Random FF Thoughts

[TKOSpikes]

They kept at it with Justice Hill and with Henry watching.

It isn’t about the number of runs they had. It is about complete and utter failure to use their second best player.

I get that Hill handles the passing downs, and that is fine. But when he is on the field on early downs in neutral situations, that is a clear win for the defense.

Hill actually got their run game going (and was only six carries).

Anyway, I think the turnovers are being severely overlooked by everyone. If not for them, Henry has 20+ carries.

 

[tlance]

Hill actually got their run game going (and was only six carries).

Anyway, I think the turnovers are being severely overlooked by everyone. If not for them, Henry has 20+ carries.

Wasn’t the carries

Henry was on the sidelines while they ran play action with Hill.

That is wasting resources right there.

 

[tlance]

Abuse the rule put in place to protect QBs, what could go wrong?

A lot. Not the point.

Every competitor in every sport takes advantage of rules where they can to help their teams.

Dumb thing to criticize a player for.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Wasn’t the carries

Henry was on the sidelines while they ran play action with Hill.

That is wasting resources right there.

I don't know what to tell you. Hill played well at 8 ypc.

This has nothing to do with the final score. The three turnovers have everything to do with the final score. Baltimore didn't even punt.

The loss is on the turnovers, not on Henry's snap count.

 

[tlance]

I don't know what to tell you. Hill played well at 8 ypc.

This has nothing to do with the final score. The three turnovers have everything to do with the final score. Baltimore didn't even punt.

The loss is on the turnovers, not on Henry's snap count.

It has nothing to do with how well Hill played.

Defenses aren’t scared of Justice Hill. They are scared of Derrick Henry.

Put him on the sidelines and you are doing them a favor.

It is kind of like benching Michael Jordan in a playoff game because his backup made a few shots in a row. That is essentially what the Ravens did.

 

[wilwhite]

They kept at it with Justice Hill and with Henry watching.

It isn’t about the number of runs they had. It is about complete and utter failure to use their second best player.

I get that Hill handles the passing downs, and that is fine. But when he is on the field on early downs in neutral situations, that is a clear win for the defense.

Henry is their best player - he's a better RB than Lamar is a QB - but Lamar is more valuable because RB duties are limited.

 

[tlance]

Henry is their best player - he's a better RB than Lamar is a QB - but Lamar is more valuable because RB duties are limited.

I can’t really argue that.

 

[wilwhite]

The loss is on the turnovers, not on Henry's snap count.

Would more Henry mean fewer turnovers?

I'm pretty sure Lamar's INTs, strip-sacks and scramble fumbles were at a higher rate per dropback than Henry's 0.9% fumbles per carry.

 

[TREFF]

Would more Henry mean fewer turnovers?

I'm pretty sure Lamar's INTs, strip-sacks and scramble fumbles were at a higher rate per dropback than Henry's 0.9% fumbles per carry.

 

[TKOSpikes]

It has nothing to do with how well Hill played.

What is "it"? They lost because of turnovers.

Defenses aren’t scared of Justice Hill. They are scared of Derrick Henry.

Put him on the sidelines and you are doing them a favor.

They didn't punt.

It is kind of like benching Michael Jordan in a playoff game because his backup made a few shots in a row. That is essentially what the Ravens did.

No. It's nore like Horace Grant took six shots and hit five of them. But Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman had three crucial turnovers and two failed free throws with a minute left that cost the Bulls the game.

Would more Henry mean fewer turnovers?

I'm pretty sure Lamar's INTs, strip-sacks and scramble fumbles were at a higher rate per dropback than Henry's 0.9% fumbles per carry.

Would less throwing mean fewer touchdowns?

1st and 10...Henry for 1 yard
2nd and 9...Henry for 1 yard
3rd and 9...Lamar scrambles for first down
1st and 10...incomplete to Henry (drop)
2nd and 10...Likely 23 yard catch
1st and 10...Henry for 2 yards
Pass complete
Pass complete TD

1st and 10...Henry for minus 1 yard
2nd and 10... interception

1st and 10...Henry for 10 yards
1st and 10...Hill for 9 yards
2nd and 1...Hill for 11 yards
1st and 10...Lamar for 16 yards
1st and 10...sack
2nd and 14...Likely 5 yard completion
3rd and 9...Miller 16 yard completion
1st and 10...incomplete to Andrews (first time we can say they should have ran)
2nd and 10... sack fumble

1st and 10...Lamar for 11 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 7 yards
2nd and 3...Henry for 2 yards
3rd and 1...Andrews "QB sneak"
1st and 10...Bateman 42 yard completion
1st and goal from 2...Henry for minus 1 yard
2nd and goal from 3...sack
3rd and goal from 8...incomplete to Henry
FG

