Q for Browns (or any) fans

[dtgold88]

And then what? Baker takes over the QB position in GB and the Packers give him 30 million per year while still paying Rodgers and giving up on their current 1st round QB investment?

Ok...then don't pay Baker and just have the 2 first rounders. And if they do like Baker and he performs maybe deal him or even Love.

 

[dtgold88]

If you believe that, why even pose such a trade?

I didn't pose the trade originally. someone posed it to me and asked if I'd do it. I'm inclined to answer direct questions and I said no.

 

[dtgold88]

Ever hear of Kevin Stefanski? There is NO guarantee he will be any better than Freddie.

True...but we already know Freddie is a complete dunderhead. Still a chance Stefanski is a good coach.

 

[dtgold88]

Why would anyone use such a defense? To suggest Mayfield's in the same general category as Rodgers is laughable.

Uh huh.

what is laughable is ignoring a stat that takes in all aspects of being a QB and whether or not he made each play a success.....and also has no agenda in its findings.

Is Baker a better QB than Rodgers? In his career certainly not and Baker can only hope to get to that level. No one said he would.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Let's forget for a moment about the cap hit that prevents any trade of Rodgers - and just look at the basics.

The Browns wouldn't want to do this. They would have to pay Rodgers, and probably would have to trade more to make it work. You have, maybe, 2 years of Aaron left before you would really have to start looking at his replacement, meaning you are back in the same boat you are now, and last year, in just 2 years. It would be easier to stick with the plan, build around Mayfield, and see if he can lead this team with the upgrades around him. Find out now, without killing your cap, if Baker is the QB for the future. If he is, then great - his cap would still likely be less than Rodgers, and isn't due for a few more years anyway. If he faulters, you are back in the same boat you would be with Rodger by drafting another young QB, but at this point, you would still have a lot of cap flexibility since neither QB would be taking up a huge chunk of salary.

GB doesn't do this because they are all-in on Love, and getting Baker to start over Rodgers would probably be worse for Love's long-term development. No way Baker would be happy knowing he's going to a place to be a holder for another QB. He's already got some questionable leadership skills and qualities, and I don't think that putting him in a position like this would do much to improve those. He's better off in Cleveland where he knows, at least for the time being, he is the guy they are building around. Not in GB where he's the guy warming the seat for another QB. GB also didn't do a ton to upgrade around Rodgers - and they'll need him (or an experienced QB) who can help off-set subpar play in other areas. So far, that has not been a positive that Mayfield has shown. Add in trying to come in and learn a new system, and a whole new set of players/teammates and everything else involved - and you woudn't just be taking a step back from Rodgers to Baker, but a HUGE step back. This isn't to pick on Mayfield, but just to underscore the task that would be in front of him - would be tough for any number of QB's, let alone a 3rd year starter still looking to find some stability and growth in his game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Won't ever happen so really doesn't matter, for a number of reasons.

But even in this huge what-if scenario:

For GB: It doesn't make sense for GB bc they trade Rodgers to get Baker, but they have Love who is their future QB...Baker doesn't bring much value to this trade for GB for this reason alone. The only reason they would do this is for the two 1st rounders.

For CLE: They will give up their future for years to come depending on a 36 year old QB. If they don't win a SB in that timeframe which could be 3-4 years but also could be one year...one injury away from a disaster also. They have a a very young roster so instead of keeping Baker and letting the process play out for at least one more year, they trade their future for an older QB.

So basically even if GB did want to trade Rodgers it wouldn't make sense for either team. GB would want future picks with a valuable asset to go along...either a defensive stud or weapon for Love. (Njoku isn't much of an asset in this trade either)

 

[Mofo]

what is laughable is ignoring a stat that takes in all aspects of being a QB and whether or not he made each play a success.....and also has no agenda in its findings.

Is Baker a better QB than Rodgers? In his career certainly not and Baker can only hope to get to that level. No one said he would.

There's no comparison. Rodgers isn't the best guy who's ever played the position, but he is consistently one of the top QBs year in and year out. Nitpicking him on some single stat succeeds in neither casting doubt on his quality, or insinuating that Baker Mayfield is comparable in some way.

Mayfield's a low-tier starter-caliber QB in the NFL, which is pretty good considering the Brown's miserable struggles over the years. I'm not sure how many other teams' fans can take pride in saying something like, "best QB since Bernie Kosar". Maybe that's uncharitable- we're not even sure yet if Mayfield's better than the great Derek Anderson...

