Rangers/Rays

[Al Falfa]

Torrealba will never be confused with Johnny Bench, but come on. Holland was serving up fat pitches in the heart of the plate and nobody is going to get away with that mediocre crap against a bad MLB line up much less a good hitting line up.
Harrison gave up 14 hits and 7 runs in 5 innings Friday night doing the exact same thing with Napoli behind the plate so it's kinda hard to lay it entirely at the feet of the catcher. Darvish's last start against the Yankees and Colby's last start should serve well as a reminder of what pitch location is all about. JMO.

 

[romeo212000]

Torrealba will never be confused with Johnny Bench, but come on. Holland was serving up fat pitches in the heart of the plate and nobody is going to get away with that mediocre crap against a bad MLB line up much less a good hitting line up.
Harrison gave up 14 hits and 7 runs in 5 innings Friday night doing the exact same thing with Napoli behind the plate so it's kinda hard to lay it entirely at the feet of the catcher. Darvish's last start against the Yankees and Colby's last start should serve well as a reminder of what pitch location is all about. JMO.

This is all true and holland is responsible for his bad outing. All I'm saying a good catcher can do things to help his pitcher succeed, and Torrealba isn't very good at those things.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Torrealba will never be confused with Johnny Bench, but come on. Holland was serving up fat pitches in the heart of the plate and nobody is going to get away with that mediocre crap against a bad MLB line up much less a good hitting line up.
Harrison gave up 14 hits and 7 runs in 5 innings Friday night doing the exact same thing with Napoli behind the plate so it's kinda hard to lay it entirely at the feet of the catcher. Darvish's last start against the Yankees and Colby's last start should serve well as a reminder of what pitch location is all about. JMO.

Defensively he will never be confused with Taylor Teagarden or Matt Treanor either. Offensively... is a different story.

 

[Al Falfa]

This is all true and holland is responsible for his bad outing. All I'm saying a good catcher can do things to help his pitcher succeed, and Torrealba isn't very good at those things.

Maybe so, but I'm not sure what those things are if the guy throwing the ball can't keep it out of the middle of the plate. If you continually pitch from behind in the count or throw belt high fastballs on 0-2 counts then the result is pretty predictable. Maybe Holland should put more effort into being a consistent MLB pitcher and less time on his look and comedy routine.

 

[Al Falfa]

Defensively he will never be confused with Taylor Teagarden or Matt Treanor either. Offensively... is a different story.

True, but Holland and Harrison weren't exactly being confused with Sandy Koufax either.

 

[1502tuley]

I don't think anyone is saying that Torrealba is the only problem the rangers have had. There are some consistency issues on the team, just like every other team in the league. Holland and Harrison both had bad outings their last starts, but those starts were the exception. Their other starts were great. The real issue is that Torrealba has been completely consistent, but in a bad way. He's been bad offensively and defensively in just about every start this year. That's not the type of player a true contending team should have have on their roster, especially if that player is a starter.

 

[Windingmywatch]

True, but Holland and Harrison weren't exactly being confused with Sandy Koufax either.

True... but they are closer to the Koufax end of the LHP continuom than Torrealba is to the Pudge end of the C continuom.

I remember being surprised early in last season's winter when TEX signed him as a FA to be its #1 catcher replacing Benji when his history was not as a #1. Then when TEX picked up Napoli I think we all saw him as Jeff Mathis' backup... not a defensive catcher by any measure. Turns out ... Napoli is quite a bit better than Torrealba not only defensively but in how well he works with the pitchers.

Torrealba wasn't able to tame Feliz difficulties last year. Took Benji's one-day visit to convince Felz of the need even as a closer to throw other stuff than a 4seam. Torrealba never tried to adjust.

Torrealba has had some luck throwing out runners ... but he's slow to move behind the plate to block pitches in the dirt especially to his right. Rather than move he prefers to try and reach across and pick the ball with his glove from the side.