1st and 10...incomplete pass (2nd time they "should have" ran)
2nd and 10...Andrews 5 yard completion
3rd and 5...Andrews 9 yard completion
1st and 10...Hill for 11 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 12 yards
1st and 10...Hill for minus 2 yards (1st time we can say Henry should have ran, 3rd in total)
2nd and 12...incomplete pass
3rd and 12...penalty
3rd and 17...short pass complete
FG

1st and 10...Henry for 6 yards
2nd and 4...Henry for 3 yards
3rd and 1...Henry for 17 yards
1st and 10...Andrews 12 yard completion
1st and 10...Hill for 22 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 15 yards
1st and goal from 5...Henry for TD

1st and 10...short pass complete
2nd and 6...Henry for 5 yards
3rd and 1...Henry for no gain
4th and 1...Andrews "QB sneak"
1st and 10...Hill for minus 1 yard
2nd and 11...Andrews 16 yard completion punch fumble

1st and 10 from their own 12, final drive all passes... TD...conversion dropped (maybe we can say give it to Henry here)

But Henry's snap count had nothing to do with them losing.

Josh Allen threw for 127 yards and ran for 20. We won because of turnovers.

 

[tlance]

What is "it"? They lost because of turnovers.


They didn't punt.

No. It's nore like Horace Grant took six shots and hit five of them. But Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman had three crucial turnovers and two failed free throws with a minute left that cost the Bulls the game.




Would less throwing mean fewer touchdowns?

1st and 10...Henry for 1 yard
2nd and 9...Henry for 1 yard
3rd and 9...Lamar scrambles for first down
1st and 10...incomplete to Henry (drop)
2nd and 10...Likely 23 yard catch
1st and 10...Henry for 2 yards
Pass complete
Pass complete TD

1st and 10...Henry for minus 1 yard
2nd and 10... interception

1st and 10...Henry for 10 yards
1st and 10...Hill for 9 yards
2nd and 1...Hill for 11 yards
1st and 10...Lamar for 16 yards
1st and 10...sack
2nd and 14...Likely 5 yard completion
3rd and 9...Miller 16 yard completion
1st and 10...incomplete to Andrews (first time we can say they should have ran)
2nd and 10... sack fumble

1st and 10...Lamar for 11 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 7 yards
2nd and 3...Henry for 2 yards
3rd and 1...Andrews "QB sneak"
1st and 10...Bateman 42 yard completion
1st and goal from 2...Henry for minus 1 yard
2nd and goal from 3...sack
3rd and goal from 8...incomplete to Henry
FG

1st and 10...incomplete pass (2nd time they "should have" ran)
2nd and 10...Andrews 5 yard completion
3rd and 5...Andrews 9 yard completion
1st and 10...Hill for 11 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 12 yards
1st and 10...Hill for minus 2 yards (1st time we can say Henry should have ran, 3rd in total)
2nd and 12...incomplete pass
3rd and 12...penalty
3rd and 17...short pass complete
FG

1st and 10...Henry for 6 yards
2nd and 4...Henry for 3 yards
3rd and 1...Henry for 17 yards
1st and 10...Andrews 12 yard completion
1st and 10...Hill for 22 yards
1st and 10...Henry for 15 yards
1st and goal from 5...Henry for TD

1st and 10...short pass complete
2nd and 6...Henry for 5 yards
3rd and 1...Henry for no gain
4th and 1...Andrews "QB sneak"
1st and 10...Hill for minus 1 yard
2nd and 11...Andrews 16 yard completion punch fumble

1st and 10 from their own 12, final drive all passes... TD...conversion dropped (maybe we can say give it to Henry here)

But Henry's snap count had nothing to do with them losing.

Josh Allen threw for 127 yards and ran for 20. We won because of turnovers.

2 of the 3 drives that featured Henry ended in TDs. The 3rd was a FG.

For most of the rest, Henry was on the sidelines watching Justice Hill.

My analogy was good. Can’t keep your best player on the sidelines. Use him in play action and maybe you hit a couple more big plays. You aren’t behind the sticks trying to force the action.

Have him on the sideline and he has no more impact on the game than you and I.

At least use him as a decoy. Defenses respect him too much.

End of the day, they didn’t put up enough points and they left their best player on the sidelines for about half the snaps.

Inexcusable.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If simply handing off to Henry insured a win the 2020 Titans would of been Super Bowl champs. TKO is correct when he says turnovers were the reason the Ravens lost IMO.

 

[TKOSpikes]

2 of the 3 drives that featured Henry ended in TDs. The 3rd was a FG.

For most of the rest, Henry was on the sidelines watching Justice Hill.

