QB options for next year

[flyerhawk]

I do agree that safety usually isn't a premium position in the draft and college pumps out so many safeties that a team can wait till later in the draft.

I'm not saying we should focus on safety. But the late first is a pretty good spot to get value at positions like safety. Or the 2nd round.

The truth is that the late first is usually not a great time to get pass rushers or QBs. You wind up getting the 3rd or 4th or 6th best player at the position which is just a complete lottery ticket. Better to grab the best value at a position of need, be that safety or guard or linebacker.

 

[JMR]

I'm not saying we should focus on safety. But the late first is a pretty good spot to get value at positions like safety. Or the 2nd round.

The truth is that the late first is usually not a great time to get pass rushers or QBs. You wind up getting the 3rd or 4th or 6th best player at the position which is just a complete lottery ticket. Better to grab the best value at a position of need, be that safety or guard or linebacker.

The other factor in the late 1st is that it seems in most draft classes, there are not 32 players with 1st round grades. That could be a contributor as to why we frequently trade down from there.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I'm not saying we should focus on safety. But the late first is a pretty good spot to get value at positions like safety. Or the 2nd round.

The truth is that the late first is usually not a great time to get pass rushers or QBs. You wind up getting the 3rd or 4th or 6th best player at the position which is just a complete lottery ticket. Better to grab the best value at a position of need, be that safety or guard or linebacker.

I agree that late first is a hard draft position to fill needs.

 

[flyerhawk]

The other factor in the late 1st is that it seems in most draft classes, there are not 32 players with 1st round grades. That could be a contributor as to why we frequently trade down from there.

And other times teams have players they rated as 1st rounders fall to them in the 2nd. Which is what Pete said happened with Hall.

I would imagine that just about every has their own grading system that factors in things like upside, position, draft slot and a host of other factors to come up with a draft board. And they basically just follow that board on draft day. If they see a player they rated as a 1st round talent available in the late 2nd they may move up to get him.

The teams that are consistently good are the teams that draft the best talent, regardless of position.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And other times teams have players they rated as 1st rounders fall to them in the 2nd. Which is what Pete said happened with Hall.

I would imagine that just about every has their own grading system that factors in things like upside, position, draft slot and a host of other factors to come up with a draft board. And they basically just follow that board on draft day. If they see a player they rated as a 1st round talent available in the late 2nd they may move up to get him.

The teams that are consistently good are the teams that draft the best talent, regardless of position.

Wondering which teams do you consider consistently good?

 

[flyerhawk]

Wondering which teams do you consider consistently good?

The Ravens are the first to come to mind.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Ravens are the first to come to mind.

Looking at their first pick last 5 years was interesting 3 WRs, one Safety and a LB. To me they seem to be drafting best available player at positions of need. Drafting late this was not a bad way to go.

 

[Screamin12th]

I thought Love did fine at safety. his play 100 % helped us win. Just need some one to take Diggs spot, a physical and fast 6foot 1+ 215+ pound safety. Eugene Robinson type.

 

[flyerhawk]

Looking at their first pick last 5 years was interesting 3 WRs, one Safety and a LB. To me they seem to be drafting best available player at positions of need. Drafting late this was not a bad way to go.

Exactly. And that's basically been their approach for most of the past 20 or so years since Newsome was GM. Don't overthink it. Don't reach for a player based on need or position.

IMO, the Seahawks have basically done the same thing the past 2 drafts. Which is why their results have been significantly better than years past when they drafted for need and tried to outsmart the league.

Mrs isn't completely off with his "draft only lineman in the 1st round". Teams need a lot of linemen. The represent nearly half the players on the field. But you also can't just ignore every other position.

Let's say we had the 15th pick in the draft. And the 2 best available linemen are a tackle and a edge rusher. Should we draft either of them? Drafting a tackle would mean either we are drafting a backup in the 1st round or we expect to bench one of Abe or Cross. We already have a slew of edge rushers(Taylor, Nwosu, Hall, Mafe). Do we really draft another just because that player MIGHT be better than them? Or do we ignore value and draft an interior linemen no matter whether the value is there, which is what they often did in the past?

