politics thread

[gkekoa]

Let’s play a game.

We will start off with US law. If a person is fleeing, after assaulting you, you no longer have a right to kill them. Why? Because you are no longer in danger.

So at what point do you stop being a refugee? We share a border with Mexico. It is logical that a person in Mexico can come to the US border and claim asylum IF Mexico is persecuting them. The problem is, Mexico isn’t persecuting them and we already know this.

So, let’s talk Guatemalan refugees. Is a person from Guatemala a refugee, if they flee Guatemala to Mexico? Do they stop being a refugee when they enter Mexico, if Mexico is not persecuting them? I would say yes...refer back to basic US law.

 

[gkekoa]

OK so let me rephrase that. The way the law is being applied is intentionally discriminatory. Like I said. look up the Johnson/Reed Act. The only difference is, we are targeting South/Central Americans and Africans/Hatians for exclusion this time.

I am not seeing the correlation. Where is the discrimination? We are allowing people from South America, Central America, Africa, and Haiti to migrate legally to the US. As a matter of fact, we have more immigrants from these places than everywhere else, if I am correct. We are applying law to the illegal entry of people over the southern border. We emphasize the southern border because that is where almost all crossings of people with no intention of leaving occurs.

Feel free to correct me.

 

[Sharkinva]

Let’s play a game.

We will start off with US law. If a person is fleeing, after assaulting you, you no longer have a right to kill them. Why? Because you are no longer in danger.

So at what point do you stop being a refugee? We share a border with Mexico. It is logical that a person in Mexico can come to the US border and claim asylum IF Mexico is persecuting them. The problem is, Mexico isn’t persecuting them and we already know this.

So, let’s talk Guatemalan refugees. Is a person from Guatemala a refugee, if they flee Guatemala to Mexico? Do they stop being a refugee when they enter Mexico, if Mexico is not persecuting them? I would say yes...refer back to basic US law.

INteresting game, with an obvious bias.

But if you are going to request asylum, why would you request asylum in Mexico?? While they are a step above Guatemala, If you are going to go, might as well go for the American Dream. You would in their shoes. OH wait, you could never imagine yourself in their shoes.

 

[Sharkinva]

I am not seeing the correlation. Where is the discrimination? We are allowing people from South America, Central America, Africa, and Haiti to migrate legally to the US. As a matter of fact, we have more immigrants from these places than everywhere else, if I am correct. We are applying law to the illegal entry of people over the southern border. We emphasize the southern border because that is where almost all crossings of people with no intention of leaving occurs.

Feel free to correct me.

And our President is doing every thing he can to limit or STOP completely legal immigration from these places. Illegal Immigration is just the beach head. Trump is targeting stopping or seriously limiting immigration from the as he calls them shithole nations. The fact that he singles out the shithole nations of darker complexion might be a coincidence, but I doubt it.

 

[gkekoa]

INteresting game, with an obvious bias.

But if you are going to request asylum, why would you request asylum in Mexico?? While they are a step above Guatemala, If you are going to go, might as well go for the American Dream. You would in their shoes. OH wait, you could never imagine yourself in their shoes.

What was their purpose for fleeing Guatemala? Persecution of the Guatemalan government. When you are outside of Guatemala, you are no longer in danger, correct? So, if you are no longer in danger, you really are not a refugee. If you try to abuse the system and pick the country you want to go to, is that the right thing to do?


One problem with your last statement. I have already admitted we would all likely do this if the country I was trying to get into wasn’t enforcing their laws.

 

[gkekoa]

The term "refugee" means:

(A) any person who is outside any country of such person's nationality or, in the case of a person having no nationality, is outside any country in which such person last habitually resided, and who is unable or unwilling to return to, and is unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, that country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, or

(B) in such circumstances as the President after appropriate consultation (as defined in section 207(e) of this Act) may specify, any person who is within the country of such person's nationality or, in the case of a person having no nationality, within the country in which such person is habitually residing, and who is persecuted or who has a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. The term "refugee" does not include any person who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. For purposes of determinations under this Act, a person who has been forced to abort a pregnancy or to undergo involuntary sterilization, or who has been persecuted for failure or refusal to undergo such a procedure or for other resistance to a coercive population control program, shall be deemed to have been persecuted on account of political opinion, and a person who has a well founded fear that he or she will be forced to undergo such a procedure or subject to persecution for such failure, refusal, or resistance shall be deemed to have a well founded fear of persecution on account of political opinion.


This is from section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA

I will say this...they don’t make law easy to understand or follow. I will post more as I find it.

 

[Sharkinva]

What was their purpose for fleeing Guatemala? Persecution of the Guatemalan government. When you are outside of Guatemala, you are no longer in danger, correct? So, if you are no longer in danger, you really are not a refugee. If you try to abuse the system and pick the country you want to go to, is that the right thing to do?


One problem with your last statement. I have already admitted we would all likely do this if the country I was trying to get into wasn’t enforcing their laws.

And this is where i call BUllshit. In the same situation, you would do what ever you thought you had to to both protect your family and better provide for them, laws be damned. To say you would just abide by the law shows that you have never really considered what really motivates these people.

 

[gkekoa]

And our President is doing every thing he can to limit or STOP completely legal immigration from these places. Illegal Immigration is just the beach head. Trump is targeting stopping or seriously limiting immigration from the as he calls them shithole nations. The fact that he singles out the shithole nations of darker complexion might be a coincidence, but I doubt it.

You keep saying these things with no actual evidence. You want to believe all of this.

Are the countries he listed, “shithole countries” compared to other nations? Forget about complexion and base it on facts about the counties as a whole. Are these the countries with people more likely to immigrate here instead of England let’s say?

