Sgt Brutus
Goober
Look at their records before 2012. Now look at Michigans trend of losing more games each year.What bowl did Aurburn make in 2012? And which did they make in 2013?
Still failing to see what you're trying to argue?
Look at their records before 2012. Now look at Michigans trend of losing more games each year.What bowl did Aurburn make in 2012? And which did they make in 2013?
NFL =/= CFB success and vise versaWho said anything about "magic?" Harbaugh has a track record of turning around programs that had until that point underperformed (see his stint with the Niners). And it helps if the team has talent, which Michigan has.
So they will work for, Harbaugh will make damn sure, and at this point it is more likely than not there will be improvement. How much? We will have to wait and see.
What bowl did they make?
Look at their records before 2012. Now look at Michigans trend of losing more games each year.
Still failing to see what you're trying to argue?
Hypotheticals are pretty useless. Who knows? Urban is a betrer coach and recruiter then Hoke thats all I can sayNone, but (as I've said) that doesn't necessarily mean the roster is bad. Put it this way, If Hoke took over the same OSU team for the same duration as Urban with the same talent, do you think he'd be winning national titles?
Phil Steele
"For more than 8 years I have published an “Experience Chart” in my National College Football Preview. The old version of this chart just took into account the overall experience from the 2 deep for each squad. Several years ago I revised the Experience Chart and created a New and Improved version. The updated chart uses 20% of the experience grade from the old chart, 20% from the % of lettermen returning, 20% from the percent of tackles returning, 20% from the percent of yards returning and 20% from the career starts of the offensive line."
1 Michigan 91.0 14 9 4 9 4 3 0 1
2 Navy 89.0 14 6 5 11 3 5 0 0
3 Utah St 87.0 12 9 7 6 3 6 0 1
4 Air Force 85.0 9 5 13 11 0 6 0 0
5 S Alabama 83.0 13 5 6 11 3 3 0 3
6 West Virginia 82.0 9 8 10 7 3 5 0 2
7 Georgia Southern 81.0 12 7 8 7 1 5 1 3
8 Utah 80.0 11 5 6 12 4 4 1 1
8 Akron 80.0 13 7 5 8 4 1 0 6
10 Troy 79.0 11 5 9 8 2 6 0 3
11 Illinois 78.0 8 6 10 10 4 3 0 3
11 Cincinnati 78.0 10 6 8 9 3 5 1 2
11 Middle Tenn 78.0 11 6 10 8 0 3 1 5
11 Massachusetts 78.0 14 5 6 6 2 6 0 5
15 Colorado St 77.0 12 6 6 4 4 10 0 2
15 New Mexico 77.0 7 8 11 6 4 5 0 3
17 Hawaii 76.0 10 5 8 9 4 4 0 4
17 TCU 76.0 14 6 4 4 3 9 1 3
19 Southern Miss 76.0 7 6 8 11 7 3 0 2
19 Texas St 76.0 14 5 6 4 2 8 0 5
21 East Carolina 75.0 11 3 8 8 3 9 0 2
22 Iowa St 74.0 10 2 8 12 4 5 0 3
22 California 74.0 12 3 10 4 0 12 0 3
22 Georgia Tech 74.0 12 3 7 8 3 7 0 4
25 Memphis 74.0 9 4 8 9 5 7 0 2
26 Michigan St 73.0 12 3 6 9 3 7 1 3
26 Boise St 73.0 10 5 9 5 3 8 0 4
26 Idaho 73.0 9 3 9 10 4 6 0 3
29 BYU 72.0 9 5 7 8 6 5 0 4
29 Army 72.0 8 4 9 6 5 12 0 0
29 Ball St 72.0 10 6 9 5 1 8 2 3
29 WKU 72.0 12 4 7 7 2 6 1 5
33 Kansas 71.0 11 3 7 8 3 8 1 3
33 San Diego St 71.0 8 5 9 7 4 8 1 2
33 N Illinois 71.0 11 1 9 9 2 8 0 4
36 Minnesota 70.0 11 4 8 3 2 13 1 2
36 Northwestern 70.0 12 5 5 6 4 5 1 6
36 Mississippi 70.0 10 5 9 4 2 9 1 4
36 Mississippi St 70.0 6 5 15 7 1 3 0 7
36 San Jose St 70.0 9 5 7 9 5 3 1 5
36 Buffalo 70.0 11 5 5 8 5 3 1 6
36 Ohio 70.0 10 4 8 4 4 11 0 3
43 Arkansas St 70.0 7 5 10 8 4 6 1 3
44 Iowa 69.0 9 7 5 7 8 0 0 8
44 Baylor 69.0 10 2 9 7 3 9 0 4