This is the same issue I had with your draft a QB no matter who approach. We can't just throwaway picks on lottery tickets. If there is a QB that they like that is available then, by all means, they should take him. Last year, they only had one QB available when they drafted and he's looked... OK this season so far. Not sure if he'll ever be more than that. More importantly they didn't think he was worth it.

This year it may wind up that the only QBs available when we draft will be Nix and Penix. I'm not against drafting them but they are also only 3 years younger than Lock. Are we really better off drafting one of them and starting fresh or are we better off sticking with Lock and drafting a DT or LB or safety? I don't say this because I think Lock is anything special. He's a league average QB. In a league where most QBs are league average and only a few are truly exceptional. But any QB we do draft is much more likely to be either be a flop or league average than exceptional.

Whew. That was a lot of words. Didn't really expect to write this much.

 

[Anointed One]

Here is Q. Diggs current contract with the Hawks... His Cap hit is very high if we released him after the season... I guess it depends on how much the Hawks are willing to eat... I personally would love to move on with Love and a new safety... Diggs is over the hill at this point...

 

[flyerhawk]

Here is Q. Diggs current contract with the Hawks... His Cap hit is very high if we released him after the season... I guess it depends on how much the Hawks are willing to eat... I personally would love to move on with Love and a new safety... Diggs is over the hill at this point...

View attachment 349118

Hard to see us keeping Diggs and Adams. At least one of them is likely cut next year. Maybe both. A post-June 1st cut gets us more in savings than dead money, but of course extends the cap money into 2025.

 

[MrS]

The term dominant is used incorrectly by fans so often.

he was dominant in the college game. im standing by taking a nickel corner over a DT in the top 5 is stupid.

That simply is not how you build a football team. Forcing a decision to go for certain positions is a recipe for mediocrity.

7/9 previous years the niners picked OL, DL, or QB in round 1. the two years they didnt they had no 1st round picks. so basically EVERY SINGLE YEAR they drafted those spots. no WRs, no TEs, no S. seems like it worked out for them pretty damn well. and they have some of the best WRs and TE in the game, go figure.

now obviously not every player panned out, but thats not the point. they dominate on the lines and thats why they are so good. it makes their skill players better, it makes their QB better. you can draft those players later when you dominate at the line of scrimmage.

Dismissing Whitherspoon as being merely a nickel corner suggests your need to be right dwarfs any sense of objectivity.

but he is, thats what they drafted him to be

Calling Jalen Carter a dominant DT already doesn't help your case either.

dominant as a prospect and in college, obviously what happens in the league is still somewhat unknown. but given two possibilities, you take the more important position.

I guess you have to leave JSN alone for a week given the game last night so I get it.

still wouldn't have taken him, we have OL and DL issues that need fixing.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Post June 1st there are several players that if traded or released would save cap space. Seahawks will need to create some as even with only 40 players under contract they have no cap space to speak of.

 

[flyerhawk]

he was dominant in the college game. im standing by taking a nickel corner over a DT in the top 5 is stupid.

Calling Witherspoon a nickel corner is being intentionally obtuse. He plays both nickel and outside depending on situation. You know who else did that? Darrell Revis.

7/9 previous years the niners picked OL, DL, or QB in round 1. the two years they didnt they had no 1st round picks. so basically EVERY SINGLE YEAR they drafted those spots. no WRs, no TEs, no S. seems like it worked out for them pretty damn well. and they have some of the best WRs and TE in the game, go figure.

That's being pretty selective and wrong

2023 - No first rounder
2022 - No first rounder
2021 - traded the farm for a top 5 pick to draft a QB that isn't on the team anymore
2020 - Drafted Kinlaw and Ayuk in the 1st round
2019 - top 5 pick
2018 - top 10 pick
2017 - top 5 pick and drafted a center in the 1st round
2016 - top 10 pick
2015 - took a DT with a top 20 pick
2014 - took a corner
2013 - took a safety

now obviously not every player panned out, but thats not the point. they dominate on the lines and thats why they are so good. it makes their skill players better, it makes their QB better. you can draft those players later when you dominate at the line of scrimmage.

And as general rule, I agree. Build your lines. But not at the expense of the rest of your team.

but he is, thats what they drafted him to be

dominant as a prospect and in college, obviously what happens in the league is still somewhat unknown. but given two possibilities, you take the more important position.

still wouldn't have taken him, we have OL and DL issues that need fixing.

