politics thread

[Stymietee]

Because one political side is far more violent, and the numbers fully support that.

Ahhh the rich vs poor argument huh?

 

[gkekoa]

As a stand alone, you would be correct, but we aren't talking about that are we? We are talking about how our system is constructed. If you need a court order, then that's what you get. It's the best that we have at this time! In comparison to COINTELPRO, this is nothing!

It depends. Do you believe Obama had knowledge of this? Isn’t he the head of the DNC as POTUS, realistically? He is most definitely the highest ranking member of the DNC. Do you think Obama authorized this? If Obama thought this was going on, why didn’t he stop it?

Now the real question...did Obama use the law enforcement agencies to spy on the opposition party during a presidential campaign without legitimate cause? The answer is yes. Whether he did this without knowledge of falsehoods involved in the intel is not relevant. If he believed the falsehoods, he is inept, if he knew about them, he is corrupt.

 

[gkekoa]

Ahhh the rich vs poor argument huh?

Nope...the violent versus non-violent argument.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not at all...it is a serious question. Wouldn’t that be part of the full bounty you spoke of? Can you point out in the Koran where the seventy virgins is located so I can look it up in context?

You didn’t say it would be God’s decision...you said he would receive the full bounty. Does Islam believe in free will? Wouldn’t the suicide bomber also be acting in accord with God’s plan?

Fun fact.. no where in the Quran does it actually say a martyr will get 70 virgins, or even 1 virgin. It says he will receive HUR which was originally an Aramaic word meaning white, and referring to white grapes (very prized at the time yes) , but not as motivating as 70 (and actually its 72) virgin holes... if that kinda thing motivates you that is.

And if one is a believer, everything is gods decision and a part of gods plan. Yes Muslims do believe in free will, which also plays into that whole practicing ones religion faithfully is the way to earn your way into paradise. BUt i can see how the idea that if you are an ok persons with occasional flair ups of asshole, but you repent sometime before you die... well all is forgiven.

Another fun fact.. Muslims believe that if you have done someone wrong, before you ask God to forgive you your faith requires you to at least ask for forgiveness from the person or persons you harmed.

 

[Stymietee]

Let’s take a look...

1- Christians believe the act of homosexuality is a sin. We do not believe they should be killed and they aren’t different than any other adulterer.

2- no Christian believes that women are second class. You are likely referring to women submitting to your husbands, which in no way means they are second class. 5his is a command to women to prevent irreconcilable differences. Men are also given a command on how they treat their wives. Men love your wives like Christ loved the church AND gave himself for it.

3- ?

4- ?

5- no Christian is supposed to hate.

Now, the biggest takeaway for any Christian should be this...we all fall short of the glory of God and it isn’t through our own actions that we are saved but through Grace.

WOW! I honestly didn't expect you to take the bait, but since you have...

1. Leviticus 20:13 13"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

2. Maybe the belief is there but I assure you that actions speak louder than mere beliefs!
a. women are still heavily oppressed by a sexist and patriarchal society that treats women as second-class citizens.

b. women receive a lower level of pay when compared to their male counterparts for doing the same work.

c. Women who are victims of r*pe or physical abuse often speak of the second trauma when reporting these crimes to the police, when they are asked “what did you do to make him angry?”

d. The "choice" issue

e. 80-20 sex-split for US senators and zero U.S. president...yet! and the list goes on.....

3. Call it whatever you want to and it still amounts to terrorism, Bomb a church, protect out of control police officers, attack a gay nightclub or attack the U.S. building in Oklahoma City are examples of this!

4. How to End Racial Segregation in the American Church
https://www.thoughtco.com/diversify-your-racially-segregated-church-2834542

5. My dear friends, Welcome to fantasy Island!

 

[Stymietee]

It depends. Do you believe Obama had knowledge of this? Isn’t he the head of the DNC as POTUS, realistically? He is most definitely the highest ranking member of the DNC. Do you think Obama authorized this? If Obama thought this was going on, why didn’t he stop it?

