P.J. Fleck >>> Jim Harbaugh

[fritowrdo]

Speaking of distraction/deflection from a coaches massive failures. How is Scott Frost working out?

10-3 ceiling.

0-5 against THE!

1-4 bowl games.

No B1G CG.

No CFP.

Harbaugh.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

10-3 ceiling.

0-5 against THE!

1-4 bowl games.

No B1G CG.

No CFP.

Harbaugh.

No argument. Harbaugh has failed miserably to find an elite QB — the ONE thing I thought we’d get with him as coach.

And UM isn’t near the talent level of OSU. The closest they came was when he had Hoke’s recruits.

You are talking to the wrong UM fan if you think I’m going to make excuse for UM’s failures. I’ve went as far as telling UM fans that it is an insult to OSU to even call OSU a rival, because we haven’t even been competitive over the last 15 years.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I gotta side with the Husker fans on this debate.

Coaching is the most important factor, bar none.

Great coaching CAN overcome recruiting.

Great recruiting can NOT overcome bad coaching.



On Michigan boys side, the lack of a quality QB can overcome both good recruiting and good coaching.



So? Why is Nebraska struggling right now?
Worst case scenario? Frost is not a great coach, and no one wants to move to Nebraska. As a Gopher fan, been there, done that. Might have to wait until you get lucky on the coaching side of things with some unknown surprising everyone as no decent coach will want to coach in such a horrible place.


Best case scenario? Frost got left an empty cupboard, and bad timing as Frost came in same time as Fleck, same time NW was peaking, and Wisconsin seems to continue to roll, same for Iowa. Frost might just need more time? Seems to me that they have lost a lot of close games, and they also seem to be inconsistent, some games they seem very good, other games they seem very beatable.


My opinion, can Nebraska EVER get back to winning Natl Titles? Yes, but I don't think it will happen under Frost. I could be wrong? But of course I am biased and believe Fleck and Minnesota will be reigning over the West for the next two decades, lol. But I'm sure Minny will have the occasional down season, so if Frost gets things going you all could slip one in here and there?


Unlike Michigan boy, I don't think recruiting is a important as coaching. A great coach can always win with less talent, but a sub-par coach can too easily lose even with great recruiting.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I agree — you have been recruiting the same over the past few decades and look where you are. A bottom feeder in one of the weakest conferences in P5.

Excuse me? Since when is the B1G West one of the "weakest conferences in P5"??? And I'll assume you mean one of the weakest DIVISIONS in P5?


But I'll say that is bullshit.

I'd bet the B1G West is better than at least one Division in the ACC and one in the SEC, and possibly both divisions in the Pac-12. I don't mention the Big 12 because there are no divisions in the Big 12, so of the 8 Divisions in the P5, I'd say the B1G West is 4th best, maybe 3rd best?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Excuse me? Since when is the B1G West one of the "weakest conferences in P5"??? And I'll assume you mean one of the weakest DIVISIONS in P5?


But I'll say that is bullshit.

I'd bet the B1G West is better than at least one Division in the ACC and one in the SEC, and possibly both divisions in the Pac-12. I don't mention the Big 12 because there are no divisions in the Big 12, so of the 8 Divisions in the P5, I'd say the B1G West is 4th best, maybe 3rd best?

This past year — I agree with the emergence of Minnesota.

Prior to that — the PAC South, ACC Coastal and B1G West were interchangeable in previous years at the bottom.

Here is the ESPN ratings from last year.

Ranking the Power 5 divisions strongest to weakest

If you’d like I can add a few others too. It isn’t like it is a big secret in CFB.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

This past year — I agree with the emergence of Minnesota.

Prior to that — the PAC South, ACC Coastal and B1G West were interchangeable in previous years at the bottom.

Here is the ESPN ratings from last year.

Ranking the Power 5 divisions strongest to weakest

If you’d like I can add a few others too. It isn’t like it is a big secret in CFB.

Ok, I can give you the past, it's been weak, but this whole thread we've been talking about what? The FUTURE. Whether or not Nebraska could rise up or not?


And the entire ACC outside of Clemson sucked THIS season. And the Pac was pretty weak, too. The Pac has been getting weaker and weaker as time has gone by. It might have a good year here and there, but the overall pattern has been downward for the Pac.


