Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Breed]

Maybe YOU need to rewatch the play. Cousins was clearly stepping up to make the throw when Moses escorted the DE into his field of Vision, Kirk pulled it down. Then he made the mistake of trying to reload and throw it... he came up short.

I think you need to watch the play again...not that you are wrong technically; however, IF did exactly what he was supposed to. Step up in an open pocket. He also had to make that throw...he was just a touch off because of all the pressure. That being said, Moses can't let his man back inside like that. Cardinal mistake.

Watched the play again. My opinion didn't change. KC has been lauded, and rightfully so, with helping the Skins OL when it comes to pass blocking. He gets rid of the ball on time and he moves well in the pocket and to open spots. He didn't do Moses any favors on that particular play though with his movement. Quite frankly, I don't know what you guys expect Moses to do on a play like that. Was his man driving Moses back? Yeah, but Moses was still right in front of him and seemed to be gaining traction.

That said. With the Skins down by just a FG;. This was the scenario

1st n 10 @ NYG 43 yard line, 1 min 24 sec left, 2 time outs. The very last thing you want in that situation is to turn the ball over. Kirk knows that. Throw the ball away, take off and run, take a sack, but under no circumstances turn the ball over.

And oh, the Giants pressure came from all over the field that day. Not just the side Moses was playing on. I think the Skins OL was confused a lotta the times. The Giants surely outschemed the Skins far as getting a good constant pass rush.

 

[gkekoa]

Of course it was plenty of time. They were at midfield and needed a fg to tie. plus a to. lol. are you serious? Im saying you don't attempt to make that throw in that situation. Too many bad things can happen. You just take the sack b/c you had to's. Its situational football. KC did the same thing in the first Giants game at the end of the half.

So you don't try to make a throw to a guy you feel is open? Is that what you are saying?

That is time enough...I agree. How is that down and distance treating you?

 

[gkekoa]

Watched the play again. My opinion didn't change. KC has been lauded, and rightfully so, with helping the Skins OL when it comes to pass blocking. He gets rid of the ball on time and he moves well in the pocket and to open spots. He didn't do Moses any favors on that particular play though with his movement. Quite frankly, I don't know what you guys expect Moses to do on a play like that. Was his man driving Moses back? Yeah, but Moses was still right in front of him and seemed to be gaining traction.

That said. With the Skins down by just a FG;. This was the scenario

1st n 10 @ NYG 43 yard line, 1 min 24 sec left, 2 time outs. The very last thing you want in that situation is to turn the ball over. Kirk knows that. Throw the ball away, take off and run, take a sack, but under no circumstances turn the ball over.

And oh, the Giants pressure came from all over the field that day. Not just the side Moses was playing on. I think the Skins OL was confused a lotta the times. The Giants surely outschemed the Skins far as getting a good constant pass rush.

As an edge blocker, you do not allow your man inside the pocket. You push them upfield.

 

[gkekoa]

that is where you are wrong. Why are you gambling in that situation? You have plenty of time plus timeouts to set up a FG. Are you serious gk? Kc treated that play like a 4th down all or nothing play.

So...a minute and twenty seconds is plenty of time? I would say time is a factor there. They would have one timeout left but it would have been 2nd and 14 from near the 50 with a struggling FG kicker.

Now answer this question...should KC throw the ball to people he sees as open?

 

[Kevin12773]

I'm sure McCoy or Sudfield would've been successful on the play in question.

 

[Stymietee]

So...a minute and twenty seconds is plenty of time? I would say time is a factor there. They would have one timeout left but it would have been 2nd and 14 from near the 50 with a struggling FG kicker.

Now answer this question...should KC throw the ball to people he sees as open?

Not all of the time, in fact what KC does when a play breaks down is precisely his biggest weakness, where he needs the most work on his game, what you guys have been debating for along time and I suspect the reason why the organization is not making him a market based offer in contract negotiations.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not all of the time, in fact what KC does when a play breaks down is precisely his biggest weakness, where he needs the most work on his game, what you guys have been debating for along time and I suspect the reason why the organization is not making him a market based offer in contract negotiations.

Totally get that. But people around here have been bitching about Kirk as if he has been starting for six years and should be over making these kinds of mental errors, when reality is he has been starting for two years. If other teams had the same mentality as some of the Skins fans, Romo would have been benched or not resigned after two years under center. Eli would have never made it out of his rookie contract.

I really think it comes down to Kirk just not being the guy some people wanted to be our starter. And I also think some people would sooner see us make another dumb trade up to get a Darnold, than sign Kirk long term unless he does the 1 in 32 this year.

 

[Stymietee]

Totally get that. But people around here have been bitching about Kirk as if he has been starting for six years and should be over making these kinds of mental errors, when reality is he has been starting for two years. If other teams had the same mentality as some of the Skins fans, Romo would have been benched or not resigned after two years under center. Eli would have never made it out of his rookie contract.

