Reds thread

[bengaldoug]

The Cubs may still be a pain, at least until they have their fire sale.....rumors already have Dempster moving....but the Astros appear completely helpless.....

 

[BigBlueNation111]

They said it was a mild sprain, and shouldn't have any effect on his next start.....knowing the Reds medical staff, I expect the amputation coming soon....

lol..please dont say that!!!

 

[cincygrad]

Good ole' CoCo.... Thanks buddy!

 

[bengaldoug]

Good ole' CoCo.... Thanks buddy!

I almost felt sorry for him. He obviously has nothing left at all. Afraid to throw his fastball to Xavier Paul, for chrissakes.

 

[Servo]

I was hoping the Astros would put CoCo in in the 9th to 'close' out the Reds. I was not dissapointed. That was a really piss poor effort...even by Coco standards. So glad that guy is no longer a Red. I loathed seeing him saunter out in the 9th in a reds uni.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

I believe we have something special with this team.Lets keep it rolling!!! GO REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bengaldoug]

Coco got a lot of bad press while he was in Cincy, but the guy had 150 saves over the four years we had him, and his overall success percentage was the best in the NL during that time. His ERA during that time was under 3.00 too. He was much better than people thought he was, although it seemed like we as fans were always cliff hanging while we watched him in fear.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Coco got a lot of bad press while he was in Cincy, but the guy had 150 saves over the four years we had him, and his overall success percentage was the best in the NL during that time. His ERA during that time was under 3.00 too. He was much better than people thought he was, although it seemed like we as fans were always cliff hanging while we watched him in fear.

You are right. He was better than nearly every closer out there, and was tops in all of MLB more often than not. I agree that he did add a little adventure at times, but the stats speak for themselves. He got the job done more often than not, and at a better rate than a lot of guys out there considered to be really good. That's all you can ask.

What he was doing throwing all those slow sinkers and change-ups was beyond me, but it's clear he needs to shut it down and call it a career.

 

[bengaldoug]

Well, tonight showed us why Cordero was afraid to throw his heater last night....lol.....

 

[cincygrad]

CoCo saves another for the Redlegs!

 

[Servo]

If Stubbs could only hit against CoCo all the time he'd be golden. Of course those two huge at bats should do alot for his confidence.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Like what i seen from Bailey again,just wish he could of gotten his 10th win.

 

[Servo]

You are right. He was better than nearly every closer out there, and was tops in all of MLB more often than not. I agree that he did add a little adventure at times, but the stats speak for themselves. He got the job done more often than not, and at a better rate than a lot of guys out there considered to be really good. That's all you can ask.

What he was doing throwing all those slow sinkers and change-ups was beyond me, but it's clear he needs to shut it down and call it a career.

Maybe it was just me...but I felt an impending sense of dread whenever he took the hill. I guess his stats in terms of saves were good last year but he was extremely hittable. He had a stretch where he was really good and in command...other than that seems like he would put at least two on then get a deep fly ball or line out to close it out (if he got the save).

On that note I tend to agree with Billy Bean re: closers being so overrated. Unless you've got a dominant guy (Chapman, Riviera) you're basically asking someone to get 3 outs against many times a weak part of the line up. There's some out there that validate the close label, but I think most teams would be well served to go on a situational basis and roll with the reliever that is hot instead of annoiting one guy (i.e. Coco)

 

[bengaldoug]

Maybe it was just me...but I felt an impending sense of dread whenever he took the hill. I guess his stats in terms of saves were good last year but he was extremely hittable. He had a stretch where he was really good and in command...other than that seems like he would put at least two on then get a deep fly ball or line out to close it out (if he got the save).

On that note I tend to agree with Billy Bean re: closers being so overrated. Unless you've got a dominant guy (Chapman, Riviera) you're basically asking someone to get 3 outs against many times a weak part of the line up. There's some out there that validate the close label, but I think most teams would be well served to go on a situational basis and roll with the reliever that is hot instead of annoiting one guy (i.e. Coco)

Wasn't just you....he scared the shit out of all of us many a time....most of the time he was dangling on the edge, only to either make a big pitch to get out of it, or just give up a line drive right at someone or a fly ball to the warning track......but the numbers overall were good, whether it was because he was good or just lucky is up for debate.....

 

[Servo]

I think a closer should instill confidence and not dread. If the fans felt that way although they'd never admit it you know the players privately had some serious doubts. On that note I felt horrible for Bailey when Ondrusek blew his W (that he earned...he pitched his ass off...even if the Stos are basically a AAA team).

BTW...did you all hear Welsh say that the Reds turned down Ondrusek for Victoriono?

 

[BigBlueNation111]

I think a closer should instill confidence and not dread. If the fans felt that way although they'd never admit it you know the players privately had some serious doubts. On that note I felt horrible for Bailey when Ondrusek blew his W (that he earned...he pitched his ass off...even if the Stos are basically a AAA team).

BTW...did you all hear Welsh say that the Reds turned down Ondrusek for Victoriono?

wtf????? Looks like it may be Pierre or Denard Span coming our way!!

 

[Cincyfan78]

Agreed on all points about closers.

1. You don't "need" a closer. The save rate back in the 80's and 70's before "closer" were prominant was about 94% for teams. That is about the same rate it is at today with "closers". The easiest 3 outs in baseball, by stats of batting Ave, runs scored, etc...is the 9th inning. The hardest 3 outs in baseball is the 1st 3 outs in the 1st inning. By that method, all closers should start the 1st inning and then the "long man" should pitch from the 2nd inning on.

2. Closers should instill fear in the opposing team. A since of dread and hopelessness. YOu don't think that down 1-3 runs and facing Chapman doesn't make teams just lose hope? If you have a dominant guy like this, it is great, but again, the save % is about the same.

3. I think the advent of the "closer" is ruining guys' arms. As guys throw harder and fast today than in the past, and with only having to face 3 outs or 1 inning of work, I think guys go out there and "Throw" more than they "pitch". Adding additional strain to the arm trying to throw as hard as they can. I think this is why you see relievers having a very high rate of arm/shoulder injuries when compared to the 70's and 80's when relievers routinely went 2 or even 3 innings at a time and often on back-to-back nights. You simply couldn't throw as hard as you can on every pitch and be expected to pitch the amount of innings needed for your team at that time. The advent of the "situation" reliever and closer role, I think, have really hurt a lot of pitchers' arms.

 

[bengaldoug]

Ten straight now, the 'rats and the dirty birds go down to the stros and Cubbies respectively. All is well.....

 

[cincygrad]

Ten straight now, the 'rats and the dirty birds go down to the stros and Cubbies respectively. All is well.....

I'll drink to that! Go Redlegs!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

A lot of people didn't believe me we would be fine without Votto for a few weeks. I mean hell, no one ever pitches to him anyways, so it didn't really matter. What it did do, is not allow everyone else to rely on Joey to be the hero, they had to step up and become their own hero, and if that attitude can stick when Joey comes back from the DL, this team will be that much stronger.