Question Regarding The GSOT

[ANGELAKERAMS]

i was watching clips of a football life about Dick Vermeil and after watching was curious what Rams fans thought.

Had Vermeil not let his emotions rule his decision to suddenly retire, do you think the GSOT would've had more success than under Martz?

I personally think the drafting would've been better. Martz seemed to always go for the workout warriors/speedy guys (ala Al Davis). They completely wasted those 3 first round picks in 2001 and there were some great players they could've taken at those spots.

I think terrible drafting really led to the downfall of the GSOT. Had Vermeil stayed and Martz kept as OC, more sound decisions in drafting would've been made IMO.

Your thoughts?

 

[Battlelyon]

Lets look at the Rams draft from 2000-2006

2006 1 1 15 15 Tye Hill DB Clemson
2 2 14 46 Joe Klopfenstein TE Colorado
3 3 4 68 Claude Wroten DT Louisiana State
4 3 13 77 Jon Alston LB Stanford
5 3 29 93 Dominique Byrd TE USC
6 4 16 113 Victor Adeyanju DE Indiana
7 5 11 144 Marques Hagans WR Virginia
8 7 13 221 Tim McGarigle LB Northwestern
9 7 34 242 Mark Setterstrom G Minnesota
10 7 35 243 Tony Palmer G Missouri
2005 1 1 19 19 Alex Barron T Florida State
2 2 18 50 Ronald Bartell DB Howard
3 3 2 66 Oshiomogho Atogwe DB Stanford
4 3 17 81 Richie Incognito C Nebraska
5 4 16 117 Jerome Carter DB Florida State
6 4 33 134 Claude Terrell G New Mexico
7 5 8 144 Jerome Collins TE Notre Dame
8 6 18 192 Dante Ridgeway WR Ball State
9 6 36 210 Reggie Hodges P Ball State
10 7 36 250 Ryan Fitzpatrick QB Harvard
11 7 37 251 Madison Hedgecock RB North Carolina
2004 1 1 24 24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State
2 3 28 91 Tony Hargrove DE Georgia Tech
3 4 34 130 Brandon Chillar LB UCLA
4 5 26 158 Jason Shivers DB Arizona State
5 6 36 201 Jeff Smoker QB Michigan State
6 7 36 237 Erik Jensen TE Iowa
7 7 37 238 Larry Turner T Eastern Kentucky
2003 1 1 12 12 Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State
2 2 11 43 Pisa Tinoisamoa LB Hawaii
3 3 10 74 Kevin Curtis WR Utah State
4 4 9 106 Shaun McDonald WR Arizona State
5 4 10 107 DeJuan Groce DB Nebraska
6 5 13 148 Dan Curley TE Eastern Washington
7 5 35 170 Shane Walton DB Notre Dame
8 5 37 172 Kevin Garrett DB Southern Methodist
9 6 11 184 Scott Tercero G California
10 7 37 251 Scott Shanle LB Nebraska
11 7 40 254 Richard Angulo TE Western New Mexico
2002 1 1 31 31 Robert Thomas LB UCLA
2 2 32 64 Travis Fisher DB Central Florida
3 3 19 84 Lamar Gordon RB North Dakota State
4 3 30 95 Eric Crouch WR Nebraska
5 4 32 130 Travis Scott G Arizona State
6 5 32 167 Courtland Bullard LB Ohio State
7 6 33 205 Steve Bellisari QB Ohio State
8 7 32 243 Chris Massey C Marshall
2001 1 1 12 12 Damione Lewis DT Miami (FL)
2 1 20 20 Adam Archuleta DB Arizona State
3 1 29 29 Ryan Pickett DE Ohio State
4 2 11 42 Tommy Polley LB Florida State
5 3 21 83 Brian Allen LB Florida State
6 4 21 116 Milton Wynn WR Washington State
7 4 34 129 Brandon Manumaleuna TE Arizona
8 5 14 145 Jerametrius Butler DB Kansas State
9 6 34 197 Francis S. Paul WR Northern Arizona
2000 1 1 31 31 Trung Canidate RB Arizona
2 2 31 62 Jacoby Shepherd DB Oklahoma State
3 3 32 94 John St. Clair C Virginia
4 4 10 104 Kaulana Noa T Hawaii
5 5 10 139 Brian Young DE Texas-El Paso
6 6 32 198 Matt Bowen DB Iowa
7 7 14 220 Andrew Kline

63 selections = 1 pro bowler player, Steven Jackson, who basically had a one great season and some other good seasons

If you go with the theory that you should be a good player if a first round pick, then 7 first round busts. Pickett was a good player for a few years.