My analogy was good. Can’t keep your best player on the sidelines. Use him in play action and maybe you hit a couple more big plays. You aren’t behind the sticks trying to force the action.

Have him on the sideline and he has no more impact on the game than you and I.

At least use him as a decoy. Defenses respect him too much.

End of the day, they didn’t put up enough points and they left their best player on the sidelines for about half the snaps.

Inexcusable.

Once again. The Ravens did not punt. Their offense was doing what they do, and if not for three turnovers, we're not even talking about this.

The interception came with Henry on the field, missing the block on Milano that forced the quick throw.
The sack fumble came on a bad snap. Hill was on the field, but not involved. Henry had one positive play on seven chances so far in the game).
The punch fumble came with Henry on the field (picked up his block this time)...almost unavoidable fumble.

 

[Chef99]

I really hope everyone doesn't start piling on Brian Schottenheimer.

The dude is just trying to get ahead and I wish him well.

As for anything else, we all know that Jerra is solely responsible for the mess that is the Cowboys.

 

[TREFF]

If simply handing off to Henry insured a win the 2020 Titans would of been Super Bowl champs. TKO is correct when he says turnovers were the reason the Ravens lost IMO.

I totally concede the point that the issue was turnovers.

The debate now is, would they have turned the ball over so much, had the used Henry more.

It can be assumed, no, most likely not, Henry rarely fumbles, and if it's in his hands it's not being intercepted (or strip sacked)

It can also be assumed that the Ravens may have a three and out or two, or three, resulting in a couple punts.. entirely possible. But if Henry is on the feild, you never know wether they get that converted or not.

It'll never be known. One way or the other

All that is known, Henry had less than 20 carries, and the Ravens lost. We also know that the Raven won every game in 2025 where they gave Henry 20 carries, and that in every game they lost, Henry had less than 20. I don't think it's a coincidence

 

[tlance]

If simply handing off to Henry insured a win the 2020 Titans would of been Super Bowl champs. TKO is correct when he says turnovers were the reason the Ravens lost IMO.

That isn’t what I am saying.

Not saying they should have handed him the ball 25 times.

What I am saying is that you absolutely cannot leave him on the sidelines watching Justice Hill play.

Might have lost anyway.

But the Ravens did not put their best foot forward and they made it easy on the Bills defense.

 

[tlance]

Once again. The Ravens did not punt. Their offense was doing what they do, and if not for three turnovers, we're not even talking about this.

The interception came with Henry on the field, missing the block on Milano that forced the quick throw.
The sack fumble came on a bad snap. Hill was on the field, but not involved. Henry had one positive play on seven chances so far in the game).
The punch fumble came with Henry on the field (picked up his block this time)...almost unavoidable fumble.

I understand your point.

Don’t think you understand mine.

I don’t care what the results were.

How can you justify having your best player on the sidelines as much as the Ravens did?

Might not have changed the outcome.

But you don’t bench your studs in the biggest games. That applies to fantasy football and real life as well.

 

[wilwhite]

Would less throwing mean fewer touchdowns?

2 of the 3 drives that featured Henry ended in TDs. The 3rd was a FG.

Henry rushes result in fewer turnovers than Lamar dropbacks. There’s no saying Henry wouldn’t have turned the ball over, but the odds are better.

(The Andrews fumble is a total outlier though. Only the second fumble by a receiver all year, I think.)

 

[TKOSpikes]

I understand your point.

Don’t think you understand mine.

I don’t care what the results were.

How can you justify having your best player on the sidelines as much as the Ravens did?

Might not have changed the outcome.

But you don’t bench your studs in the biggest games. That applies to fantasy football and real life as well.

I don't justify it. His first 11 touches (9 carries, 2 targets) resulted in two positive plays. A switch up isn't crazy. Hill brings something different. Henry was on the field plenty after that and would have been more so if not for three turnovers...the only time their offense was stopped...two of which, he was on the field.

The Ravens did not punt. That means their offense wasn't suffering. So why are we blaming their loss on their offense struggling because of who wasn't on the field "enough"?

 

[TKOSpikes]

Henry rushes result in fewer turnovers than Lamar dropbacks. There’s no saying Henry wouldn’t have turned the ball over, but the odds are better.

(The Andrews fumble is a total outlier though. Only the second fumble by a receiver all year, I think.)

He missed the block on the INT.

How does Henry affect the botched snap fumble?

Ravens scored despite Henry on the first drive. Henry was somewhat responsible for the pick on the second drive. Henry had one positive play before the sack-fumble on the third drive.

Their next five drives were four scores and the punch-fumble...all of which had plenty of Henry and a very well executed Hill change of pace.

I really don't see the confusion here.