Torrealba has a key role for TEX ... maybe he's #2 or backup ... but he's going to get far more than the weekly 1 game start that other backups get. He's filling a key role of far more significance than Brandon Snyder or Alberto Gonzalez. With TEX young starters ... TEX needs a backup who is expert at calling the game ... working with the pitchers. Solid behind the plate. I'm really not concerned about a high CS% or high BA in the backup.

Torrealba's ceiling limits TEX ceiling.

 

[Al Falfa]

True... but they are closer to the Koufax end of the LHP continuom than Torrealba is to the Pudge end of the C continuom.

I remember being surprised early in last season's winter when TEX signed him as a FA to be its #1 catcher replacing Benji when his history was not as a #1. Then when TEX picked up Napoli I think we all saw him as Jeff Mathis' backup... not a defensive catcher by any measure. Turns out ... Napoli is quite a bit better than Torrealba not only defensively but in how well he works with the pitchers.

Torrealba wasn't able to tame Feliz difficulties last year. Took Benji's one-day visit to convince Felz of the need even as a closer to throw other stuff than a 4seam. Torrealba never tried to adjust.

Torrealba has had some luck throwing out runners ... but he's slow to move behind the plate to block pitches in the dirt especially to his right. Rather than move he prefers to try and reach across and pick the ball with his glove from the side.

Torrealba has a key role for TEX ... maybe he's #2 or backup ... but he's going to get far more than the weekly 1 game start that other backups get. He's filling a key role of far more significance than Brandon Snyder or Alberto Gonzalez. With TEX young starters ... TEX needs a backup who is expert at calling the game ... working with the pitchers. Solid behind the plate. I'm really not concerned about a high CS% or high BA in the backup.

Torrealba's ceiling limits TEX ceiling.

We are talking about two different things. The original conversation was about pitching and assigning the blame to YT for Holland's crummy job of execution. If Torrealba was DFAed tonight it wouldn't bother me, but to blame him because Holland sucks is ridiculous.

 

[Al Falfa]

I don't think anyone is saying that Torrealba is the only problem the rangers have had. There are some consistency issues on the team, just like every other team in the league. Holland and Harrison both had bad outings their last starts, but those starts were the exception. Their other starts were great. The real issue is that Torrealba has been completely consistent, but in a bad way. He's been bad offensively and defensively in just about every start this year. That's not the type of player a true contending team should have have on their roster, especially if that player is a starter.

The main conversation in Holland's last two bad starts was the difference in halves last year. And to date this year he's sporting a 5.13 ERA. I see more up and down than than exception.

 

[romeo212000]

All I know is the trends I see when Torrealba catches anyone but Colby. When he catches holland for example he tries to get Holland to throw the kitchen sink in the first couple innings. Holland doesn't establish any one pitch and is just all over the place, and he doesn't know when to quit calling a pitch. Yes this might be the perfect time for a change up, but he hasn't been able to throw one for a strike all night. Instead of calling for a slider or curve he goes ahead and calls for the change up anyways. Holland never really looks totally confident when Torrealba is behind the plate.

When Napoli catches him he gets him to establish two pitches at the beginning of the game. His fastball and a breaking pitch. Usually his curve ball or his slider, whichever is working, but rarely his change up (which isn't effective enough to be a primary pitch right off the bat usually). Napoli lets Holland's stuff carry him, but saves something for later innings or a jam. Torrealba has him throw it all way too early and I think it never lets him get in the zone.

Maybe so, but I'm not sure what those things are if the guy throwing the ball can't keep it out of the middle of the plate. If you continually pitch from behind in the count or throw belt high fastballs on 0-2 counts then the result is pretty predictable. Maybe Holland should put more effort into being a consistent MLB pitcher and less time on his look and comedy routine.

Already discussed that in the post I quoted above.

 

[guitarmy21b]

I guess I should just get used to YT getting heat on here every time we lose...of if he's not playing, it's Wash's fault, or MY's fault. Maybe we're all too spoiled by how good the season has been so far, but it seems like there's no sense of "well tonight sucked, shrug it off & better luck tomorrow" anymore.