Now the real question...did Obama use the law enforcement agencies to spy on the opposition party during a presidential campaign without legitimate cause? The answer is yes. Whether he did this without knowledge of falsehoods involved in the intel is not relevant. If he believed the falsehoods, he is inept, if he knew about them, he is corrupt.

Nope! to your first question, the rest is inconsequential.

 

[gkekoa]

WOW! I honestly didn't expect you to take the bait, but since you have...

1. Leviticus 20:13 13"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

2. Maybe the belief is there but I assure you that actions speak louder than mere beliefs!
a. women are still heavily oppressed by a sexist and patriarchal society that treats women as second-class citizens.

b. women receive a lower level of pay when compared to their male counterparts for doing the same work.

c. Women who are victims of r*pe or physical abuse often speak of the second trauma when reporting these crimes to the police, when they are asked “what did you do to make him angry?”

d. The "choice" issue

e. 80-20 sex-split for US senators and zero U.S. president...yet! and the list goes on.....

3. Call it whatever you want to and it still amounts to terrorism, Bomb a church, protect out of control police officers, attack a gay nightclub or attack the U.S. building in Oklahoma City are examples of this!

4. How to End Racial Segregation in the American Church
https://www.thoughtco.com/diversify-your-racially-segregated-church-2834542

5. My dear friends, Welcome to fantasy Island!

1- Jewish law at the time given directly to the people. This command was given by God as the Jews were acting in defiance to God and setting up idols. Jesus clarifies this by protecting the adulterous woman and telling the people, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” He then tells the woman “go and sin no more.”

2a. How are women oppressed?
2b. Has nothing to do with Christianity and has been debunked.
2c. Has nothing to do with Christianity.
2d. Has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with life.
2e. Has nothing to do with Christianity.

3- The only thing you mentioned by a self-professed Christian, even though it goes directly against the teachings of Christianity, is OKC.

4- Have people of all races go wherever they please? It is easy. People self-segregate. I love going to “black churches.”

5- Some self-proclaimed Christians do hate, but can you be a Christian with a hateful heart? Oh the dilemma. We would also have to explore the word hate. From there, are we referring to the person or the sin? I hate sin because it makes us “unclean” when we do it and we are offending God.

So...what else you got?

 

[gkekoa]

Nope! to your first question, the rest is inconsequential.

So you believe Obama was ignorant? Hmmm...I guess the FBI had no respect for the man. No wonder Comey got fired.

 

[gkekoa]

Fun fact.. no where in the Quran does it actually say a martyr will get 70 virgins, or even 1 virgin. It says he will receive HUR which was originally an Aramaic word meaning white, and referring to white grapes (very prized at the time yes) , but not as motivating as 70 (and actually its 72) virgin holes... if that kinda thing motivates you that is.

And if one is a believer, everything is gods decision and a part of gods plan. Yes Muslims do believe in free will, which also plays into that whole practicing ones religion faithfully is the way to earn your way into paradise. BUt i can see how the idea that if you are an ok persons with occasional flair ups of asshole, but you repent sometime before you die... well all is forgiven.

Another fun fact.. Muslims believe that if you have done someone wrong, before you ask God to forgive you your faith requires you to at least ask for forgiveness from the person or persons you harmed.

Excellent. I did find that a growing number of intellectuals are trying to push the “white grape” statement. Now, these scholars say the word is HUR; but I also found the word Houri. Maybe in time, more non-American Muslims will start learning this. That being said, I also found articles stating there will be 72 wives and a sensual paradise with full grown breasts, hairless, and untouched.

It does seem like a lot of Islamic motivation is sex based with promises to men.

Earlier, you said mere belief gets you to Heaven. You also said Satan is just doing God’s will by tempting man, which would be the opposite of what God would want. So according to Islam, nobody goes to Heaven, because nobody is perfect in their practice?

