Pitching: need to fix?

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. Unfortunately, just because a knowledgeable pitching analyst finally discussed the problems in terms we can understand does not mean Timmy hasn't been working on changing those things for the last 2+ years.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Houston Astros' Bud Norris a good bet to be on move by trade deadline - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

“It gives you goose bumps when you think about it,” Norris said when I mentioned that the Giants could be in the market for a starter. “Obviously growing up there, being a big Giants fan — and I rooted for the A’s, too, in the area, but I was more of a Giants fan. That’s a possibility. It’s all trade rumors, as they say.

“But if it were to happen, it would be a dream come true for me to play for my childhood team. I’ve (seen) some guys play here for their childhood teams: [former Astros catcher] Chris Snyder, a couple other guys. Whatever happens, I’ll be excited wherever I go to help that team or — if I stay here — to keep helping the Astros. But San Francisco is a lovely place, and I still call it home.”

 

[calsnowskier]

Houston Astros' Bud Norris a good bet to be on move by trade deadline - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

“It gives you goose bumps when you think about it,” Norris said when I mentioned that the Giants could be in the market for a starter. “Obviously growing up there, being a big Giants fan — and I rooted for the A’s, too, in the area, but I was more of a Giants fan. That’s a possibility. It’s all trade rumors, as they say.

“But if it were to happen, it would be a dream come true for me to play for my childhood team. I’ve (seen) some guys play here for their childhood teams: [former Astros catcher] Chris Snyder, a couple other guys. Whatever happens, I’ll be excited wherever I go to help that team or — if I stay here — to keep helping the Astros. But San Francisco is a lovely place, and I still call it home.”

If I were an Astros fan, I would be pissed by those comments.

If you are with team A, NEVER NEVER NEVER talk about wanting to play with a team B. Anyone remember Freddie Sanchez?

Edit:

We all accept that Timmeh is a Mariner at heart, but we have never seen him say that in any manner since joining this org. That is because Timmeh may be dumb, but he ain't stupid!

Brady has not (to my knowledge) professed a desire to play for the Niners since he was drafted. The closest I have seen is his desire to BEAT the Niners since they passed on him.

 

[Heathbar012]

Norris and Fister, come on home, fellas! Timmy, you can go home, too.

 

[calsnowskier]

Norris and Fister, come on home, fellas! Timmy, you can go home, too.

CC just had bad timing. No room for him when the opportunity was there.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I'd love to have Norris (depending on price) if we can keep Crick/Agosta I am happy

 

[calsnowskier]

I'd love to have Norris (depending on price) if we can keep Crick/Agosta I am happy

I figure Crick is gone if we get Norris. And I may be OK with that.

 

[calsnowskier]

Maybe Crick and Heston gets it done?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Maybe Crick and Heston gets it done?

you don't think they may consider Hembree or Blackburn and a B spec

 

[calsnowskier]

you don't think they may consider Hembree or Blackburn and a B spec

Norris is a stud-lite right now with one additional year of team control. They aren't going to take our cast-offs.

Blackburn is a stud, but I wonder what kind of serious trade value he has. He is not a fire-baller, and was a late-round gem. Two strikes against a prospect (for trade-purposes).

Hembree is JUST a reliever. And his numbers are NOT good this year. While we are all some-what excited about him, he has lost some luster this year.

Even Crick is young and never pitched above A+. It may take more than Heston as a sweetener to make that deal happen.

 

[tzill]

I'd love to have Norris (depending on price) if we can keep Crick/Agosta I am happy

Interesting. What would your top 10 minor league prospects be (excluding any 2013 draftees). Mine:

1. Crick
2. Agosta
3. Blach
4. Panik
5. Kieshnick
6. Brown
7. Peguero
8. Hembree
9. Escobar
10. Osich

Honorable mention to Bandilla, Flores, Mizenko, Hall, Blackburn, Villalona, Minicozzi, Heston, Kickham, Monell.

Of course, Susac is untouchable.

 

[Heathbar012]

I figure Crick is gone if we get Norris. And I may be OK with that.

I think it's a wise investment. It would make your prediction about draft strategy for this year much more true for next year, too.

 

[Heathbar012]

Interesting. What would your top 10 minor league prospects be (excluding any 2013 draftees). Mine:

1. Crick
2. Agosta
3. Blach
4. Panik
5. Kieshnick
6. Brown
7. Peguero
8. Hembree
9. Escobar
10. Osich

Honorable mention to Bandilla, Flores, Mizenko, Hall, Blackburn, Villalona, Minicozzi, Heston, Kickham, Monell.

Of course, Susac is untouchable.

