Ozzie Newsome

[erckm510]

Granted I don't follow the draft or prospects very closely except for the last couple of years but every time the Ravens pick Ozzie gets so much dap and I wanna know why.

Looking at his draft history since 2008 he's only drafted 1 pro bowler(Rice). I'm not auguring the results because obviously they won a SB. But with so much talk about how the Niners FO runs things isn't it clear that the Niners have a better draft record then the Ravens for the last 5-6 years? So why doesn't Baalke get the respect Newsome does?

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Granted I don't follow the draft or prospects very closely except for the last couple of years but every time the Ravens pick Ozzie gets so much dap and I wanna know why.

Looking at his draft history since 2008 he's only drafted 1 pro bowler(Rice). I'm not auguring the results because obviously they won a SB. But with so much talk about how the Niners FO runs things isn't it clear that the Niners have a better draft record then the Ravens for the last 5-6 years? So why doesn't Baalke get the respect Newsome does?

Maybe because he has won 2 Superbowls & drafted at worst 3 first ballet HOF guys?

 

[threelittleturds]

Why did you choose 2008 instead of at least 2002 when he became GM? Plus he was a part of building up the Browns in the early 90s and the 2000 Ravens SB.

 

[erckm510]

Why did you choose 2008 instead of at least 2002 when he became GM? Plus he was a part of building up the Browns in the early 90s and the 2000 Ravens SB.

Because I'm talking about recent history. People love Newsome picks and for the most part they haven't been very exciting for the last 5-6 years.

 

[erckm510]

Maybe because he has won 2 Superbowls & drafted at worst 3 first ballet HOF guys?

This can apply to Belichick and he's been getting lots of flak for his last few drafts. Why is Ozzie immune to this?

 

[NinerSickness]

You've gotta be kidding me. In 2009 he got Oher at 23, Paul Kruger at 57 and Lardarius Webb at 88 (one of the best players on the entire team).

In 2010 he didn't have any first round picks. Didn't have a great draft, but he got a couple of valuable players like Dennis Pitta & Arthur Jones.

In 2011 he got a good CB in Jimmy Smith at 27 and their best WR in Torrey Smith at 58. And that class has only played 2 seasons & is still developing.

You're citing a great run of drafts since 2008 as a reason he's getting undeserved hype (his legendary decade of draft picks before that notwithstanding). And they led to a Superbowl victory.

And what part of Belichick's drafts have been bad lately? There's a reason the Pats have been in at least the AFC Championship game the last 2 years.

 

[I_am_1z]

You've gotta be kidding me. In 2009 he got Oher at 23, Paul Kruger at 57 and Lardarius Webb at 88 (one of the best players on the entire team).

In 2010 he didn't have any first round picks. Didn't have a great draft, but he got a couple of valuable players like Dennis Pitta & Arthur Jones.

In 2011 he got a good CB in Jimmy Smith at 27 and their best WR in Torrey Smith at 58. And that class has only played 2 seasons & is still developing.

You're citing a great run of drafts since 2008 as a reason he's getting undeserved hype (his legendary decade of draft picks before that notwithstanding). And they led to a Superbowl victory.

And what part of Belichick's drafts have been bad lately? There's a reason the Pats have been in at least the AFC Championship game the last 2 years.

*Jimmy Smith is terrible* He's so bad Cary Williams started over him. Sure, he HELD onto the Ravens victory in the SB, but let's not pretend this guy his good or anything.

I think Hangman is trying to ask why Baalke isn't regarded as the top GM in the league. Just primarily gauging from the draft, Baalke has been more impressive than any other GM in the league since he took office.

 

[dredinis21]

Granted I don't follow the draft or prospects very closely except for the last couple of years but every time the Ravens pick Ozzie gets so much dap and I wanna know why.

Looking at his draft history since 2008 he's only drafted 1 pro bowler(Rice). I'm not auguring the results because obviously they won a SB. But with so much talk about how the Niners FO runs things isn't it clear that the Niners have a better draft record then the Ravens for the last 5-6 years? So why doesn't Baalke get the respect Newsome does?