Other notables,
O.J. Atogwe-had one great season, a few other good
Richie Icognito-a man that didn't live up to his last name, physical talent, but not the brains
Adam Archuleta-overrated safety that couldn't cover himself with a blanket

So we came apart, because Martz wasn't a head coach, just a glorified offensive coordinator and our drafts were horrific.

 

[Retroram52]

The overwhelming majority of those picks lasted a few years and left football prematurely. A couple got rings (Madison Hedgecock with the Geeants) and one or two are still playing like Ryan Fitzpatrick. The rest-a complete waste of time and energy.

 

[Caynine29]

Absolutely.

Mike Martz destroyed this team. I don't know that we would have been a "dynasty", or anything like that... but we definitely would have been MUCH better off had Martz never taken the reins.

 

[Retroram52]

Martz along with those lunatics Jay Zygmunt and John Shaw and that ridiculous owner.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

The 2001 draft says it all.

4 picks in the top 44 and you whiff on all 4 picks and the only decent one ( Pickett ) you let walk.

Can't stay relevant when you can't bring in any talent.

And I won't even get started on Martz's treatment of Warner ( basically throwing him to the curb ).

 

[UnrealTerm04]

Had Vermeil stayed with the Rams as the HC, Martz would have taken a HC position elsewhere. No way would teams pass him up after what Martz did with the offense.

 

[zeke2829]

Lets look at the Rams draft from 2000-2006

2006 1 1 15 15 Tye Hill DB Clemson
2 2 14 46 Joe Klopfenstein TE Colorado
3 3 4 68 Claude Wroten DT Louisiana State
4 3 13 77 Jon Alston LB Stanford
5 3 29 93 Dominique Byrd TE USC
6 4 16 113 Victor Adeyanju DE Indiana
7 5 11 144 Marques Hagans WR Virginia
8 7 13 221 Tim McGarigle LB Northwestern
9 7 34 242 Mark Setterstrom G Minnesota
10 7 35 243 Tony Palmer G Missouri
2005 1 1 19 19 Alex Barron T Florida State
2 2 18 50 Ronald Bartell DB Howard
3 3 2 66 Oshiomogho Atogwe DB Stanford
4 3 17 81 Richie Incognito C Nebraska
5 4 16 117 Jerome Carter DB Florida State
6 4 33 134 Claude Terrell G New Mexico
7 5 8 144 Jerome Collins TE Notre Dame
8 6 18 192 Dante Ridgeway WR Ball State
9 6 36 210 Reggie Hodges P Ball State
10 7 36 250 Ryan Fitzpatrick QB Harvard
11 7 37 251 Madison Hedgecock RB North Carolina
2004 1 1 24 24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State
2 3 28 91 Tony Hargrove DE Georgia Tech
3 4 34 130 Brandon Chillar LB UCLA
4 5 26 158 Jason Shivers DB Arizona State
5 6 36 201 Jeff Smoker QB Michigan State
6 7 36 237 Erik Jensen TE Iowa
7 7 37 238 Larry Turner T Eastern Kentucky
2003 1 1 12 12 Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State
2 2 11 43 Pisa Tinoisamoa LB Hawaii
3 3 10 74 Kevin Curtis WR Utah State
4 4 9 106 Shaun McDonald WR Arizona State
5 4 10 107 DeJuan Groce DB Nebraska
6 5 13 148 Dan Curley TE Eastern Washington
7 5 35 170 Shane Walton DB Notre Dame
8 5 37 172 Kevin Garrett DB Southern Methodist
9 6 11 184 Scott Tercero G California
10 7 37 251 Scott Shanle LB Nebraska
11 7 40 254 Richard Angulo TE Western New Mexico
2002 1 1 31 31 Robert Thomas LB UCLA
2 2 32 64 Travis Fisher DB Central Florida
3 3 19 84 Lamar Gordon RB North Dakota State
4 3 30 95 Eric Crouch WR Nebraska
5 4 32 130 Travis Scott G Arizona State
6 5 32 167 Courtland Bullard LB Ohio State
7 6 33 205 Steve Bellisari QB Ohio State
8 7 32 243 Chris Massey C Marshall
2001 1 1 12 12 Damione Lewis DT Miami (FL)
2 1 20 20 Adam Archuleta DB Arizona State
3 1 29 29 Ryan Pickett DE Ohio State
4 2 11 42 Tommy Polley LB Florida State
5 3 21 83 Brian Allen LB Florida State
6 4 21 116 Milton Wynn WR Washington State
7 4 34 129 Brandon Manumaleuna TE Arizona
8 5 14 145 Jerametrius Butler DB Kansas State
9 6 34 197 Francis S. Paul WR Northern Arizona
2000 1 1 31 31 Trung Canidate RB Arizona
2 2 31 62 Jacoby Shepherd DB Oklahoma State
3 3 32 94 John St. Clair C Virginia
4 4 10 104 Kaulana Noa T Hawaii
5 5 10 139 Brian Young DE Texas-El Paso
6 6 32 198 Matt Bowen DB Iowa
7 7 14 220 Andrew Kline

