get anybody at all. he had high (top 10 each round) slot picks EVERY year, and had extra mid round picks.

also recall that opinion was made before Harbaugh's arrival.

so of course to counter my comment, you narrow 'tenure' down to ONE draft class, which you're referring to above. not only do you narrow it down to ONE class, but you choose the one where he traded a future 1st to add Joe Staley. that future 1st turned out to be #7 overall the following draft.

why don't you include the other draft classes by McCloughan?

You specifically referred to that draft as being subpar, in addition to questioning McCloughan's overall tenure. Questioning McCloughan's overall performance is understandable, though I think history has borne out that he did a pretty good job. Questioning that specific draft is still ludicrous. It's probably one of the better drafts in NFL history.

 

[deep9er]

You specifically referred to that draft as being subpar, in addition to questioning McCloughan's overall tenure. Questioning McCloughan's overall performance is understandable, though I think history has borne out that he did a pretty good job. Questioning that specific draft is still ludicrous. It's probably one of the better drafts in NFL history.

no, I did NOT say that one class was subpar, you said it for me.....and still saying it for me. I said McCloughan's tenure was below par, and 'tenure' consists of all his classes.

you dove right in to counter my comment, defending McCloughan, but apparently you realized it was only that one class holding him up? so you had to say it and stick with it, else you couldn't counter. even to this day you go directly to that ONE class, and still don't mention the other classes.

but i'll say one thing in your response above, you're sticking to the proper time frame before Harbaugh.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

no, I did NOT say that one class was subpar, you said it for me.....and still saying it for me. I said McCloughan's tenure was below par, and 'tenure' consists of all his classes.

you dove right in to counter my comment, defending McCloughan, but apparently you realized it was only that one class holding him up? so you had to say it and stick with it, else you couldn't counter. even to this day you go directly to that ONE class, and still don't mention the other classes.

but i'll say one thing in your response above, you're sticking to the proper time frame before Harbaugh.

I asked you specifically to rate that one class, and you called it subpar. I seem to recall you citing Jason Hill, Jay Moore, and Joe Cohen as preventing it from being considered good. We discussed it in the context of the Cowboys' 2005 draft, which you referred to as average. Not sure why you're denying it now. We've had the discussion several times over the years, though I don't think we ever discussed it on the SportsHoopla boards, so it may be lost to posterity.

As for that draft being the only one holding McCloughan up, I disagree. It's by far his best, but he had a lot of impact picks which helped propel this team to its current spot as arguably the deepest roster in the league. To review:

2005: Alex Smith, David Baas, Frank Gore, and Adam Snyder all panned out to some degree. Those were the first four picks; none of the guys taken from the 5th round on made an impact. As bad as Smith seemed for awhile, there's a strong argument that he's the best player to come out of the top-10 of that draft. Baas was never great, but he was solid for several years. Gore has been maybe the best RB in team history. And Snyder has filled a role. Looking back now, that draft was pretty solid in a historically weak class.

2006: Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Delanie Walker, and Michael Robinson all had successful careers with the Niners and elsewhere. Davis has been a great TE who probably would be a perennial pro bowl player on a team that passes more. Lawson was somewhat disappointing as a first-round pick, but he started 66 games over five years (only missed four possible starts in his rookie year and four in 2008) and was a solid starter who has had a successful NFL career. Haralson and Walker were great late-round picks, and Michael Robinson proved to be a great leader and STs ace. He missed on Brandon Williams in the third round.

2007: Three pro bowlers in Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, and Dashon Goldson. A very good DL in Ray McDonald, and a very solid starting CB in Tarell Brown. Jason Hill, Jay Moore, and Joe Cohen never panned out.

2008: Joshua Morgan turned out to be a good pick late in the draft. Larry Grant was cut as a 7th rounder, but went on to have a good career including coming back to the Niners and playing well as a STs player and injury replacement. This draft was a wash otherwise. Kentwan Balmer, Chilo Rachal, Reggie Smith, and Cody Wallace were all busts.

2009: Michael Crabtree has had his share of ups and downs, but he's developed into a very good WR. Ricky Jean-Francois was very good value for a 7th rounder, going on to provide solid depth at several DL positions. Bear Pascoe didn't do anything with the Niners, but he's still hanging around in the league as a blocking TE. Glenn Coffee, the only pick other than Crabtree in the first four rounds this year, was a bust for non-football reasons. Tough to hit the GM too hard for that one. Scott McKillop was a 5th-round pick who suffered a severe injury and never came back.

2010: Not McCloughan's draft, but given when he left the team, we have to believe he had a strong hand in setting up the board, particularly the use of our two first rounders. Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and Navorro Bowman, have all been very good players added in the first three rounds. Taylor Mays was a bust.

If we only consider 2005-2009, McCloughan added six pro bowl players. Crabtree and Ray McDonald haven't made the pro bowl, but they've both been very effective. He also found great later-round values in future starters Goldson, Brown, Walker, and Haralson. In five years, he had five guys who were outright busts on the field (I'm limiting that to guys taken in the first three rounds). Three of them come from one very bad draft in 2008. Perhaps more significantly, the 2011 team featured 11 starters drafted by McCloughan, and three more from the 2010 draft.

If we only look at classes, I would say McCloughan had one incredible class (2007), one very good class (2006), one surprisingly solid class (2005), one slightly disappointing draft (2009, most of it due to Coffee's off-field departure), and one awful draft (2008).

I don't think McCloughan will go down as a great GM, but history has borne out that his eye for talent is quite strong. Referring even to his overall draft production as subpar reflects a lack of appreciation for how much of a crap shoot the draft truly is. I highly doubt you could find even ten GMs who had a better run during the years McCloughan was with us. I would invite you to try, though.

 

[purguy12]

It was a great draft. Talent was its an A+. off the field not so great.

I would still want to draft those 3 guys again if we have to redo the draft.

 

[whysies]

It was a great draft. Talent was its an A+. off the field not so great.

I would still want to draft those 3 guys again if we have to redo the draft.

You're insane. Knowing what you do about Aldon now you would still pick him over Watt? Culliver over Sherman?

Come on dude

 

[Dodub]

I don't disagree with this post, just a little shocked to see Deep refer to a draft as great. After all, I've heard that the draft that produced Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, and Tarell Brown was subpar.

Lol I remember that argument!

 

[purguy12]

You're insane. Knowing what you do about Aldon now you would still pick him over Watt? Culliver over Sherman?

Come on dude

No Sherman is way better I was stating I would still pick those guys. Now if the whole draft was re done then yes some picks would be different.