Quin agrees to restructure

[TrustMeIamRight]

This is definitely true, but if the cap is going up several million a year, is giving up around $1 million per year of that now in order to free up a couple million in cap space immediately really all that bad?

For the current year -- it isn't that bad. But with how the Lions have back loaded many contracts and guys have huge hits coming up, like Stafford and Calvin, the extra money will be eaten up and then some.

And the cap hasn't gone up that much over the last couple years. It was up 600k in 2012. 1.9 in 2013. 2014 was the biggest jump at a little over 2 million, I believe.

I will say -- if this kindn of transaction wasn't the norm. It wouldn't be a big deal at all. Because of the monster rookie deals -- it unfortunately has been the norm for them to clear cap space by kicking the can down the road.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Is 95% a fact or an opinion.....Hmm, the Lions secondary sucks. That's a fact....So I guess your 95% is a fact as well.

95% was strictly a guesstimate.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

But paying cash for everything is unrealistic.

I pay cash for everything. I haven't had a credit card since college. I ran up like 10k on it and decided then and there -- If I can't pay cash for something, I don't need it -- the exception being a house and car.

 

[themuzzer]

I pay cash for everything. I haven't had a credit card since college. I ran up like 10k on it and decided then and there -- If I can't pay cash for something, I don't need it -- the exception being a house and car.

I've had 6 or 7 cars and paid cash for every one of them....I just walked or rode a bike till I was able to afford to pay cash.

I even bought a brand new one off the lot when I was 21 years old....Had to save for about 4 years but it was worth it.

 

[tpaulus_2]

For the current year -- it isn't that bad. But with how the Lions have back loaded many contracts and guys have huge hits coming up, like Stafford and Calvin, the extra money will be eaten up and then some.

And the cap hasn't gone up that much over the last couple years. It was up 600k in 2012. 1.9 in 2013. 2014 was the biggest jump at a little over 2 million, I believe.

I will say -- if this kindn of transaction wasn't the norm. It wouldn't be a big deal at all. Because of the monster rookie deals -- it unfortunately has been the norm for them to clear cap space by kicking the can down the road.

$2.4 million in 2013 and $10 million in 2014, so you're close there (not sure how you already forgot the cap jumped an even $10 million this year? That was both crazy and unexpected). They're projecting it to reach $160 million by the 2016 season based on the TV deals...

Now I'm still not arguing about the Stafford, Megatron, Suh deals, so let's stop comparing apples to oranges here. Quin's contract is a fraction of those other 3. I'd rather have the space right now to sign a guy or two we might like vs. having an extra $750k each year for the next 3 years. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul, yes, but Paul is set a a firmly fixed limit this year whereas Peter's limit looks set to grow by more than $30 million over that time span. Basically we're borrowing no more than (and likely quite a bit less than) $3.5 million of that to get some more cap space this year.

So, in summary, re-structuring mega-deals bad, re-structuring smaller deals, not so bad.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Think of it like taking an advance on your paycheck- you don't want to take too much and leave yourself screwed later (Stafford, Suh deals), but you also know each of your next three paychecks will be substantially larger than your current one, so you take a little (we're talking less than 1% of the cap total for each of his remaining three seasons on this restructuring) off each of those next three checks so you have the money to pay your bills now...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I pay cash for everything. I haven't had a credit card since college. I ran up like 10k on it and decided then and there -- If I can't pay cash for something, I don't need it -- the exception being a house and car.

Big difference between loans and credit cards. We weren't even discussing credit cards, in fact. Muzzer suggested that people should pay cash for their homes and vehicles because all loans are bad, which is simply unrealistic. Understanding what your borrowing is the key, and making sure your loan is right for you and fair is also key, but paying cash for purchases that exceed $10,000 isn't realistic.

If you have that kind of cash laying around you're either doing something illegal, or have very, very poor money management skills. Keeping that kind of cash in savings is costing you a small fortune down the road- cash of that amount should be invested to grow for the future, not tucked away to be spent when needed.