The problem may be that you are judging him based on Pro Bowlers, not on where he is drafting and the players that have fit right into their system. Are you going to give him credit for Suggs, Ngata, Kruger, Webb, Oher, etc.? He consistently drafts in the bottom half of each round, yet consistently lands on his feet with smart, shrewd drafts coupled with strong, consistent improvements in FA. For example, he lets Ed Reed walk only to get Huff to sign at half the price with comparable numbers and the fact that Huff has shown to play faster and is less injury prone. That is just an example THIS YEAR where everyone was wondering how he was going to move on from Ed Reed only to watch him not only land on his feet but actually possibly IMPROVE the position at a fraction of the cost. I think that Ozzie is the best GM in the game consistently and I don't even think it's close.

 

[threelittleturds]

Yeah, please don't judge him by Pro-Bowlers.

The only thing that proves is that Baltimore Ravens fans have better things to do than spend 8 hrs a day repeatedly voting for every available Raven on the ballot for 3 weeks straight.

 

[mem49er]

I think Hangman is trying to ask why Baalke isn't regarded as the top GM in the league. Just primarily gauging from the draft, Baalke has been more impressive than any other GM in the league since he took office.

Wasn't Baalke GM of the year not so long ago?

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Wasn't Baalke GM of the year not so long ago?

Yea 2010-11 season his 1st year as full time GM

 

[deep9er]

yeah,. Ozzie has a longer track record and believe most of his draft spots were low rounders?

Baalke has started out well with drafting, but really a short track record? how much control did he really have in 2010? didn't he get control only about a month out?

 

[deep9er]

Wasn't Baalke GM of the year not so long ago?

he had a GOOD draft in 2011 but he also got solid value in free agency. so he won this award after combining these things.

 

[-AC-]

I wonder how Newsome rated Eric Reid?

It seems to be the only way to validate players these days (atleast on this board)...

 

[dredinis21]

I think Baalke is definitely considered as one of the best, but what Ozzie has been able to do in the draft while consistently drafting in the back end of each round is remarkable IMO. What he has been able to do in FA, making upgrades at need positions, as well as upgrades at key positions at a fraction of the price.

I am not saying that Baalke is not great, but Ozzie has a proven track record over a lot of years that hasn't dropped off at all which is why I have Ozzie higher. If Baalke continues doing what he is doing, to me it would be 1 and 1a.

 

[erckm510]

The problem may be that you are judging him based on Pro Bowlers, not on where he is drafting and the players that have fit right into their system. Are you going to give him credit for Suggs, Ngata, Kruger, Webb, Oher, etc.? He consistently drafts in the bottom half of each round, yet consistently lands on his feet with smart, shrewd drafts coupled with strong, consistent improvements in FA. For example, he lets Ed Reed walk only to get Huff to sign at half the price with comparable numbers and the fact that Huff has shown to play faster and is less injury prone. That is just an example THIS YEAR where everyone was wondering how he was going to move on from Ed Reed only to watch him not only land on his feet but actually possibly IMPROVE the position at a fraction of the cost. I think that Ozzie is the best GM in the game consistently and I don't even think it's close.

I'm not juding solely by Pro bowlers. But you say judge by scheme and by fit and that doesn't apply to the criticisms of what happens on this board for Baalke and the players he picks.

Of course I'm giving him credit for Suggs and Ngata but they were top 12 picks. But did you look at who else was picked in that draft the years those 2 were drafted?? The best players were Abrayo Franklin(who they cut and got good on the Niners) and Sam Koch(their punter. His 2004 and 2005 drafts were absolutely terrible. His 2010 draft netted him decent players but players that fit his system and would probably suck anywhere else. His 2011 draft only netted him Torey Smith who is a #2 receiver not a #1.

I think Ozzie Newsome is the best GM in the game too but it's much closer then it was say 8-9 years ago. His recent track record(draft and including paying a top 15 QB 100 million) has dropped him some. My point is that he gets so much draft love and he hasn't really deseved it recently.

 

[erckm510]

Yeah, please don't judge him by Pro-Bowlers.

The only thing that proves is that Baltimore Ravens fans have better things to do than spend 8 hrs a day repeatedly voting for every available Raven on the ballot for 3 weeks straight.