63 selections = 1 pro bowler player, Steven Jackson, who basically had a one great season and some other good seasons

If you go with the theory that you should be a good player if a first round pick, then 7 first round busts. Pickett was a good player for a few years.

Other notables,
O.J. Atogwe-had one great season, a few other good
Richie Icognito-a man that didn't live up to his last name, physical talent, but not the brains
Adam Archuleta-overrated safety that couldn't cover himself with a blanket

So we came apart, because Martz wasn't a head coach, just a glorified offensive coordinator and our drafts were horrific.

What's even worse is you have to look at some of the players that we passed on during these drafts. The one that sticks out in my mind, in 2005 we took Alex Barron and 5 picks later Green Bay selected Aaron Rodgers. There were others that's we passed on that turned out to be great players(Logan Mankins, Roddy White, Heath Miller, Lofa Tatupu and many more. This 2005 draft we really whiffed on!

 

[shopson67]

What's even worse is you have to look at some of the players that we passed on during these drafts. The one that sticks out in my mind, in 2005 we took Alex Barron and 5 picks later Green Bay selected Aaron Rodgers. There were others that's we passed on that turned out to be great players(Logan Mankins, Roddy White, Heath Miller, Lofa Tatupu and many more. This 2005 draft we really whiffed on!

The Rams would've thrown Rodgers to the wolves in 2005 and probably ruined him.

 

[SJ76]

i was watching clips of a football life about Dick Vermeil and after watching was curious what Rams fans thought.

Had Vermeil not let his emotions rule his decision to suddenly retire, do you think the GSOT would've had more success than under Martz?

I personally think the drafting would've been better. Martz seemed to always go for the workout warriors/speedy guys (ala Al Davis). They completely wasted those 3 first round picks in 2001 and there were some great players they could've taken at those spots.

I think terrible drafting really led to the downfall of the GSOT. Had Vermeil stayed and Martz kept as OC, more sound decisions in drafting would've been made IMO.

Your thoughts?

Yes I do. Martz went pass happy during the Super bowl against New England and was never the same. Chip Kelly has the same problem at times. Passing 4 out of 5 times ended up killing Warner for a few years and forgetting about Marshall in that Super Bowl definitely cost us.

That Eric Crouch draft pick in the 4th round still cracks me up. Martz lost his mind, while Vermeil kept the team balanced when they coached together.

 

[Caynine29]

Yes I do. Martz went pass happy during the Super bowl against New England and was never the same. Chip Kelly has the same problem at times. Passing 4 out of 5 times ended up killing Warner for a few years and forgetting about Marshall in that Super Bowl definitely cost us.

That Eric Crouch draft pick in the 4th round still cracks me up. Martz lost his mind, while Vermeil kept the team balanced when they coached together.

A lot of people forget about that ridiculous Eric Crouch pick.

...and here I wish I could.

 

[Retroram52]

That was the dumbest pick nearly of all-time Caynine!