Looking FORWARD for the B1G West, I see nothing but better things to come. And that could bolster your argument, as it will be tougher for Nebraska to rise up with the likes of UW/UMn/Iowa all competing annually for the West title, with NW being a decent squad, too, this last year was probably just a hiccup. Illinois seems to be improving, and Purdue is spending a lot of money to keep their coach, and Frost has promise, many think he might just need more time. Probably won't catch up to the East as I see no sign of OSU slowing down, but you made a dig at the West because of Wisco not making a CFP yet, well, has Michigan or PSU gotten there? Iowa has. Yeah, MSU has gotten there, but look how they are doing now, is it just a hiccup like NW? And you guys have Rutgers who is the worst, and Maryland and Indiana are nothing special, hardly better than Illinois/Purdue over the long haul.


As for getting to the CFP, I think Minnesota and Fleck is moving in that direction, and if they get there, it will be with 20-30 like recruiting classes. And if Minnesota can do it, I think it's possible Nebraska could as well.



And btw, the difference between Minnesota and Wisconsin, imo, is that Wisconsin gets as high as they do from doing what they do better than anyone else, but the reason for that being their ceiling, is that seems to be all they can do. Their passing game has been decent at times, and those are the years they do best, but they have never had a good enough QB/RB group to get up to the CFP level. I know it's only year 3 under Fleck, but already he's got an almost equal running game as UW, but also has a great QB and a stellar receiving group and most of it could return for 2 more seasons. Defense might take a dip next year, but with Fleck's recruiting, he might already be to the point of reloading vs rebuilding, and if that is true, then the Gophers are only going to get better over the next 2 seasons.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Troll thread? Yeeeeah, I can agree with that... but that doesn't make it not true.

Again, you continue to bring up nonsense. How many times are you going to say...

Oops. Messed up the quote, this was supposed to be in there as well...



No one is talking about that and you never gave me an actual answer when I even pressed you on it.

How about this one... how would a team that routinely recruits in the 20-30 range begin recruiting at a top 10 level in say a ? Or is that not even possible to you?

 

[Kaplony]

This isn’t the 80’s and 90’s anymore. The overwhelming majority of prospects are on the football camp circuit attracting the attention of every major school. Having home grown talent is more important than ever, because it gives you a base to work with. Those kids can sell the school and area to other elite recruits.

Strange you say that because Clemson's recruiting success has been the exact opposite from what you are saying. In the past five recruiting classes combined (including this year) we have only signed eleven South Carolina players. Our core group that sells the school to other recruits has been the camp kids from out of state.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Strange you say that because Clemson's recruiting success has been the exact opposite from what you are saying. In the past five recruiting classes combined (including this year) we have only signed eleven South Carolina players. Our core group that sells the school to other recruits has been the camp kids from out of state.

And if Nebraksa were located in the South surrounded by other rich recruiting states — they could do the same.

Nebraska is surrounded by South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa. So they don’t have that luxury.

Clemson has about the best state possible to be bordering their state — Georgia. They have a massive amount of in state talent and only one big time program in the state. And that’s where Clemson got the two biggest recruits for the program. Watson and Lawrence.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Strange you say that because Clemson's recruiting success has been the exact opposite from what you are saying. In the past five recruiting classes combined (including this year) we have only signed eleven South Carolina players. Our core group that sells the school to other recruits has been the camp kids from out of state.

And Clemson's history prior to Dabo becoming coach was NOT glorious. From 1983 through to 2008, not once did Clemson finish ranked better than 9th. They finished out of the Top 25(14 ssns) more than they did(12 ssns) during that 26 year period.

Heck, if you compare Dabo's first 3 seasons to Fleck's, Fleck's 2nd and 3rd seasons at Minny were better than Dabo's 2nd and 3rd seasons at Clemson.



So how is it that Clemson can rise up and become a Natl Superpower, but a school like Minnesota or even a Nebraska, can't?

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Yeah, I don't give a fuck about what ESPN thinks. ESPN has done and said some ridiculous shit over the years. Both divisions in the PAC and the ACC are weaker. SEC East is debatable, but UGA makes a strong case. Same for the B12. They have OU... then there is a steep drop off... probably at least on par with the B12.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

And if Nebraksa were located in the South surrounded by other rich recruiting states — they could do the same.

Nebraska is surrounded by South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa. So they don’t have that luxury.

Clemson has about the best state possible to be bordering their state — Georgia. They have a massive amount of in state talent and only one big time program in the state. And that’s where Clemson got the two biggest recruits for the program. Watson and Lawrence.

I do agree with you that Nebraska's situation is more challenging, and as a Gopher fan I hope they never do become a Natl Title winning quality program, but I'm just arguing against the concept that you have to bring in Top 5 recruiting classes almost every year in order to have a chance at the Natl Title.


How did Clemson's recruiting look like before Dabo got there?

 

[Kaplony]

And if Nebraksa were located in the South surrounded by other rich recruiting states — they could do the same.

