Rak and Riley Update

[Sharkinva]

Orackpo averages 45 tackles per year. And 8 sacks per year. Is this worth 10 to 11 million yes or no

Woodley averages 7.1 sacks a year and made $10.2 million... and he is 29... so yes I would say so. Clay Mathews averages 8.3 sacks a yaer and he gets $13.2 million a year average. And trent Cole averages 7.9 sacks a year and makes $12 million a year.

And Finally Demarcus Ware.. the premier Sack master according to some has averages 11.7 sacks a year and HE is slated to make $12 million and count $16 million against the cap this year.

And yet we question if Rak is worth $10-11 million a year on average??

 

[gkekoa]

I agree on RAK. We can't find an upgrade at a better price.


I do believe we can find a comparable replacement for Riley at a reasonable price.

 

[gkekoa]

You are right, I dont fault those that say rak has an injury history and should not be paid like an elite guy. But then again Elite to me is the Clay Matthews range of $13 million a year. People are saying Rak should make LESS than Kruger.. there i got to disagree. And you write the deal with injury clauses in it. But to NOT make him an offer at all.. really??

Veteran players seldom sign a contract with an injury clause. He will be more insulted by that than just saying no.

 

[Sharkinva]

I agree on RAK. We can't find an upgrade at a better price.


I do believe we can find a comparable replacement for Riley at a reasonable price.

Like I said, when is the last time we said this and didn't end up like a blonde in Darren Sharpers hotel room?? Could we find a guy to play for cheaper?? Sure we could. Can replace his production AND knowledge of the defense for cheaper and still get solid production out of a free agent for less?? Probably not.

If so name me a better option that doesnt have questions of injury history that will come for less than $7 million and also has any sort of knowledge of our defensive system?

Here is a quote from Tandler saying basically what i have been saying all along....

What Riley ultimately gets paid may come down to supply and demand. There was a report that seven teams have contacted D’Qwell Jackson, released by the Browns yesterday. It is not known if the Redskins are one of those teams but you have to figure they have done their due diligence on Jackson. But the point is that there should be a reasonably healthy market at the inside linebacker position.
We know the Redskins have a high level of demand there with Fletcher retired, Riley on the free agent market, and the team having no viable starting options on the roster. They need to sign two starting caliber inside linebackers whether it’s Riley and someone else or two new players.
That leaves them in a weakened position in dealing with Riley. They may have to be willing to overpay to an extent to keep him so they don’t risk having to start all over in the heart of their defense.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Maybe that's the plan to start'over in the middle

 

[Sleepy T]

VT... I have seen posts saying he is worth no more than $3.5 million a year no matter what. By some of the same posters that were hoping we could sign Sean Lee if he became a free agent and though Dallas got a good deal at $7 million a year for an ILB who has not played a complete season in the past three years. Sorry but I happen to think Riley is worth a lot more than $3.5-4 million a year. Maybe not $7 million straight, but with incentives there should be no reason he couldnt reach that. And if I were him i would feel a bit slighted if the team I have started for told me I was worth only half what a guy who hasnt even been able to stay on the field was worth.

I don't disagree with you here. Riley 4-5 base with up to say 6/7 with bonuses. Rak the same type of deal, 8-10 base up to 10-11 with bonuses. I think those would be OK.

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe that's the plan to start'over in the middle

Considering all our other needs... does any one really think thats a good plan on any level?? We have at most three years left before we either have to pay RG3 on the level of other "franchise" QB's or cut bait on him. With obvious needs on the O-line, D-line at WR and in the secondary, starting over in the middle is just something we cant realistically afford with no first round pick and our list of needs.

 

[j_y19]

Name me one time, one, where we have said this and NOT gotten fucked?? Riley is better than Ellerbe, has a better health record than either Butler who just got an extension, or Lee whom every one thinks was worth the deal he got. He has steadily gotten better and likely will continue to improve.