I really think it comes down to Kirk just not being the guy some people wanted to be our starter. And I also think some people would sooner see us make another dumb trade up to get a Darnold, than sign Kirk long term unless he does the 1 in 32 this year.

That's fair, and there are also some people who just cannot or will not evaluate him based on his strengths and weaknesses. By nearly all accounts Kirk is a good guy, and a pretty good QB. Some citing his record setting stats and his claim to the throne of being the "best that we've had in a long, long time" as reason enough to lock him down long term. It's a really good argument, however, I believe that Kirk has found something that works in this offense and has yet to show that he's capable of improving in the one place where it will count most in playoff football. You know what, never mind, let me ask the panel this before I proceed: Where has he shown growth from year one to year two?

 

[Sharkinva]

You know what, never mind, let me ask the panel this before I proceed: Where has he shown growth from year one to year two?

I will take a crack at it.

1. Unlike in 2015, he wasnt playing like a guy with one butt check on the bench already. And by that I mean he actually played like the starter for Most if not all of the season. He wasnt afraid to take a chance for fear of making a bad play and the owner throwing a hissy fit and having him benched for the other guy. Now this lead to some good and some bad plays.

2. Because of point #1, he was willing to take a few more chances, which the big complaint was that he did well in 2015, but he played like a robot scared to go off script.

3. I think he actually became more of a leader of the team and some one who has some weight in the huddle.

Now the real question is, besides becoming one of the elites, what more should we have expected from a guy actually starting his second season in the NFL. I know some will say, well he had starting experience before that. But we all know he was a place holder at that time, and we all knew that short of perfection he was never going to hold the starting job prior to 2016 actually ( because I believe had the team continued to falter mid way through 2015, Griffin would have been made the starter again). But as I have said before, if he was a 1st round pick with the performance he has had over the past two years.... most of his detractors here would be planning Danny and Bruce's assassination for letting the contract situation get to where it is today.

 

[Stymietee]

I'm going to wait and hopefully get more response to the simple questions: As a full two year starter, Where has he (Cousins) shown growth from year one to year two? What does his upside look like?

 

[Breed]

As an edge blocker, you do not allow your man inside the pocket. You push them upfield.

I'd opine that Moses didn't allow anyone into the pocket. Maybe dude beat Moses initially with a move that gave him an inside track. DStill, Moses was in front of dude and looked to be getting centered. Had Kirk simply stayed at the deppeset depth he got on his drop-back. He could've easily sidestepped to his right and dude wouldn't have been a problem.

Still doing what he did. I thought he was gonna take off running. I think the best thing KC could've done on the play was throw the ball away.

And yes, A minute n 24 seconds is more than ample time to score a TD when you're 1st n 10 at your opponents 43 yard line. And its certainly more than enough time to pick up another 15 yards or so to set up a decent and potential tying field goal.

 

[Breed]

I really think it comes down to Kirk just not being the guy some people wanted to be our starter.

You keep saying this same ol' bullshit. I don't recall you ever actually stating who these people are that want to keep Kirk down or why they want do. Break it down for us, homey.

I also think some people would sooner see us make another dumb trade up to get a Darnold, than sign Kirk long term unless he does the 1 in 32 this year.

If Darnold turns out to be a stud it wouldn't be a dumb trade. And you have no clue what position the Skins will be in to acquire Darnold next year. Or another QB that'll be available at the Skins pick regardless where that 1st rd pk ends up.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd opine that Moses didn't allow anyone into the pocket. Maybe dude beat Moses initially with a move that gave him an inside track. DStill, Moses was in front of dude and looked to be getting centered. Had Kirk simply stayed at the deppeset depth he got on his drop-back. He could've easily sidestepped to his right and dude wouldn't have been a problem.

Still doing what he did. I thought he was gonna take off running. I think the best thing KC could've done on the play was throw the ball away.

And yes, A minute n 24 seconds is more than ample time to score a TD when you're 1st n 10 at your opponents 43 yard line. And its certainly more than enough time to pick up another 15 yards or so to set up a decent and potential tying field goal.

The problem here is simply this.

Kirk was originally stepping into his throw as Moses lost contain and the DE dipped inside. Kirk saw this and pulled the ball down. Now was it a mistake for him to try and reload to throw it again flat footed?? Hell yes it was, because he doesnt have the arm to get the ball out that far flat footed.

Moses NEVER recovered on that play. The DE worked him like a two dollar whore on .50 cent tequila.

So again I freely admit that Kirk fucked up trying to reload and throw it. But the reality is, if Moses had done his job, that ball gets out 3 seconds earlier and we are bitching about losing to the Packers in the playoffs again instead of complaining about how Kirk threw an INT on a busted play.