Guess what...Christianity also wants you to ask for forgiveness from the person.

 

[Stymietee]

So you believe Obama was ignorant? Hmmm...I guess the FBI had no respect for the man. No wonder Comey got fired.

Nope, just the opposite, I don't buy your narrative!

 

[reptec101]

Since the FBI is good at spying, well... at least good at denying it, I asked them to spy on Sty. (hey, I made a rhyme)... so I ask them to spy on him to find out exactly how he knows so much... of everything. They actually did a very good job of it. Not only did they give me detailed information of his day to day activities (you don't wanna know) they provided me with a picture of the book he calls his gospel that he keeps on his nightstand. Id like to share the book with my fellow brethren now so you too can see where he gets all his information from

 

[gkekoa]

Nope, just the opposite, I don't buy your narrative!

There is no narrative. Either Obama knew, or he didn’t.

 

[skinsdad62]

Why are you pushing this narrative? Surely you MUST know that it isn't true!

it is true

 

[skinsdad62]

You do realize that no conspiracy that rises to the level of being chargeable and proven beyond a doubt

and

No collusion/conspiracy at all

Are two different things right??

And sorry, but one of his campaign staff bragging they got dirt on HIllary from the Russians was considered probable cause to investigate. And something tells me if the subject of said investigation wore a D instead of an R, you would be pushing for it as hard as the emails.

i wish you would keep up the fbi launched the investigation and spied with NO probable cause if the russian had "dirt " as you say what law was broken ? none and why wasnt the same standard applied to HRC and the Ukraine

 

[Skins2021]

So here is your curve ball.

You have stated leadership in Islam world wide is a bit on the deplorable side. And i totally agree. But here is the rub, they do the EXACT same thing our leadership here does. Paints all Americans as the devil intent on destroying not their country, but their way of life, that being Islam. You never hear about the Muslim guy who took a bullet to save an American. But let a Muslim fart on the L train and that shit becomes a suspected terror attack.

All this to say that the image you have of Islam is a carefully constructed otherism just as their opinion of America is a carefully constructed form of group hate.

I hate using the both sides reasoning, but in this case... it is exactly that.

Out-fu*&ing-standing

and I'm not being sarcastic.

I had to look up "otherism" and I dont really have an argument.

I do disagree about the part with Muslims getting killed in the media because I actually think there are a ton of apologist in the media... I dont think the media is harsh enough TBH.

Also yeah I check every otherism box, however I've felt this way pre 9-11
What gets me:

very conservative Jews will just look down on non Jews
very conservative Christians will just be like oh well non christians are going to hell
very conservative Muslims think its blasphemy to the point of offensive that anyone can believe in any ideal but theirs and that it must change

 

[Skins2021]

Totally respect you perspective, that said, I do no agree that "sometimes things just are." In fact, IMO the only way for that to happen is without improvisation by mankind. More often than not mankind creates its own heaven and hell. In that regard, knowing the difference proves more difficult than it might ordinarily be simply because it requires an admission to the role played in creating both.

Nature vs Nurture.... now for humans I believe its 100% nurture i.e. children growing up in Pakistan are bred to be radical from the start. Its all they know etc.

The wrench though and I am definitely not smart enough to understand this but with dogs some breeds are just downright no good (Chows for instance). Its literally ingrained in their DNA and yes of course there are Chows that are okay, but for the most part it is just a downright rotten breed. Humans are obviously very different from Dogs but if Dogs can pass on shitty aggressive genetics generation to generation why cant humans?

As far as I know Islam has never ever gone through a period of time since its creation when it WASNT militant. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Skins2021]

To your main point, it's advisable to take another look at Christians, and I'll bet that at least 90% of them check off at least one of the listed boxes!