 

[Sharkinva]

You keep saying these things with no actual evidence. You want to believe all of this.

Are the countries he listed, “shithole countries” compared to other nations? Forget about complexion and base it on facts about the counties as a whole. Are these the countries with people more likely to immigrate here instead of England let’s say?

Trump Unveils Legislation Limiting Legal Immigration

 

[gkekoa]

And this is where i call BUllshit. In the same situation, you would do what ever you thought you had to to both protect your family and better provide for them, laws be damned. To say you would just abide by the law shows that you have never really considered what really motivates these people.

Maybe you misunderstood. If the law states I will be fined 10k and get 6months in prison, I may try to do things the right way. If that law is not being enforced, I will most definitely break the law. Most people are not fleeing their home country for the following we’ll founded reasons...fear of persecution from

Religion
Race
Nationality
Social Group
Political opinion


You cannot seek asylum simply because of the conditions of your country.

 

[gkekoa]

Trump Unveils Legislation Limiting Legal Immigration

And? Where is the racism? What is wrong with this?

 

[skinsdad62]

Countries with visa overstay rates above 10 percent in 2017, according to DHS:

-Afghanistan

-Bhutan

-Burkina Faso

-Burundi

-Cape Verde

-Cameroon

-Central African Republic

-Chad

-Djibouti

-Eritrea

-The Gambia

-Georgia

-Guinea-Bissau

-Iraq

-Laos

-Liberia

-Marshall Islands

 

[skinsdad62]

CBS Poll: Most Americans Want Illegal Alien Families Either Deported or Detained

 

[gkekoa]

Shark and Dad...

Technically, Shark is correct about asylum. You can only apply for asylum in the US. You can apply for refugee status outside the US. However, to qualify for asylum, you must meet the status of refugee.

Now back to asylum. Yes, people are gaming the system by claiming asylum. They claim asylum once they have already crossed the border and they have up to a year to do so. So, if you wanted asylum, why did you wait a year to do it?


To be eligible for asylum in the United States, you must

• must ask for asylum at a port-of-entry (airport, seaport or border crossing), or
• file an application within one year of your arrival in the United States.
• You may ask later than one year if conditions in your country have changed or if your personal circumstances have changed within the past year prior to your asking for asylum, and those changes of circumstances affected your eligibility for asylum.
• You may also be excused from the one-year deadline if extraordinary circumstance prevented you from filing within the one-year period after your arrival, so long as you apply within a reasonable time given those circumstances.

Seriously...WTF

The Refugee Act. Refugee Act of 1980

Pub. L. 101-649 Immigration Act of 1990 | USCIS Immigration At of 1990

I do hate law in this country. Why not make it easier to understand? No matter what we believe regarding these laws, I am sure we all agree the way it is written is so convoluted that nobody understand whatit says...even legal scholars.


This one is better...
8 U.S. Code § 1158 - Asylum

 

[Sharkinva]

I do hate law in this country. Why not make it easier to understand?

Because a straight forward legal system would be

1. Harder to game or abuse
2. Not require nearly as many lawyers
3. Be easier to challenge

None of these works in any political system ever.

I mean for fuck sake Melania was given citizenship under the Einstein clause which is supposed to be fast track citizenship for people who add distinctive cultural or educational benefit. (Im paraphrasing its intent)

 

[skinsdad62]

Forgive me, I was just paraphrasing the line that fearless leader has been pimping the last two years. And did it ever occur to you that the reason some one wouldnt show up is because of an already predetermined edict to deport them in most cases??

i dont think it has been predetermined since clinton passed it in the 90's . in fact we have looked the other way for decades

 

[skinsdad62]

and if we limit legal immigration so what ? its our country and its a privilege to come here not a right

now if we were smart we wouldnt limit it because right now we have more jobs then can be filled

 

[Sharkinva]

i dont think it has been predetermined since clinton passed it in the 90's . in fact we have looked the other way for decades

and if we limit legal immigration so what ? its our country and its a privilege to come here not a right

now if we were smart we wouldnt limit it because right now we have more jobs then can be filled

Come one man... The President just today said.. w should simply deport with no due process.

Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or...

And I agree we need to fix LEGAL immigration. The problem is, the people he wants to immigrate here dont want and have no reason to come here. And the people that do have valid reasons for wanting to come here, some folks apparently dont want here. Are you seeing the disconnect??

 

[skinsdad62]

Come one man... The President just today said.. w should simply deport with no due process.

Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or...

And I agree we need to fix LEGAL immigration. The problem is, the people he wants to immigrate here dont want and have no reason to come here. And the people that do have valid reasons for wanting to come here, some folks apparently dont want here. Are you seeing the disconnect??

and i would agree , they are not citizens and hence not required due process under our constitution .

and i dont know where you get he wants people who dont want or need to come here . . he said he wants people with skills to come here . but people of color i guess arent smart enough to speak english and have a skill according to the left

and what valid reason does anyone else have to come here ? and why is an illegals more valid ? if people want to come to our country they ALL have valid reasons

and for god's sake mexico has a top economy in the world yet their elites make their own people suffer

i wonder what beloved canada would do if we simply escorted these illegals to their border and say " here you go " like mexico does to us ?

this rings of trump derangement syndrome because as i have mentioned clinton , bush , and obama all did this without a blip on the radar from the left

 

[gkekoa]

The Fourteenth Amendment is interesting.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

1- They start off defining citizen.
2- The RIGHTS of CITIZENS are all protected.
3- They shift to any person stating no person denied life, liberty, or property (inalienable rights) without due process. Those three things extend to non-citizens.
4- Nor deny any person equal protection under the law. That simply means we can’t steal from and kill non-citizens, among other wrongful acts.