44 Miami, Fl 69.0 6 6 9 5 7 9 0 2
44 Toledo 69.0 10 5 8 6 3 5 1 6
44 Bowling Green 69.0 10 3 6 8 6 7 0 4
44 New Mexico St 69.0 7 5 7 8 8 6 0 3
44 North Texas 69.0 10 4 7 9 4 3 1 6
44 Georgia St 69.0 10 3 9 7 2 8 1 4
44 Charlotte 69.0 5 4 13 9 4 5 0 4
53 Nebraska 68.0 8 6 11 4 2 6 1 6
53 UTEP 68.0 9 4 8 8 5 3 0 7
53 UNLV 68.0 7 7 8 7 6 2 1 6
56 Arizona 67.0 6 5 11 7 5 4 0 6
56 Houston 67.0 9 6 9 3 3 7 1 6
58 Louisiana Tech 67.0 13 3 6 4 2 9 1 6
59 Arizona St 66.0 11 4 6 4 4 9 1 5
60 Virginia 66.0 10 1 8 11 3 4 1 6
61 Marshall 66.0 10 3 7 5 5 9 0 5
62 Louisiana 66.0 8 4 10 5 4 7 0 6
63 Connecticut 66.0 7 2 7 10 8 8 0 2
64 UTSA 66.0 12 3 3 6 7 7 0 6
65 Missouri 65.0 9 4 7 4 6 9 0 5
65 Maryland 65.0 10 4 6 5 5 8 1 5
65 Duke 65.0 12 2 8 3 2 10 0 7
65 Cent Michigan 65.0 10 3 5 5 7 10 0 4
65 FIU 65.0 9 3 8 6 5 7 0 6
65 Appalachian St 65.0 7 6 7 6 8 3 0 7
71 Auburn 64.0 8 4 9 8 3 4 2 6
71 Georgia 64.0 9 4 6 6 6 7 1 5
71 Rice 64.0 10 2 6 7 6 7 0 6
71 USF 64.0 5 6 9 5 8 6 0 5
75 Colorado 63.0 5 3 12 7 5 7 0 5
75 Oklahoma St 63.0 6 3 10 6 6 9 0 4
75 Kansas St 63.0 11 2 5 7 5 7 1 6
75 Virginia Tech 63.0 8 2 6 9 8 6 0 5
75 Washington St 63.0 8 3 5 7 9 8 0 4
75 SMU 63.0 7 5 11 4 3 6 1 7
75 E Michigan 63.0 9 3 7 9 4 4 2 6
82 Notre Dame 62.0 7 4 11 2 3 12 1 4
82 Pittsburgh 62.0 6 1 12 8 4 8 0 5
82 Temple 62.0 10 3 7 9 2 3 3 7
82 Kentucky 62.0 10 3 6 5 5 8 1 6
82 ULM 62.0 12 2 7 4 3 6 0 10
87 USC 61.0 8 2 7 7 7 7 0 6
87 Alabama 61.0 9 3 7 7 5 4 1 8
87 Tennessee 61.0 7 4 7 5 7 9 1 4
87 Louisville 61.0 6 1 11 8 5 8 0 5
91 Purdue 60.0 7 2 8 8 5 9 2 3
91 Texas Tech 60.0 11 3 5 4 4 9 2 6
93 Syracuse 59.0 9 4 5 5 6 7 2 6
93 Oregon 59.0 10 2 5 4 6 11 1 5
93 LSU 59.0 5 2 9 8 7 9 1 3
93 Arkansas 59.0 6 2 10 7 6 6 0 7
93 Vanderbilt 59.0 6 3 7 5 9 10 0 4
93 Kent St 59.0 5 3 12 6 5 5 0 8
99 Ohio St 58.0 8 2 6 4 7 13 1 3
99 UCLA 58.0 5 1 11 11 4 5 2 5
99 Oregon St 58.0 8 3 9 5 4 5 1 9
99 Tulsa 58.0 9 1 8 6 4 8 1 7
103 Oklahoma 57.0 9 1 8 6 5 5 0 10
103 Rutgers 57.0 7 2 10 6 4 6 1 8
103 South Carolina 57.0 8 2 9 6 4 5 1 9
103 W Michigan 57.0 9 1 4 10 8 3 1 8
103 Nevada 57.0 8 3 5 9 5 6 4 4
108 Boston College 56.0 7 5 6 3 8 6 1 8
108 Washington 56.0 7 4 6 3 9 7 0 8
108 North Carolina 56.0 7 3 8 6 5 6 2 7
108 FAU 56.0 8 2 7 4 6 10 1 6
112 Texas A&M 55.0 5 4 7 5 9 7 1 6
112 Stanford 55.0 10 4 4 4 7 2 1 12
114 Wisconsin 54.0 9 4 7 2 4 6 2 10
115 Penn St 53.0 6 3 7 4 9 6 0 9
115 Texas 53.0 10 1 5 5 5 8 2 8
115 Wyoming 53.0 9 0 8 5 5 6 0 11
115 Old Dominion 53.0 6 3 8 6 5 7 3 6
119 Clemson 52.0 7 1 10 4 5 6 0 11
120 Indiana 51.0 6 2 6 5 8 10 2 5
120 Fresno St 51.0 11 1 4 5 4 7 3 9
122 NC State 49.0 8 1 6 3 7 9 1 9
123 Tulane 48.0 3 2 9 4 10 8 0 8
123 UCF 48.0 5 4 6 8 6 3 5 7
125 Miami, Oh 46.0 7 2 8 5 3 5 4 10
126 Florida St 44.0 4 3 7 6 6 7 5 6
127 Florida 41.0 6 0 8 4 3 12 5 6
128 Wake Forest 37.0 4 0 7 6 7 7 4 9
He also notes:
"Last season Michigan was near the bottom of this chart at #122. The young Wolverines saw their record drop for a 3rd straight year but now find themselves on top of this years article."
Until they play good, they are bad players. Its pretty simple.What if you have good players that played bad?
No, he never has won a national title. Urban did before tOSU. He is a proven coach that can win the big one.None, but (as I've said) that doesn't necessarily mean the roster is bad. Put it this way, If Hoke took over the same OSU team for the same duration as Urban with the same talent, do you think he'd be winning national titles?