Witherspoon is on the field for every play. He plays nickel and outside because that's the best use for him. As a nickel corner, he can also rush the passer which is why he has 3 sacks. Despite playing both inside and outside he has some of the best advanced stats of ANY corner in the league.

I wanted them to take Carter. And he looks good so far but also only plays a minority of defensive snaps for the Eagles. And we don't know how he will mature.

But outside of Carter, there wasn't another player I would have preferred them taking over Witherspoon. Are you seriously suggesting they should have taken an OL player with the 5th pick?

 

[MrS]

Diggs, adams, dissly and lockett are obvious cuts.

Love lockett but 27m is too steep

 

[JMR]

Post June 1st there are several players that if traded or released would save cap space. Seahawks will need to create some as even with only 40 players under contract they have no cap space to speak of.

We go through this every year. The team will always be able to create cap space. They pay people good money to manage this, and they always figure it out. Cutting Diggs, Adams, and Geno is going to open up $31M. It may be more unpopular than letting those 3 go, but releasing Lockett adds another $7M. TL is probably still playing at a high enough level to keep around, but not at his current projected cap # of $26.8M.

 

[flyerhawk]

Diggs, adams, dissly and lockett are obvious cuts.

Love lockett but 27m is too steep

I think Diggs, Adams and Dissly are sure to be cut.

Lockett is a little trickier. If he stays healthy, I would imagine they keep him. Splitting the 18 million additional cap hit over 2 seasons and then expecting to find a replacement WR for him next season seems short sighted. They may restructure his contract but one more year with Locker, DK, and JSN makes a lot of sense.

 

[JMR]

Yeah, Dissly. Wow. $7M cap savings, can't see them having him on the roster at $10M. I think I am a bit confused in general on what we are doing at TE.

 

[MrS]

Calling Witherspoon a nickel corner is being intentionally obtuse. He plays both nickel and outside depending on situation. You know who else did that? Darrell Revis.

thats not even the point, picking a CB over a DT is bad drafting.

That's being pretty selective and wrong

2023 - No first rounder
2022 - No first rounder
2021 - traded the farm for a top 5 pick to draft a QB that isn't on the team anymore
2020 - Drafted Kinlaw and Ayuk in the 1st round
2019 - top 5 pick
2018 - top 10 pick
2017 - top 5 pick and drafted a center in the 1st round
2016 - top 10 pick
2015 - took a DT with a top 20 pick
2014 - took a corner
2013 - took a safety

to be fair, lynch took over in 2017 and in that time span they took one WR in round 1 which i missed. however, it was their second pick in round 1 that year.

but you can see with all their high picks they didnt take anything but OL and DL. if they had the #5 pick would they have taken witherspoon or carter? I think its hard to argue they would have chosen witherspoon.

And as general rule, I agree. Build your lines. But not at the expense of the rest of your team.

I dont see it as doing it at the expense of the rest of your team. some positions should never be taken in round 1 because they dont provide the value that other positions do.

lets say the TE from GA brock bowers is there when we pick, would you take him? at 20ish he would clearly be the "best player" available.

Witherspoon is on the field for every play. He plays nickel and outside because that's the best use for him. As a nickel corner, he can also rush the passer which is why he has 3 sacks. Despite playing both inside and outside he has some of the best advanced stats of ANY corner in the league.

I wanted them to take Carter. And he looks good so far but also only plays a minority of defensive snaps for the Eagles. And we don't know how he will mature.

witherspoon is a good player im not criticizing him at all, I think its bad drafting philosophically to take outside players over inside players in round 1.

But outside of Carter, there wasn't another player I would have preferred them taking over Witherspoon. Are you seriously suggesting they should have taken an OL player with the 5th pick?

ive clearly said they should have taken carter.

if we had taken carter, we dont trade away a 2nd for a 30 year old DL on the last year of his contract.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, Dissly. Wow. $7M cap savings, can't see them having him on the roster at $10M. I think I am a bit confused in general on what we are doing at TE.

We have been trying to have that special weapon at TE since Pete got here. Remember we gave Greg "cooked" Olsen $7 mill as well.