If you're averaging a %15 percent return on your mutual fund (or whatever you're investing in) and you can get an auto loan for 4% interest, why on Earth wouldn't you take the loan and invest the cash? If you have that kind of cash to spend you're basically shooting yourself in the foot by not using it more wisely...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I've had 6 or 7 cars and paid cash for every one of them....I just walked or rode a bike till I was able to afford to pay cash.

I even bought a brand new one off the lot when I was 21 years old....Had to save for about 4 years but it was worth it.

See above. Your "responsible" money management back then screwed you out of a shit-ton of money today. Had you taken out an auto loan instead, and invested the cash you spent on that brand new car it would have increased exponentially over that time frame. You'd literally be a millionaire right now.

Pretty smart decision you made there, I'd say...

 

[themuzzer]

See above. Your "responsible" money management back then screwed you out of a shit-ton of money today. Had you taken out an auto loan instead, and invested the cash you spent on that brand new car it would have increased exponentially over that time frame. You'd literally be a millionaire right now.

Pretty smart decision you made there, I'd say...

Your assumption is that investing always makes money....That's not the case. Who says I'm not a millionaire? You think I drive a school bus because I need the money?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Your assumption is that investing always makes money....That's not the case. Who says I'm not a millionaire? You think I drive a school bus because I need the money?

In the long run the only people who generally lose money investing are those who do it for a living a take the very high-risk, high-reward gambles. Yes, the market has peaks and valleys and there's going to be years where you loose your ass (2007-2009 were terrible is my understanding), butas long as you don't pull your money out and just ride it out it almost always climbs back up.

Sometimes a company folds and you lose your $$ on that particular stock, that's part of the beast, but as long as your money is well distributed you can absorb bad investments here and there. I stick with mutual funds because I'm a novice in that area and they are (generally) pretty safe. I steer towards the aggressive end of the mutuals because I'm young and can afford to ride any dips in the market for a long time since i'm not relying on that money till retirement.

Long story short, though, is that not all loans are bad. If you have the cash to pay for something that big it makes far more sense to me to invest it and take out a loan for the car. The difference between the return on investments (even at a low average) and the interest paid on an auto loan tilts heavily in the investment's favor. Yes, you might pay an extra $3,000 in interest on a four year loan on a brand new car, but in that same time frame you should be able to get at least a 50% return on the cash you would have plopped down on the car. If the car was $30,000 grand you're talking about a difference of about $12,000 if you can get a 13% return on your money for those four years. That's $12,000 more you'd now have.

Most wealthy people don't pay cash for big purchases because they know they can grow that money at a greater rate than the interest that they get charged for borrowing the money. Their AmEx Black card has like a 2% interest rate on it, so they just charge it. Obviously most of us don't have access to a credit card with that kind of interest rate, but we can still apply the same overlying principals. As long as you're generating a greater return on your money than you'd be paying in interest then it's in your best interest to get the loan and use your cash to make more cash...

 

[tpaulus_2]

The only reason I'm being so long-winded about this is I have been in this exact position. When I was 19 I had $6,400 in cash that I was going to use to buy a Jeep from my uncle. He insisted that I instead take out a loan and invest the money. He even offered to knock $200 off the price if I agreed to do so. I did invest it in a very basic mutual fund and I'm now very happy I did. Even through several shitty years in the market it has grown substantially. I saw a nearly 30% return on it last year (that's very atypical, though). I've since sold the Jeep for a newer vehicle (but I got a good run out of it).

 

[themuzzer]

In the long run the only people who generally lose money investing are those who do it for a living a take the very high-risk, high-reward gambles. Yes, the market has peaks and valleys and there's going to be years where you loose your ass (2007-2009 were terrible is my understanding), butas long as you don't pull your money out and just ride it out it almost always climbs back up.