How can we really get fucked? Shark, he's not THAT good. He's average. Yes, he led the team in tackles, but the defense is designed so your ILBs are free to be the tacklers. He also missed quite a few tackles, I bet he was a leader in that stat for ILBs. He also is a liability in pass coverage. But he does OK as a blitzer. SO he is just average. Hell, we may have an ILB already on the team that can duplicate his production. This is by no means a statement that I want him gone. I welcome him back because he is OK and he understands the defense so there is no learning curve. I am actually OK with your proposal that included a smaller base with incentives to get him to where he wants to be. I also have to believe that this has concept has been floated by the FO. Its not a new concept.

For all we know, Riley may want out of here. That actually would make more sense to me than him demanding he be paid elite money. I certainly could understand how a young player wants out of this mess. If you have a career that only lasts a decade or so, you could find yourself in a constant upheaval by staying here and watch your career go down the tubes. Ask Santana or cooley.

 

[Sharkinva]

How can we really get fucked? Shark, he's not THAT good. He's average. Yes, he led the team in tackles, but the defense is designed so your ILBs are free to be the tacklers. He also missed quite a few tackles, I bet he was a leader in that stat for ILBs. He also is a liability in pass coverage. But he does OK as a blitzer. SO he is just average. Hell, we may have an ILB already on the team that can duplicate his production. This is by no means a statement that I want him gone. I welcome him back because he is OK and he understands the defense so there is no learning curve. I am actually OK with your proposal that included a smaller base with incentives to get him to where he wants to be. I also have to believe that this has concept has been floated by the FO. Its not a new concept.

For all we know, Riley may want out of here. That actually would make more sense to me than him demanding he be paid elite money. I certainly could understand how a young player wants out of this mess. If you have a career that only lasts a decade or so, you could find yourself in a constant upheaval by staying here and watch your career go down the tubes. Ask Santana or cooley.

Simple, every time in the last 15 or so years that we have said (insert player name) is not that good and can easily be replaced on the cheap, we end up with a Josh Wilson, Madieu Williams, ect.

Secondly I doubt any of these guys are asking for elite money. Or do we now consider $7 million for an ILB elite??

But like I said, its the sentiment of fans always saying well this guy is just average that makes me hope he gets whats best for him. Because Redskins fans have a tendency to put their faith into the over hyped flashy player. If we had eight guys who were simply SOLID as Riley is on either side of the ball, we wouldnt be 3-13 right now though would we?

 

[gkekoa]

That is extremely well paid for an ILB of a 3-4.

 

[Sharkinva]

That is extremely well paid for an ILB of a 3-4.

Actually it would put him tenth on the list, and before you rail that he is not a top ten ILB, I would say that he is better than a few of the guys just outside that range. But seriously, you guys got me convinced, he wants too much and I hope he leaves the Skins. We will be much better off with who ever we bring in Im sure. Same for Rak. If they dont want to come back on the cheap, fuckem.

 

[gkekoa]

Actually it would put him tenth on the list, and before you rail that he is not a top ten ILB, I would say that he is better than a few of the guys just outside that range. But seriously, you guys got me convinced, he wants too much and I hope he leaves the Skins. We will be much better off with who ever we bring in Im sure. Same for Rak. If they dont want to come back on the cheap, fuckem.

Are you saying he's a top ten ILB in the league or just 3-4? He's about to be better paid than quite a few that are on their rookie contract that are far better such as Luke Kuechley and Kiko Alonso.

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you saying he's a top ten ILB in the league or just 3-4? He's about to be better paid than quite a few that are on their rookie contract that are far better such as Luke Kuechley and Kiko Alonso.

I dont care about other teams dude. I care about the Skins doing what it takes to keep their own good players. Riley has been a good player for us, not all pro. But he has been a good player for us and if we as a team and a fan base were not so enamored with everyone elses stars, we might actually treat our own players better than we have had a habit of doing.