A trend that you believe is due to coaching. It can't be proven otherwise until they actually show it on the field.A trend that was due to coaching, not talent. As already mentioned, Michigan landed two top 10 recruiting classes under Hoke, one top 5.
Yep, this is it@MAIZEandBLUE09 i am saying they are bad players. Your hypothesis needs testing and until proof is given otherwise, they are bad players regardless of the coaching.
I liked your post because you're right, I can't prove my opinion. But that's kind of the fun in posting on message boards like this. I think that we have good players that just need a coach to coach them and you don't. Ultimately, one or the other will be proven true because there's no possible way to truly prove your opinion of a future team. For all we know, Ohio State could suck this year. There just happens to be more evidence to suggest they won't.@MAIZEandBLUE09 i am saying they are bad players. Your hypothesis needs testing and until proof is given otherwise, they are bad players regardless of the coaching.
I just wanted to make sure that we understood what I wrote. There was some ambiguity in there and didn't want it misconstrued as me saying these are great players that fell under poor leadership. They may have potential, but nothing anyone here has seen, shows that they will reach it.I liked your post because you're right, I can't prove my opinion. But that's kind of the fun in posting on message boards like this. I think that we have good players that just need a coach to coach them and you don't. Ultimately, one or the other will be proven true because there's no possible way to truly prove your opinion of a future team. For all we know, Ohio State could suck this year. There just happens to be more evidence to suggest they won't.
I liked your post because you're right, I can't prove my opinion. But that's kind of the fun in posting on message boards like this. I think that we have good players that just need a coach to coach them and you don't. Ultimately, one or the other will be proven true because there's no possible way to truly prove your opinion of a future team. For all we know, Ohio State could suck this year. There just happens to be more evidence to suggest they won't.
And I can say the same of Michigan. I don't think Michigan will be great, but I don't think we'll see a team anything like what we saw last year.I know Ohio State will not suck this year. It is a fact. It will be shown in the regular season and I will come back in December and show that they did not suck.
And I can say the same of Michigan. I don't think Michigan will be great, but I don't think we'll see a team anything like what we saw last year.
Yes and I can hit the lottery. As I have said before: Some do some don't, odds are better if you are returning good players.
I guess it matters on what your definition of "suck" is. I think 6-6 or worse is suck. 7-9 wins is average and 10+ is good to great.Me saying I know Ohio State won't suck is far more based in fact than you saying michigan won't suck. Based on pretty much everything, there's a very good chance michigan will suck.
I guess it matters on what your definition of "suck" is. I think 6-6 or worse is suck. 7-9 wins is average and 10+ is good to great.
I think it's very unlikely that Michigan loses 6+ games.