Pryor's a Raider!

[DChero]

I meant a rapist.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I meant a rapist.

:pops:

I love how seriously he took you.

 

[DChero]

To be honest, the formula for a winning quarterback in no secret. Football IQ, arm strength/accuracy, a cool head, and a small ego when it comes to their teammates. Think about guys like Brady, the Mannings, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, etc. How many of them are speedsters? How many rely more on athletic ability than their mentality?

 

[RaiderZar]

So far, I think the thought of a hybrid QB has failed. Vick has shown spurts of 'greatness' & last year was a damn good year. The VY experience failed greatly. Timmy T. seems to have rounded into the bust projected. Prototype, pocket passer, with brains & an arm & the knack to scramble, when necessary, is the way to go. Not too many college programs spitting those out anymore, though.

 

[MW49ers5]

So it makes sense when we go to the chart.

LMFAO!!!...Just publish it, Baby!

 

[clyde_carbon]

LMFAO!!!...Just publish it, Baby!

Commitment to pseudo trade value charts!

 

[clyde_carbon]

So far, I think the thought of a hybrid QB has failed. Vick has shown spurts of 'greatness' & last year was a damn good year. The VY experience failed greatly. Timmy T. seems to have rounded into the bust projected. Prototype, pocket passer, with brains & an arm & the knack to scramble, when necessary, is the way to go. Not too many college programs spitting those out anymore, though.

It's still unfathomable to me that NFL GMs are still taking chances on the dual-threat all-star college QBs high in the draft. These QBs are/were playmakers in college, but are far from being traditional or conventional NFL QBs. I'm still in shock that QBs like Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, and Vince Young were taken in the first round. Maybe these GMs are so stubborn that they think their particular coaching staff and environment is right to develop these types of QBs, but the numbers don't lie - these QBs by and large turn out to be busts.

I realize that it this is a business and the objective is to sell as much tickets and merchandise as possible - but that happens when the team wins. Cam Newton and Tim Tebow will garner their respective teams a lot of money in the short-run, but what happens when they bust and the team is back to square one in four years?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Terrelle Pryor officially joins the Raiders | ProFootballTalk

 

[DChero]

I fully believe that the only legitimate starters to come out of the first round in the last few years have been Bradford and Stafford. Andrew Luck looks like he'll join them soon. Speed and the ability to scramble, to me, are overrated. If you're quarterback has to scramble more than twice a game, something's wrong. It just means that they look better after not being able to get rid of the ball.

 

[Ginger]

I am really not into football and just stumbled onto your thread here but I think Cam Newton has a chance to be a good player. Don't think much of these other guys though.

 

[DChero]

I am really not into football and just stumbled onto your thread here but I think Cam Newton has a chance to be a good player. Don't think much of these other guys though.

That biggest knock on Cam Newton is his football IQ. He's never run a complex offense before, he hasn't had to run many plays from taking snaps under the center (was mainly in the shotgun), and most rookie quarterbacks usually aren't ready to start because the speed of the game is much faster.

In short, the knock on Cam from a lot of scouts and writers is that he hasn't shown that he's smart enough to counter NFL-level defenses.

 

[Vadered]

To be honest, the formula for a winning quarterback in no secret. Football IQ, arm strength/accuracy, a cool head, and a small ego when it comes to their teammates. Think about guys like Brady, the Mannings, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, etc. How many of them are speedsters? How many rely more on athletic ability than their mentality?

I would add one thing to this list. The QB needs to have a bit of swagger, rather than a small ego, but you are right in that they need to know when to put the team first.

That biggest knock on Cam Newton is his football IQ. He's never run a complex offense before, he hasn't had to run many plays from taking snaps under the center (was mainly in the shotgun), and most rookie quarterbacks usually aren't ready to start because the speed of the game is much faster.

In short, the knock on Cam from a lot of scouts and writers is that he hasn't shown that he's smart enough to counter NFL-level defenses.