Sometimes a company folds and you lose your $$ on that particular stock, that's part of the beast, but as long as your money is well distributed you can absorb bad investments here and there. I stick with mutual funds because I'm a novice in that area and they are (generally) pretty safe. I steer towards the aggressive end of the mutuals because I'm young and can afford to ride any dips in the market for a long time since i'm not relying on that money till retirement.

Long story short, though, is that not all loans are bad. If you have the cash to pay for something that big it makes far more sense to me to invest it and take out a loan for the car. The difference between the return on investments (even at a low average) and the interest paid on an auto loan tilts heavily in the investment's favor. Yes, you might pay an extra $3,000 in interest on a four year loan on a brand new car, but in that same time frame you should be able to get at least a 50% return on the cash you would have plopped down on the car. If the car was $30,000 grand you're talking about a difference of about $12,000 if you can get a 13% return on your money for those four years. That's $12,000 more you'd now have.

Most wealthy people don't pay cash for big purchases because they know they can grow that money at a greater rate than the interest that they get charged for borrowing the money. Their AmEx Black card has like a 2% interest rate on it, so they just charge it. Obviously most of us don't have access to a credit card with that kind of interest rate, but we can still apply the same overlying principals. As long as you're generating a greater return on your money than you'd be paying in interest then it's in your best interest to get the loan and use your cash to make more cash...

Great post. I was fortunate enough when I was a young buck to invest in a Bio Tech company back in the late 90s....I dropped around 30k into it and about 6 months later hoof and mouth disease hit and my company had already been researching and had drugs in phase 2 and phase 3 of testing....The storck soared.....I collected the money, paid my taxes left the military for a less stressful job (bus driver) now get my kicks paying cash for what I want. (oh and stirring the pot)

 

[tpaulus_2]

Well fuck, man, don't stop now. Double that money down get rich!

 

[themuzzer]

Well fuck, man, don't stop now. Double that money down get rich!

Nope, I made my money playing high risk......Now it's in CDs that are 100% safe and collecting the dividends.....I basically retired when I was in my mid 30's....I work to keep active and give back.

 

[gandydancer]

Name a team, and I'm sure I can find players they've re-structured to create cap space when needed.


Exactly- it's not the re-structuring that got us, it was the re-structuring of huge amounts of money with the idea that those players would later sign extensions to prevent having a $20 million cap figure in their contract year. Stafford and Megarton played ball and re-signed... Suh did not, and now we're fucked.

Give me one example all 12 playoff teams last year.

 

[Rollingthndr]

You guys can argue all you want. I just don't want to hear any complaining about how Suh left because his sister or bigger market or blah blah blah. Just know it's because Mini-Millen and Lewand.

 

[Microwahevo]

Just know it's because Mini-Millen and Lewand

But it won't be. It'll be bc Suh was drafted here and didn't wanna stay after his initial contract. If he did, talks wouldn't have stopped. So be prepared to hear a bunch of shit u don't wanna hear.

 

[Quackerjacked]

We'll see where he goes and for what type of money. He goes to the Seahawks, or 9ers on a normalish D tackle contract, then it's about being near home/ on a winner. He goes to New York for smaller contract it's about marketability. He goes to Jacksonville for stupid money it's about the contract numbers. If it's a normalish contract on a seemingly random team M and M screwed the pooch.

 

[gandydancer]

We'll see where he goes and for what type of money. He goes to the Seahawks, or 9ers on a normalish D tackle contract, then it's about being near home/ on a winner. He goes to New York for smaller contract it's about marketability. He goes to Jacksonville for stupid money it's about the contract numbers. If it's a normalish contract on a seemingly random team M and M screwed the pooch.

Careful Falcon...I said same exact shit two weeks ago and got hammered for it.

 

[Quackerjacked]

Thanks for the warning, but I do what I want. Cause when I look in the mirror is see a bad mutha that don't take no crap from nobody.