 

[dtgold88]

There's no comparison. Rodgers isn't the best guy who's ever played the position, but he is consistently one of the top QBs year in and year out. Nitpicking him on some single stat succeeds in neither casting doubt on his quality, or insinuating that Baker Mayfield is comparable in some way.

Mayfield's a low-tier starter-caliber QB in the NFL, which is pretty good considering the Brown's miserable struggles over the years. I'm not sure how many other teams' fans can take pride in saying something like, "best QB since Bernie Kosar". Maybe that's uncharitable- we're not even sure yet if Mayfield's better than the great Derek Anderson...

Most years Rodgers is one of the top (maybe even the top), but not last year. Not really sure what you are trying to debate..... That a stat that looks at every play made by the QB and was it a successful play or not does not matter? Or are you just pretending 2019 never happened?

Rest of your comment was just deflection.

 

[GNG]

Not if it is a trade you doesn't guarantee shit.

Why would the Packers trade possibly the best QB in the NFL? Jordan Love still has to prove he can play that position at a high level. Talk of a trade is laughable.

 

[GNG]

Are you high? He is a first ballot hall of famer.

Only a Patriots fan would think differently.

 

[Wamu]

There's no comparison. Rodgers isn't the best guy who's ever played the position, but he is consistently one of the top QBs year in and year out. Nitpicking him on some single stat succeeds in neither casting doubt on his quality, or insinuating that Baker Mayfield is comparable in some way.

Mayfield's a low-tier starter-caliber QB in the NFL, which is pretty good considering the Brown's miserable struggles over the years. I'm not sure how many other teams' fans can take pride in saying something like, "best QB since Bernie Kosar". Maybe that's uncharitable- we're not even sure yet if Mayfield's better than the great Derek Anderson...

I'm not ready to call him a low-tier starting QB just yet. He had a record setting rookie year in someone else's offense. Then stuggled greatly under a playing calling coach that was in way over his head. Freddie had no business being a HC.

And before you try to say I'm defending Mayfield because I'm a Browns fan I'm not. I actually can't stand the jackass. But I have to support him becuase he's the QB of my team. If there's a season this year's a make or break year for him.

 

[Mofo]

Most years Rodgers is one of the top (maybe even the top), but not last year. Not really sure what you are trying to debate..... That a stat that looks at every play made by the QB and was it a successful play or not does not matter? Or are you just pretending 2019 never happened?

• Me: "Aaron Rodgers is pretty consistently at the top as a QB"
• You: "Not 2019. Baker was good!"
• Me: "One year or one stat doesn't reverse a trend. Baker isn't comparable to Rodgers."
• You: "2019!"

Rest of your comment was just deflection.

Look at the stats Mayfield put up for 2019. They're not 'good'. It's honestly like saying David Garrard and Kyle Orton are comparable in some way to Tom Brady, because 2008.

 

[GNG]

The other issue is that AR isn't a HOF yet. How we just call him a potential HOF which would be accurate.

Yes, you are retarded.

 

[GNG]

Shhhhhhhh this is the hoop and there will be no ill words of Mr. Rodgers.
Shit I'm starting to think ESPN may own this site.

Most folks here realize how talented he is.

 

[dtgold88]

• Me: "Aaron Rodgers is pretty consistently at the top as a QB"
• You: "Not 2019. Baker was good!"
• Me: "One year or one stat doesn't reverse a trend. Baker isn't comparable to Rodgers."
• You: "2019!"

Look at the stats Mayfield put up for 2019. They're not 'good'. It's honestly like saying David Garrard and Kyle Orton are comparable in some way to Tom Brady, because 2008.

Here's a flash....this hypothetical is about the now. Not top AR. and last season AR was at best just solid.

I applaud you for your excellent deflection and ignoring a stat that takes every play made by the QB and whether it was a positive play for the team or not. Not all stats for a play are created equally, my friend. A 15 yard pass on 3rd and 22 not the same for the team as on on 3rd and 10. a hail Mary INT not the same as an INT in middle of the first Qtr.

me - why do you ignore such a stat that looks at every play and whether it was positive or negative?
you - crickets

Never mind I never said Baker was good in 2019. Kind of sad when you need to resort to make something up to try and prove a point. In fact, I have acknowledged Baker was awful in 2019.