Except that would be only 1/3 of the vote. And with so many injuries none of the Ravens even go as replacement players which have no basis on fan voting at all.

 

[dredinis21]

I'm not juding solely by Pro bowlers. But you say judge by scheme and by fit and that doesn't apply to the criticisms of what happens on this board for Baalke and the players he picks.

Of course I'm giving him credit for Suggs and Ngata but they were top 12 picks. But did you look at who else was picked in that draft the years those 2 were drafted?? The best players were Abrayo Franklin(who they cut and got good on the Niners) and Sam Koch(their punter. His 2004 and 2005 drafts were absolutely terrible. His 2010 draft netted him decent players but players that fit his system and would probably suck anywhere else. His 2011 draft only netted him Torey Smith who is a #2 receiver not a #1.

I think Ozzie Newsome is the best GM in the game too but it's much closer then it was say 8-9 years ago. His recent track record(draft and including paying a top 15 QB 100 million) has dropped him some. My point is that he gets so much draft love and he hasn't really deseved it recently.

I think just this year alone is proof he still has it. Huff for half of what Reed wanted, Dumervil as a HUGE upgrade to their pass rush, solid draft with high value players at their draft positions, smart enough to let McKinnie test FA vs. overpaying, and signing your franchise QB to a long term deal (even if you think he's overpaid) are all pretty good moves IMO.

Baalke doesn't have a long enough track record to warrant him jumping to the 1 spot. So far, Baalke has had two drafts in the top of the 1st and two in the bottom of the 1st. He has proven, just like Ozzie has, that he does well when drafting up. Time will tell if his last two drafts are good or not. A couple more years of FA signings on par in terms of terms as well as performance like he's had over the last couple seasons and he very well could get there.

 

[erckm510]

You've gotta be kidding me. In 2009 he got Oher at 23, Paul Kruger at 57 and Lardarius Webb at 88 (one of the best players on the entire team).

In 2010 he didn't have any first round picks. Didn't have a great draft, but he got a couple of valuable players like Dennis Pitta & Arthur Jones.

In 2011 he got a good CB in Jimmy Smith at 27 and their best WR in Torrey Smith at 58. And that class has only played 2 seasons & is still developing.

You're citing a great run of drafts since 2008 as a reason he's getting undeserved hype (his legendary decade of draft picks before that notwithstanding). And they led to a Superbowl victory.

And what part of Belichick's drafts have been bad lately? There's a reason the Pats have been in at least the AFC Championship game the last 2 years.

Can't believe you think Jimmy Smith is good. He's their freaking 4th CB. Webb is a great pick but Kruger is a system guy. Torrey Smith is a #2 WR not a #1 WR. And I've already posted about his total whiffs from 2003-2006 which netted him Ngata, Suggs and Koch. Yes the first 2 are football studs but 3 starters in 4 years? Explain how that's good. Here's the Ravens draft picks for reference: Baltimore Ravens draft history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what part of Belichick's drafts have been bad??? Look at their picks for your answer: New England Patriots All-Time Draft History - Pro-Football-Reference.com. Much more misses then hits recently.

And I'm not discounting the success of the Ravens or the Pats. To me I'm just not impressed about what these 2 teams are doing in the draft lately but they seem to get all the draft love.

 

[erckm510]

I think just this year alone is proof he still has it. Huff for half of what Reed wanted, Dumervil as a HUGE upgrade to their pass rush, solid draft with high value players at their draft positions, smart enough to let McKinnie test FA vs. overpaying, and signing your franchise QB to a long term deal (even if you think he's overpaid) are all pretty good moves IMO.

Baalke doesn't have a long enough track record to warrant him jumping to the 1 spot. So far, Baalke has had two drafts in the top of the 1st and two in the bottom of the 1st. He has proven, just like Ozzie has, that he does well when drafting up. Time will tell if his last two drafts are good or not. A couple more years of FA signings on par in terms of terms as well as performance like he's had over the last couple seasons and he very well could get there.

That's why my point is strictly the draft. I think he's excellent at making FA moves/managing the salary cap/identifying what players fit the Ravens system.