Ray Rice super thread.

[Cincyfan78]

Both completely wrong.

1) Cincyfan: Illegally obtained evidence is thrown out by a judge, if illegally obtained by the police and being used in the criminal case. A security guard giving it to the NFL has nothing to do with that. You are mixing apples and oranges.

2) Godstree: A hotel elevator is not a private setting. No expectation of privacy. If it truly was a private setting - then the recording itself would be illegal, not the handing over of the video. If that were the case, simply having a camera in the elevator in the first place would be illegal.


Again - the NFL has no subpoena power here. The hotel could decide to willingly turn it over - or not. But there is absolutely nothing illegal in doing so.

Lawyers, Police, etc...etc...refuse to accept evidence all the time because of how it was obtained, or how it could affect the case "IF" said evidence ends up being thrown out. It's a big deal how it is received, and who sends it, and how it was obtained.

To imply otherwise is folly.

 

[HizzleRocker]

How would you expect the NFL authenticate a video that was sent illegally to them?

BTW...the casino could never just decide to turn over that video to whomever they decided they wanted to. Don't be ridiculous.

Lawyers, Police, etc...etc...refuse to accept evidence all the time because of how it was obtained, or how it could affect the case "IF" said evidence ends up being thrown out. It's a big deal how it is received, and who sends it, and how it was obtained.

To imply otherwise is folly.

No offense - but you guys have no idea what you are talking about. 1 of you thinks it is somehow illegal to turn over one's own video. Lol. The other somehow thinks criminal evidence standards apply to the NFL.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Money]

Breaking: James Harrison taken to Presbyterian Hospital in Pittsburgh Wednesday night with unsoothable erection.
Physicians unsure how to proceed.

Are you sure it wasn't because of memory relapse of when he punched his girlfriend?

One would think he wouldn't be so vocal given the circumstances of this case and his own past.

 

[Money]

No offense - but you guys have no idea what you are talking about. 1 of you thinks it is somehow illegal to turn over one's own video. Lol. The other somehow thinks criminal evidence standards apply to the NFL.

Wow. Just wow.

One's own video? WTF are you talking about??? What part of this do you not understand:

The law enforcement official, speaking to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, says he had no further communication with any NFL employee and can’t confirm anyone watched the video. The person said he was unauthorized to release the video but shared it unsolicited, because he wanted the NFL to have it before deciding on Rice’s punishment.

You actually have no idea what you are talking about and all your "lol'ing" won't change that.

 

[Speedy]

I may be being a D!Vk here but...

CDC Study: More Men than Women Victims of Partner Abuse » SAVE: Stop Abusive and Violent Environments

Ijs...

 

[iowajerms]

I have not made any comment on the Ray Rice issue. I see how things played out a little bit before I jumped into it.

(1) I am one that thinks a male should not hit a female unless he has serious concern for his (or her) safety, and even then, he should do what he can to avoid doing physical harm. I hold a higher standard for those who are in a business that requires an above average body to be a part in. Ray Rice might not be 6' tall, but he can take a hit that would injure most people. Janay (or however you spell her name) is not a top MMA fighter or 200-pound bodybuilder trained to fight. He was wrong in every way to hit her like he did and I think the punishment is justified.

(2) I hate that the media is saying he has been abusing her after one video. I think it is possible he is beating her, but it is a statement that you do not want to be wrong on. Just one incident doesn't equal being called a wife-beater. I do understand it is possible he is, but without proof, it should not be said.

(3) I have no problem with the media covering on something proven to be true, no matter how the suspect or victim thinks of it. The video went public and Ray Rice was suspended indefinitely. I say the media has the right to talk about that if they want to, as long as it is proven to be true. Whether they like it or not, Ray Rice is a public figure. If you don't want that treatment, don't go into a business that gives you celebrity status.

 

[HizzleRocker]

One's own video? WTF are you talking about??? What part of this do you not understand:



You actually have no idea what you are talking about and all your "lol'ing" won't change that.

And again... Unauthorized does not mean illegal. This is a very simple concept. Someone from the hotel security - or from the hotel legal dept., with the ability to watch the video, decided to turn the video over to the NFL. This was "unauthorized" by the hotel. Goes against hotel policy. That does not make it illegal.

I do know what I am talking about. You should listen.

 

[HizzleRocker]

One's own video? WTF are you talking about??? What part of this do you not understand:



You actually have no idea what you are talking about and all your "lol'ing" won't change that.

Unauthorized -


"Not having official permission or approval."

Illegal -

"Contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law."

Do ya get it now?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Legally, it would appear that the NJ State Police, who handle security at the hotel, would be the ones who would have to turn it over. If someone else at the hotel had a copy, and turned it over, it would be pretty easy to argue in court that it was not obtained legally and have it thrown out.

Also, the Police would have steps on releasing the video, and following correct procedure to ensure that the video couldn't be challenged in court.

It's a simple concept that YOU seem to fail to understand.


Eitherway, it doesn't matter. The NFL could have obtained the video, they didn't. They failed. Roger failed. For that, he should be held accountable.