Nebraska is surrounded by South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa. So they don’t have that luxury.

Clemson has about the best state possible to be bordering their state — Georgia. They have a massive amount of in state talent and only one big time program in the state. And that’s where Clemson got the two biggest recruits for the program. Watson and Lawrence.

You know what else Clemson is surrounded by? Big time football programs that also recruit the state of Georgia.

But nice of you to move your goal posts from your "home state is your base" stance to adjoining states.

 

[Kaplony]

And Clemson's history prior to Dabo becoming coach was NOT glorious. From 1983 through to 2008, not once did Clemson finish ranked better than 9th. They finished out of the Top 25(14 ssns) more than they did(12 ssns) during that 26 year period.

Heck, if you compare Dabo's first 3 seasons to Fleck's, Fleck's 2nd and 3rd seasons at Minny were better than Dabo's 2nd and 3rd seasons at Clemson.



So how is it that Clemson can rise up and become a Natl Superpower, but a school like Minnesota or even a Nebraska, can't?

What exactly does any of that have to do with my post?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I mean, I think an argument can be made for Clemson NOT being a blue blood. A New Blood sure. But before Dabo came along, they have ONE single solitary Natl Title, and before that season, which could be argued was a fluke more than anything, they had a Top Ten season once, 3 years prior, but otherwise no other Top Ten seasons really. In 1950 the AP ranked them #10, but the UPI only ranked them #12. HARDLY the results of a blue blood. And I already mentioned how little they did after that one fluke of a season.

Now I am not dissing Clemson's football program, compared to UMn's, since say 1970, they've been better than the Gophs, and that isn't even factoring in what Dabo has done.

But wouldn't New Blood describe Clemson better than Blue Blood? For now? I mean, Dabo is young, and could easily turn them into a Blue Blood, and maybe he already has, so maybe it's not a good way to describe them? But what would happen to Clemson if say, Dabo left for the NFL in the offseason, and Clemson's next coach was a fuck up? Then their next coach is another not as good as they hoped, etc.?

I mean, why do people go to Clemson? It's because of the coach. If it was for other reasons, then why so little success before Dabo came along?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You know what else Clemson is surrounded by? Big time football programs that also recruit the state of Georgia.

But nice of you to move your goal posts from your "home state is your base" stance to adjoining states.

Your home state is definitely your base, but those states surrounding your own are also big for recruiting. Why? States surrounding the school are easily accessible to the recruiters and makes the schools accessible to the recruits for visits.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

What exactly does any of that have to do with my post?

I'm making the point that it is more often than not, THE COACH that makes a football program successful these days.


If it was blue blood status, why does Notre Dame and Michigan and USC and Nebraska struggle so much? How did Minnesota fall so far off the charts? Minnesota was absolutely a blue blood for the first 100 years of cfb history, no question about it.


So congrats man on bringing in Dabo, you all should be right in there, in the hunt for the Natl Title for a very long time, which sucks for all the rest of us, lol.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You know what else Clemson is surrounded by? Big time football programs that also recruit the state of Georgia.

But nice of you to move your goal posts from your "home state is your base" stance to adjoining states.

And every school ‘attempts’ to recruit the state of Georgia. Just like Florida, California and Texas.

The advantage states in the same area have is — recruits can drive in on a weekend for a n unofficial visit. The climate will be close to the same they’ve had their entire life and growing up these kids are watching SEC football or ACC football, etc.

Im in B1G country — so kids are brought up on B1G football. You get games from the other conferences, but the big games are usually B1G games.

Nebraksa’s location is about as bad as you can get. They have next to no in state talent, the states surrounding them have next to no in state talent and they now play in a Midwest conference.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I mean, being a blue blood program helps when it comes to consistently getting to bowl games or getting into the Top 25, but without a great coach, almost no way in hell your school will have a chance to win a Natl Title. I mean, it happens, all the pieces just happen to fall together for one season maybe, probably having to do with some luck, getting the right QB for example can go along ways. Remember Virginia Tech? How did they get into the conversation? One guy, a superstar QB led them to a nice little period of kick ass football, but outside of that short time period, how much has Virginia Tech really done?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

And every school ‘attempts’ to recruit the state of Georgia.

"attempts"??? Lol.


Gopher's have a dozen Georgians on their roster, or did. Both of their graduating RBs are from Georgia. The one was our starting RB, and a very good one, ran for a lot of yards in his time here.

Or All-Conf Soph WR Rashod Bateman, is from Georgia, too.


In fact, 9 of our incoming recruiting class are from SEC country, including 2 from Georgia and 3 from Florida, 1 from Texas.