But like i said, you guys win. He is average at best and deserves to either play for as little as we can get him for or we can get better production for less. And seeing as how they are both average at best and we can do better, I hope both he and Rak leave and quite wasting roster spaces. then maybe we can get some game changers in their place.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I really, really hope we don't lose Orakpo. There was a statement the OLB Jordan is bigger than Orakpo???
He was 248 last time I checked...he must be stuggling to hold on to that 12 lbs of muscle he added.
This is Orakpo's chance to be ELITE in D.C. ...We can add players around him, maybe just one more above average defensive FA would be huge. If it takes 60+mil over 6yrs...I'd do it. You can reward a model citizen who actually has averaged 10 sacks per year(excluding injury year).

Riley...will likely after testing the open market be re-signed for cheap. 3.5mil a year. no other organization is gonna pay him above 5

 

[Sharkinva]

Skinem... I have been beat into submission. Neither is elite, so I dont care if either is here. and in lite of the fact that neither is elite, I would sooner they go else where and we not waste any more time on them.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Skinem... I have been beat into submission. Neither is elite, so I dont care if either is here. and in lite of the fact that neither is elite, I would sooner they go else where and we not waste any more time on them.

lol! "Time to go mobileeeeee" I'm with you on not losing our players, I'd do whatever it takes to sign Orakpo, to show what type of organization we are. It looks bad to free agents and other young guys if you NEVER pay a guy some money. Especially now that we have some.
Besides...he's what, 26? He's been productive with nothing. I don't know any ELITE guys in the league right now on defense without at least 2 above average or elite teammates. He's NEVER had that. I've also come to realize, you're right on Riley. Riley's agent is doing his job and when the organization lets him walk, much like D.Hall last year...I'm sure Riley will be back at a better price. He may even shock "us" and be a consistent 10-15 tackle per game guy.

for the record while I'm all in for Orakpo....yes, I would be disappointed if Riley got 7mil a year HERE

 

[Sharkinva]

lol! "Time to go mobileeeeee" I'm with you on not losing our players, I'd do whatever it takes to sign Orakpo, to show what type of organization we are. It looks bad to free agents and other young guys if you NEVER pay a guy some money. Especially now that we have some.
Besides...he's what, 26? He's been productive with nothing. I don't know any ELITE guys in the league right now on defense without at least 2 above average or elite teammates. He's NEVER had that. I've also come to realize, you're right on Riley. Riley's agent is doing his job and when the organization lets him walk, much like D.Hall last year...I'm sure Riley will be back at a better price. He may even shock "us" and be a consistent 10-15 tackle per game guy.

for the record while I'm all in for Orakpo....yes, I would be disappointed if Riley got 7mil a year HERE

As I have stated, I have been beaten into submission. But I do have to ask, why would you be disappointed if Riley actually got a deal on par with what Ellerbe and Lee got last year, and by all accounts what Butler was asking for in San Diego?? Hell there are atleast three ILBs who made MORE than $7 million last year and didnt out perform Riley. Maybe if we actually had a pair of safety's worth a crap, a D Line that could actually apply a LITTLE pressure on the QB, and an offense that didnt hang the defense out to dry until the 4th quarter, Riley, RAK and Kerrigan might have been considered more than average. But when you got 3 out of four LBs dropping into coverage half the time, safetys who couldnt cover my grand mother, and almost no pass rush on a 3-13 team... every one looks bad.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Less then 24 hours to see if rack'gets'franchise nothing is going on with orackpo nothing

 

[skinz2winz]

As I have stated, I have been beaten into submission. But I do have to ask, why would you be disappointed if Riley actually got a deal on par with what Ellerbe and Lee got last year, and by all accounts what Butler was asking for in San Diego?? Hell there are atleast three ILBs who made MORE than $7 million last year and didnt out perform Riley. Maybe if we actually had a pair of safety's worth a crap, a D Line that could actually apply a LITTLE pressure on the QB, and an offense that didnt hang the defense out to dry until the 4th quarter, Riley, RAK and Kerrigan might have been considered more than average. But when you got 3 out of four LBs dropping into coverage half the time, safetys who couldnt cover my grand mother, and almost no pass rush on a 3-13 team... every one looks bad.

That is the most logic you have made on this subject to date.