 

[Breed]

I'm going to wait and hopefully get more response to the simple questions: As a full two year starter, Where has he (Cousins) shown growth from year one to year two? What does his upside look like?

He's showed growth far as looking/going downfield. Enough that I thought he was a more accurate passer in 16 than in 15. Even though his comp% was slightly higher in 15. He made more downfield throws in 16. At least in-between the 20s.

 

[Sharkinva]

You keep saying this same ol' bullshit. I don't recall you ever actually stating who these people are that want to keep Kirk down or why they want do. Break it down for us, homey.

You, Harry (Dean) and Lloyd (Coach) are the first names to come to mind.

And I will say this.. unless this team totally shits the bed, I think the cost to trade up for Darnold will be MORE than what we gave up to get RGMe unless Darnold totally shits the bed this year. And unless Darnold becomes an instant Hall Of Fame candidate, the price even then would be too high.

 

[Breed]

The problem here is simply this.

Kirk was originally stepping into his throw as Moses lost contain and the DE dipped inside. Kirk saw this and pulled the ball down. Now was it a mistake for him to try and reload to throw it again flat footed?? Hell yes it was, because he doesnt have the arm to get the ball out that far flat footed.

Moses NEVER recovered on that play. The DE worked him like a two dollar whore on .50 cent tequila.

So again I freely admit that Kirk fucked up trying to reload and throw it. But the reality is, if Moses had done his job, that ball gets out 3 seconds earlier and we are bitching about losing to the Packers in the playoffs again instead of complaining about how Kirk threw an INT on a busted play.

There was nothing for Moses to recover from and he "lost" contain when his QB ran past him and the man Moses was blocking. Allowing Moses' man who was watching KC the whole time. To peel off to his left and make a play.

Interesting you say we would've lost to the Packers (had the Skins made the playoffs) I agree with that though I'm not sure they beat the Giants even if Kirk doesn't throw an INT on that play. In part that's the reason his 2 wins against teams with a winning record last year (NYG GB) lost a lotta luster for me. Going 2-4 down the stretch didn't do Cuz any favors with me either.

 

[Breed]

You, Harry (Dean) and Lloyd (Coach) are the first names to come to mind.

And I will say this.. unless this team totally shits the bed, I think the cost to trade up for Darnold will be MORE than what we gave up to get RGMe unless Darnold totally shits the bed this year. And unless Darnold becomes an instant Hall Of Fame candidate, the price even then would be too high.

OK. Now we know who the suspects are.

So what are our reason(s) for not wanting Kirk to be our starting QB?

 

[Sharkinva]

There was nothing for Moses to recover from and he "lost" contain when his QB ran past him and the man Moses was blocking. Allowing Moses' man who was watching KC the whole time. To peel off to his left and make a play.

Interesting you say we would've lost to the Packers (had the Skins made the playoffs) I agree with that though I'm not sure they beat the Giants even if Kirk doesn't throw an INT on that play. In part that's the reason his 2 wins against teams with a winning record last year (NYG GB) lost a lotta luster for me. Going 2-4 down the stretch didn't do Cuz any favors with me either.

I say Moses lost contain because the DE shed him like a snake sheds a skin every summer. Kirk was doing what every GOOD QB does at some point, stepping up into the pocket to make a throw. Now it was assumed Moses could actually maintain his block... he didnt. How many times have we seen NFL Qbs climb the pocket and make an accurate throw?? Again had Moses controlled the DE instead of getting punked, the only question on that pass would have been does Garcon catch the ball.

 

[Sharkinva]

OK. Now we know who the suspects are.

So what are our reason(s) for not wanting Kirk to be our starting QB?

Honestly... simply because he hasnt lived up to what you guys think a franchise QB is. But I also think you have the idea that a franchise QB is Rogers, Brady or the like. As I have also said before, I think you guys dont consider any one not considered elite, to be worthy as a franchise QB.

 

[Breed]

Totally get that. But people around here have been bitching about Kirk as if he has been starting for six years and should be over making these kinds of mental errors, when reality is he has been starting for two years. If other teams had the same mentality as some of the Skins fans, Romo would have been benched or not resigned after two years under center. Eli would have never made it out of his rookie contract.

I really think it comes down to Kirk just not being the guy some people wanted to be our starter. And I also think some people would sooner see us make another dumb trade up to get a Darnold, than sign Kirk long term unless he does the 1 in 32 this year.

Romo went 22-10 his first 2 full years as a starter.

The Giants won the Super Bowl in Eli's 4th year in the league. Doesn't year 4 in the league normally fall under a player's rookie contract? Especially a player drafted as high as Eli was.

How do you think Redskins fans would feel about Kirk if he went 22-10 in his first 2 years starting. Or if Kirk had QBed the Skins to a Super Bowl win in his fourth year in the league.