1. ideology towards gays...check
2. women as second class citizens...check
3. sympathizing with terrorist...check
4. purposely segregating...check
5. hating Jews, Christians, or other Muslim sects...check

Now I'll grant that all of these things are done in a different manner, but in fact they are practiced by so-called Christians! Please do be careful to note the four fingers pointing back at you as you point the one finger towards others!

GK answered you but I'll keep it short... its very different extremes and you and I both know that. This was a contrarian response

 

[Skins2021]

I emoji "liked" your post because I have to respect your honestly!

Uh-oh, here it comes, so I'll attempt to be as careful in asking this question as possible.

Earlier you wrote: " Maybe the solution is to introduce every Muslim child to iPad's and western culture." and in this post wrote: "If my DAUGHTER came home and said she was marrying a Muslim guy, I would definitely have an issue with it." followed by; " I probably wouldn't be too thrilled if my son was marrying a Muslim girl, however I'd know that she most likely isn't radical for marrying a non Muslim I'd just be leery of her family."

I see the difference but isn't it possible that your daughter would be as successful in introducing then insisting upon living within the tenants of western democracy as your son, simply because you and their mother raised her that way?

I will admit I was 100% inconsistent in my response and understand why you are calling me out on it.

My best answer, and its not a good answer, but there is probably a little bit of chauvinism in my initial response. I feel like I'd need to protect my daughter more than my son. I get your point and will hope that if I ever have a daughter I will raise her to be a strong feminist (not the hollywood kind that is a demented version of feminism) however I just think at times women fall harder and can be more susceptible to compromising their values then guys.... I could tell you I feel this way from experience, i.e. dated a very very strong willed catholic girl who was caught up in her faith etc etc and was a virgin waiting until marriage etc until she met me.

I mean in short I would not be happy if my kid had an intimate relationship with a muslim and would raise hell, pun intended, if it was my daughter and just be very mad if it was my son.

 

[Skins2021]

So here is your curve ball.

You have stated leadership in Islam world wide is a bit on the deplorable side. And i totally agree. But here is the rub, they do the EXACT same thing our leadership here does. Paints all Americans as the devil intent on destroying not their country, but their way of life, that being Islam. You never hear about the Muslim guy who took a bullet to save an American. But let a Muslim fart on the L train and that shit becomes a suspected terror attack.

All this to say that the image you have of Islam is a carefully constructed otherism just as their opinion of America is a carefully constructed form of group hate.

I hate using the both sides reasoning, but in this case... it is exactly that.

Also Shark I've read the Koran. As mentioned I've had this opinion since I was first able to form any political or global opinions and pre 9-11 obviously only strengthened post 9-11.

I went to a Jesuit University and took a 3 credit course on Islam in attempt to have my mind changed and learn more about a religion I feel kinda strongly about. I left the class feeling almost the same exact way as I entered it.

Just wanted to provide a little bit more perspective

 

[Sharkinva]

Out-fu*&ing-standing

and I'm not being sarcastic.

I had to look up "otherism" and I dont really have an argument.

I do disagree about the part with Muslims getting killed in the media because I actually think there are a ton of apologist in the media... I dont think the media is harsh enough TBH.

Also yeah I check every otherism box, however I've felt this way pre 9-11
What gets me:

very conservative Jews will just look down on non Jews
very conservative Christians will just be like oh well non christians are going to hell
very conservative Muslims think its blasphemy to the point of offensive that anyone can believe in any ideal but theirs and that it must change

So I will simply comment this. It is pretentious as all fuckout of ALL religious groups to think that GOD is such a petty individual that the only way to be in Gods good graces is to practice their particular religion. I mean did everyone who was born, lived and died prior to the Abrahamic religions all go to hell?? We know there were people living in this country long before christianity was brought here. What happened to those millions of souls??

Also, we all suffer from shades of otherism to a degree. I prejudge people all the time. If I see someone roll up with a Trump sticker, a Cowboys sticker and a rebel flag... I think major asshole. Occasionally Im proven wrong though.