Like somebody else said, there really aren't that many college programs that turn out high level QBs like that anymore. An NFL coordinator's dream QB would be somebody in a pass heavy program, with decent but not stellar surrounding talent, who was trusted to audible and did so (who audibles in college anymore?), and was very successful. Somebody who has run an offense before, so the only real adjustments they need are the speed of the game and reading more complex defenses. So many QBs come out of school and you can't be sure they can read COLLEGE level defenses because their wide outs just burned the man coverage or they started running if the second receiver was covered. That's why guys like Scott Tolzien out of Wisconsin have an outside shot in the NFL even though they can't run like Newton or Vick - because decision making is the number one thing you need for a guy who gets the ball EVERY PLAY.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I would add one thing to this list. The QB needs to have a bit of swagger, rather than a small ego, but you are right in that they need to know when to put the team first.



Like somebody else said, there really aren't that many college programs that turn out high level QBs like that anymore. An NFL coordinator's dream QB would be somebody in a pass heavy program, with decent but not stellar surrounding talent, who was trusted to audible and did so (who audibles in college anymore?), and was very successful. Somebody who has run an offense before, so the only real adjustments they need are the speed of the game and reading more complex defenses. So many QBs come out of school and you can't be sure they can read COLLEGE level defenses because their wide outs just burned the man coverage or they started running if the second receiver was covered. That's why guys like Scott Tolzien out of Wisconsin have an outside shot in the NFL even though they can't run like Newton or Vick - because decision making is the number one thing you need for a guy who gets the ball EVERY PLAY.

I disagree. Pass heavy offenses usually means spread offenses, and that's not an NFL's coordinator's dream. I'd venture to say that they'd rather take QBs from pro-style, 50-50 balanced offenses, where the QB is required to to read defenses from the 3, 5 and 7 step drops and more importantly, off of the playaction. In pass heavy offenses the playaction is almost nonexistent.

This is one of the main reasons I was huge on Matthew Stafford as a prospect - he was deadly off the playaction. That shows me that he can read defenses and scan the field in a split-second.

 

[DChero]

I think we're all in agreement that playaction passes from under center are key. I'd also like to point out that it's the guy that can make his tight end a factor. Checking down to the tight end is something that a notice the better QBs more than some of the posers. Look the majority of the TEs in the league with 6 tds or more. Most of them are there because their QB recognizes the extra target in the red zone rather than panicking and trying to make something happen on their feet.

There are some exceptions to the rule, but this is meant to be factored in with other key components.

 

[Vadered]

Yes, you are correct, I did mean a pro-style offense, but one which passed more than it ran. And the guy I linked, Scott Tolzien, was actually on a RUN heavy team, but that didn't stop an NFL team from picking him up post-draft. And like you said, play-action was huge at Wisconsin.

(Can you tell I'm a Badger fan?)

 

[clyde_carbon]

I think we're all in agreement that playaction passes from under center are key. I'd also like to point out that it's the guy that can make his tight end a factor. Checking down to the tight end is something that a notice the better QBs more than some of the posers. Look the majority of the TEs in the league with 6 tds or more. Most of them are there because their QB recognizes the extra target in the red zone rather than panicking and trying to make something happen on their feet.

There are some exceptions to the rule, but this is meant to be factored in with other key components.

Good point, though I'd be wary of a QB who checks down too much. That might mean he's missing a lot of opportunities down the field.

 

[clyde_carbon]

This is hilarious:

Raiders to Pryor: Jersey #2 has too many bad memories - Shutdown Corner - NFLBlog - Yahoo! Sports

 

[DChero]

Thanks, Clyde. I got a nice laugh reading that.

 

[SuperFlyer13]

This thread is stupid and confusing, do any of you even watch football? Fuckin Pryor isn't even being considered a QB prospect on the Raiders???? I think right now they are trying to fit him in at a tight end position. And you 49er fans talkin smack about a teams demise is priceless, you have all the talent (Except QB) and still can't win your piss poor division, lol..

 

[DChero]

This thread is stupid and confusing, do any of you even watch football? Fuckin Pryor isn't even being considered a QB prospect on the Raiders???? I think right now they are trying to fit him in at a tight end position. And you 49er fans talkin smack about a teams demise is priceless, you have all the talent (Except QB) and still can't win your piss poor division, lol..

Keep in mind, the big story isn't really Pryor being on a team or where he is on the depth chart, it's giving up what looks to be an early third round pick for him.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not bashing Raiders fans. They're the victims. The problem, as I see it, is Al Davis drafting notable names rather then what will actually help his team.