 

[romeo212000]

I guess I should just get used to YT getting heat on here every time we lose...of if he's not playing, it's Wash's fault, or MY's fault. Maybe we're all too spoiled by how good the season has been so far, but it seems like there's no sense of "well tonight sucked, shrug it off & better luck tomorrow" anymore.

No. I was that way Saturday. I'm just tired of watching Torrealba contribute nothing to the team but throwing our a few base runners and consistent god awful at bats.

 

[themush]

Not tryin' to rub it in, but i just read where that was Price's first win against the Rangers in his last 10 starts...

 

[jta4437]

Holland made some bad pitches and the Rays hit some good pitches, Holland was able to mostly pitch around HIS mistakes in the heart of the plate

I love how if Torrealba can't throw runners out (he's consistently been ABOVE the league average in his career) he sucks, but if he shows an ability to throw runners out, not to mention gunning down Longoria at 3rd last night he's lucky, get over it

But the point remains, he's adequate behind the plate, but if he's not hitting, he's expendable

 

[guitarmy21b]

Holland made some bad pitches and the Rays hit some good pitches, Holland was able to mostly pitch around HIS mistakes in the heart of the plate

I love how if Torrealba can't throw runners out (he's consistently been ABOVE the league average in his career) he sucks, but if he shows an ability to throw runners out, not to mention gunning down Longoria at 3rd last night he's lucky, get over it

But the point remains, he's adequate behind the plate, but if he's not hitting, he's expendable

Some are unrealistic with their expectations of a backup catcher's hitting ability. I guess fuck that guy if he can't hit .300

 

[jta4437]

Some are unrealistic with their expectations of a backup catcher's hitting ability. I guess fuck that guy if he can't hit .300

Well its not just that, he's failing to even make productive outs, but a lot of the hate is misplaced on the wrong attributes

- There's something to his game calling being suspects due to the fact that him and Napoli take turns with almost all the same pitchers without much "personal catcher" syndrome going on

- His hitting is around average for a catcher in his career, Just not at this moment

- His ability to throw out runners has almost always been above average in his career, so I don't get the hate there... whether you think he has "slow feet" doesn't seem to affect his throwing out of runners

 

[romeo212000]

Holland made some bad pitches and the Rays hit some good pitches, Holland was able to mostly pitch around HIS mistakes in the heart of the plate

I love how if Torrealba can't throw runners out (he's consistently been ABOVE the league average in his career) he sucks, but if he shows an ability to throw runners out, not to mention gunning down Longoria at 3rd last night he's lucky, get over it

But the point remains, he's adequate behind the plate, but if he's not hitting, he's expendable

It's not just his lack of hitting, but also how he always fails epically at the plate. I guess my thing is you're right. For a backup catcher he's perfectly serviceable. Problem is he's not bring played like a backup catcher. He's getting more starts than Napoli and that's bullshit.

 

[romeo212000]

Well its not just that, he's failing to even make productive outs, but a lot of the hate is misplaced on the wrong attributes

- There's something to his game calling being suspects due to the fact that him and Napoli take turns with almost all the same pitchers without much "personal catcher" syndrome going on

- His hitting is around average for a catcher in his career, Just not at this moment

- His ability to throw out runners has almost always been above average in his career, so I don't get the hate there... whether you think he has "slow feet" doesn't seem to affect his throwing out of runners

Who said anything about him throwing out runners. I said its pretty much his only redeeming quality.

 

[jta4437]

It's not just his lack of hitting, but also how he always fails epically at the plate. I guess my thing is you're right. For a backup catcher he's perfectly serviceable. Problem is he's not bring played like a backup catcher. He's getting more starts than Napoli and that's bullshit.

B/c til recently Moreland has been just as inept at the plate

I guarantee you if Moreland was hitting, Napoli would be at catcher more, not 1B

I'm guessing you'll see Napoli behind the plate more and more as the year goes on, but nothing wrong with keeping him as fresh as possible in the meantime

 

[jta4437]

Who said anything about him throwing out runners. I said its pretty much his only redeeming quality.

More than just you and me in this thread bucko