 

[Mofo]

I'm not ready to call him a low-tier starting QB just yet. He had a record setting rookie year in someone else's offense. Then stuggled greatly under a playing calling coach that was in way over his head. Freddie had no business being a HC.

And before you try to say I'm defending Mayfield because I'm a Browns fan I'm not. I actually can't stand the jackass. But I have to support him becuase he's the QB of my team. If there's a season this year's a make or break year for him.

Mayfield's somewhere between 12th best and 25th best over the last two seasons. It's not much of a body of work to assign an aggregate score, but it looks to be bottom half. He's clearly not scrapheap or a temporary option, and I think even with another mediocre season, he'd still be the starter in 2021.

The guy had receivers in 2019. The team had a decent rushing game. Pinning the whole mess on Kitchens or an inconsistent defense is a cop-out. A high-tier starting QB can steal a few close games, even if he's surrounded by a crappy team.

 

[Wamu]

Mayfield's somewhere between 12th best and 25th best over the last two seasons. It's not much of a body of work to assign an aggregate score, but it looks to be bottom half. He's clearly not scrapheap or a temporary option, and I think even with another mediocre season, he'd still be the starter in 2021.

The guy had receivers in 2019. The team had a decent rushing game. Pinning the whole mess on Kitchens or an inconsistent defense is a cop-out. A high-tier starting QB can steal a few close games, even if he's surrounded by a crappy team.

So mentioning the bad play calling from an inexperienced coach is a cop-out? Okay. We'll just agree to disagree on that one.

It's always easy for someone to be overly critical when talking about a player they don't like.

I get it. You don't like the Browns or Mayfield. But blaming the defense for how badly the offense performed under a rookie HC is hilarious.

 

[dtgold88]

Mayfield's somewhere between 12th best and 25th best over the last two seasons. It's not much of a body of work to assign an aggregate score, but it looks to be bottom half. He's clearly not scrapheap or a temporary option, and I think even with another mediocre season, he'd still be the starter in 2021.

The guy had receivers in 2019. The team had a decent rushing game. Pinning the whole mess on Kitchens or an inconsistent defense is a cop-out. A high-tier starting QB can steal a few close games, even if he's surrounded by a crappy team.

Baker was solid and better than expected in 2018. a disaster in 2019.

And, yes, it is fair to put nearly all the blame on the coach. The OC would put together a game plan and Freddie would ignore it. It was clear to anyone Baker was best in 12 formations and struggled in some others.....Freddie used 12 sets on a limited basis and ran the plays where he struggled.

wasn't an accident with adults in charge in 2018 after Haley was canned there were few QBs in the entire league who played better than him...and he was a rookie who went through a midseason coaching change.

Can he be the guy we saw in 2018 again? Can't be sure, but certainly seems as likely he can as there is he's the guy we saw in 2019.

Definitely no excuses for him this year as there seems to be a coach who will play to his strengths (12 personnel, play action, quick passes, etc) and I cannot think of many QBs (if any) who have more talent on offense with them.

 

[Mofo]

Here's a flash....this hypothetical is about the now. Not top AR. and last season AR was at best just solid.

I applaud you for your excellent deflection and ignoring a stat that takes every play made by the QB and whether it was a positive play for the team or not. Not all stats for a play are created equally, my friend. A 15 yard pass on 3rd and 22 not the same for the team as on on 3rd and 10. a hail Mary INT not the same as an INT in middle of the first Qtr.

me - why do you ignore such a stat that looks at every play and whether it was positive or negative?
you - crickets

Never mind I never said Baker was good in 2019. Kind of sad when you need to resort to make something up to try and prove a point. In fact, I have acknowledged Baker was awful in 2019.

So you are taking the Brady-wasn't-tops-in-2008-so-other-QBs-are-better argument. *fart noise.

 

[dtgold88]

So mentioning the bad play calling from an inexperienced coach is a cop-out? Okay. We'll just agree to disagree on that one.

It's always easy for someone to be overly critical when talking about a player they don't like.

I get it. You don't like the Browns or Mayfield. But blaming the defense for how badly the offense performed under a rookie HC is hilarious.

To be fair, I don't think he blamed the D....seemed like he agreed blaming the D for anything Baker did was absurd. On that I agree. But agree with you it was mostly Freddie. He was easily the worst Browns HC I have ever seen. Let that sink in.