 

[Money]

And again... Unauthorized does not mean illegal. This is a very simple concept. Someone from the hotel security - or from the hotel legal dept., with the ability to watch the video, decided to turn the video over to the NFL. This was "unauthorized" by the hotel. Goes against hotel policy. That does not make it illegal.

I do know what I am talking about. You should listen.

Yep, you're really on top of things.

I'll just give you a little helpful hint and you can google away. The person who who supposedly sent the video to the NFL does not work for the hotel. He is a law enforcement official. He did not have authorization because authorization could not be given. You are confusing the video which was leaked to TMZ with the video that was supposedly sent to the NFL.

 

[Cyder]

Not true. How "evidence" is obtained is a major issue in the legal court when trying to use said evidence to punish someone.

This is why you see evidence "thrown out" in courts all the time. It matters.

I would not have been illegal for the NFL to ask for the video. In any case the actual legal actions were concluded on 5/20 when he accepted a plea and got the diversionary domestic abuse program.

 

[Money]

I would not have been illegal for the NFL to ask for the video. In any case the actual legal actions were concluded on 5/20 when he accepted a plea and got the diversionary domestic abuse program.

I don't know if the second part is true. I don't think they are concluded until he completes the diversionary domestic abuse program. If he doesn't complete it, I believe they are back to square one. Could be wrong (of course)...

 

[Money]

Unauthorized -


"Not having official permission or approval."

Illegal -

"Contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law."

Do ya get it now?

Hotel employee...leaked video to TMZ

Law enforcement official...leaked video to NFL

Do ya get it now?

 

[Cyder]

I don't know if the second part is true. I don't think they are concluded until he completes the diversionary domestic abuse program. If he doesn't complete it, I believe they are back to square one. Could be wrong (of course)...

I'm the director of security for a large facility in Manhattan. I have tons of cameras including exterior ones. I've caught everything from pick pockets to a double homicide on video. I've never had the police remove anything from my hard drive or tell me not to give a copy to anyone.

 

[Money]

I'm the director of security for a large facility in Manhattan. I have tons of cameras including exterior ones. I've caught everything from pick pockets to a double homicide on video. I've never had the police remove anything from my hard drive or tell me not to give a copy to anyone.

Well...you certainly would know more than me.

 

[HizzleRocker]

I'm the director of security for a large facility in Manhattan. I have tons of cameras including exterior ones. I've caught everything from pick pockets to a double homicide on video. I've never had the police remove anything from my hard drive or tell me not to give a copy to anyone.

That's what I've been trying to explain to these 2 guys. There is nothing illegal about them turning over the video to the NFL. Does not matter whether it was employee or law enforcement. The hotel/casino does not make the law. Nobody is violating some make believe hotel/casino law by turning over a video taken in a public place.

These 2 guys have yet to begin to state exactly what they think was "illegal" about it being turned over, (I'm begging them not to try b/c it will look silly). Now, the hotel may not appreciate it - but that again is not illegal.

 

[Cyder]

That's what I've been trying to explain to these 2 guys. There is nothing illegal about them turning over the video to the NFL. Does not matter whether it was employee or law enforcement. The hotel/casino does not make the law. Nobody is violating some make believe hotel/casino law by turning over a video taken in a public place.

These 2 guys have yet to begin to state exactly what they think was "illegal" about it being turned over, (I'm begging them not to try b/c it will look silly). Now, the hotel may not appreciate it - but that again is not illegal.

We keep all our videos encrypted to make sure things don't leak. Not that there's much I worry about but we do get high end celebs in here. If pictures or videos come out of them here there's only 2 people who could have "leaked" them and I'm one of them.

One time I had to get between a singer and her actor boyfriend when they were screaming at each other. I probably could have sold that (caught it on 2 cameras, no audio but they were pretty animated) but I would have gotten nailed and fired.

 

[Money]

That's what I've been trying to explain to these 2 guys. There is nothing illegal about them turning over the video to the NFL. Does not matter whether it was employee or law enforcement. The hotel/casino does not make the law. Nobody is violating some make believe hotel/casino law by turning over a video taken in a public place.

These 2 guys have yet to begin to state exactly what they think was "illegal" about it being turned over, (I'm begging them not to try b/c it will look silly). Now, the hotel may not appreciate it - but that again is not illegal.

Will it look more silly than you thinking it was a hotel employee who sent the the video to the NFL???

 

[HizzleRocker]

We keep all our videos encrypted to make sure things don't leak. Not that there's much I worry about but we do get high end celebs in here. If pictures or videos come out of them here there's only 2 people who could have "leaked" them and I'm one of them.

One time I had to get between a singer and her actor boyfriend when they were screaming at each other. I probably could have sold that (caught it on 2 cameras, no audio but they were pretty animated) but I would have gotten nailed and fired.

Sure. Because it would have been "unauthorized" by your employer. And probably rightfully so. But it would not have been illegal. Fired - Yes. Arrested (illegal) - No. Sounds like a pretty fun job you got though.

 

[Money]

Here is where someone might get confused:

A spokesman for the New Jersey attorney general's office said that it would have been "illegal" for the tape to have been disclosed by authorities to a non-law enforcement entity.

Ravens admit fault, NFL maintains it never saw Ray Rice video - Baltimore Sun