Nice save. Stokesy's got you covered if you ever forget that fact. Looks like a good list to me. Losing two from that Top 10 is definitely worth it because the money that was earmarked for Timmy could be used to lock up Norris. Seems like smart business to me. Not a "Panik move" on Sabes part, if he does it. Don't worry. I'll kick my own ass later.

 

[calsnowskier]

Interesting. What would your top 10 minor league prospects be (excluding any 2013 draftees). Mine:

1. Crick
2. Agosta
3. Blach
4. Panik
5. Kieshnick
6. Brown
7. Peguero
8. Hembree
9. Escobar
10. Osich

Honorable mention to Bandilla, Flores, Mizenko, Hall, Blackburn, Villalona, Minicozzi, Heston, Kickham, Monell.

Of course, Susac is untouchable.

Minicozzi is putting up MONSTER numbers, but have you seen his age? Dude is org depth. No more, no less.

Where is Mejia? Duvall? Cabrera? Javier? Arroyo?

Coming into this season, Mejia and Blackburn were generally considered in our top 4 and I do not think they have done anything to drop those expectations.

 

[tzill]

Nice save. Stokesy's got you covered if you ever forget that fact. Looks like a good list to me. Losing two from that Top 10 is definitely worth it because the money that was earmarked for Timmy could be used to lock up Norris. Seems like smart business to me. Not a "Panik move" on Sabes part, if he does it. Don't worry. I'll kick my own ass later.

Depends on the two. Crick/Blach? Crick/Panik? Assuming Crick is gone and they have to give up another top 10 dude, who do you pick?

I'd be unwilling to part with Panik or Blach or Agosta.

 

[tzill]

Minicozzi is putting up MONSTER numbers, but have you seen his age? Dude is org depth. No more, no less.

Where is Mejia? Duvall? Cabrera? Javier? Arroyo?

Coming into this season, Mejia and Blackburn were generally considered in our top 4 and I do not think they have done anything to drop those expectations.

I kind of overlooked Mejia because he's only been ok this year and he's on the DL, but good point. Blackburn I have as HM, but he should probably be ranked higher. Again, good point. What's your ten?

 

[calsnowskier]

I kind of overlooked Mejia because he's only been ok this year and he's on the DL, but good point. Blackburn I have as HM, but he should probably be ranked higher. Again, good point. What's your ten?

I will keep Arroyo and Jones off for now. I just don't know enough about them to intelligently place. I also will keep Cabrera and Javier off because I just don't trust Latin Players until they have done SOMETHING at A- or higher. I am excited about these 4, but it is just too early in the game to accurately judge them.

Off the top of my head...

Crick

Mejia
Escobar
Blackburn

Panik

Agosta
Hembree
Blach
Bandilla
Osich
Stratton

Brown
Payne
Duvall
Pags
Kiesch


Each of the groups are essentially interchangeable. I see Crick as the undisputed #1, but he is not a blue-chipper, so I am OK making him the centerpiece of a decent trade.

 

[calsnowskier]

Guys who are interesting, but I just don't enough yet to place...

Arroyo
R. Jones
Cabrera
Javier
Flores
Forjet
Williamson
Johnson
Villalona
McCall
C. Jones

These guys COULD all by top 10 guys as early as next year (or earlier for a few of them), but I just don't know enough about them yet.

 

[Heathbar012]

Depends on the two. Crick/Blach? Crick/Panik? Assuming Crick is gone and they have to give up another top 10 dude, who do you pick?

I'd be unwilling to part with Panik or Blach or Agosta.

It depends on the centerpiece. If it's Crick, Sabes might be able to get away with just Pegs and Villalona. If it's Agosta, he might have to offer Panik or Brown. Certainly, I would be bummed to lose any of those guys, but Norris has the potential to be the best #3 starter in baseball for many years, in orange and black. A young, cost-controlled proven starter takes precedent over any prospects. I agree that Crick/Blach or Crick/Panik would be a slight overpay, but even that won't become apparent for another two to three years. I hope to watch Norris throw in some World Series games with an "SF" cap on during that time to ease the pain of their debuts (I'm looking at you, Zach Wheeler).

All in all, to answer your question, I wouldn't want anyone else from the Top 6 (or Hembree) included with Crick, but I would understand the reasoning for doing so.

 

[SFGRTB]

So, read this about Nolasco; he's a California kid and the Giants would be his first choice if he were to be traded. He is very good friends with Sergio Romo, apparently. On his current contract, the Giants could absorb it and not have to give up a big prospect. He'd also be open to re-signing here, as he loves pitching at AT&T (career 0.87 ERA) and his agent has some familiarity with the Giants already. He serves as Freddy Sanchez' agent.

So, I think if we look to the trade market, it's going to be down to Nolasco and Norris. Already been established, obviously, but reading links/quotes that back up our thoughts.