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Caliskinsfan

Caliskinsfan

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Flambo Gus said:
Short answer: I don't know.

If you're looking for a long, complicated response, here it goes:

The etymology of the term is still debated. There are some that believe that Native Americans themselves were the first to use the term "Redskin" or "Red man". There are some that believe that the term "Redskin" was first used by whites as a derogatory term in reference to Native Americans. Even further, there are those who believe the term "Redskin" was used in reference to the scalps of Native Americans, which was turned into british agents for monetary rewards.

There's also an annoying sense of "we're the only ones that can use the term", prevalent in some Native Americans today, similar to Blacks and the "N-word".

That being the case, of the three Native American communities to use the nickname, here's an article that discusses the Wellpinit's decision:

Redskins controversy? High school with debated name just wants to be left alone | Local News | The Seattle Times

To use a few quotes from the article on the complexity of the situation:

“One thing that annoys me,” says John Teters, registrar for the school district, “is that we’re used as an excuse for this asinine process. You name it, Cleveland Indians, Washington Redskins, whenever those names come up, the school gets called. ‘If you guys can do it, why can’t we?’ We’re somehow used as a justification.”

...

“We don’t see it as a derogatory name. But if you ask a grandpa or grandma, they think of it differently,” says Brodie Ford, 17, who just graduated and is heading to nearby Whitworth University.
Ford says that in sports, when playing other schools, he didn’t hear “Redskins” used in a derogatory way.

...

“This country was founded on bounties. I grew up with my dad talking about the genocide of Indians,” says Chet Bluff, 53. “This should be in the history books.”
Bluff says she was taught that “Redskin” refers to the bloodied scalp that bounty hunters used to show proof of a kill.
She says she told a white co-worker who asked what the “Redskin” controversy was about:
“Imagine my husband, my dad, my brother and granddaughter being killed and skinned for $800. Her jaw dropped,” says Bluff.

...



Looking for consensus in the Native American community regarding the term "Redskins" is much like trying to find a consensus in the United States on any hot button topic. Some are pro, some are con, some don't care. That's hardly justification for not doing anything.

That there are 3 Native American communities proving to be the exception, doesn't mean the term is any less offensive.

Also, let's not talk about the entire movement across high school and college sports to remove Native American mascots, symbols, and nicknames. Let's just focus on those three Native American exceptions...
Click to expand...

Flambo Gus said:
That was really more in depth than I wanted to go, but somehow doesn't seem to go into enough detail.
Click to expand...

Flambo Gus said:
No I'm not upset, just responding to Cali's question. It's just frustrating discussing it, knowing that in most cases, I'm discussing it with a brick wall
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Flambo Gus said:
.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your well thought out response Gus. And I promise I'm no brick wall on the subject. I am absolutely interested in what the NA community feels about the subject. That's truly the only community that matters in my book. I have said often, that if the majority of NAs feel offended, the name should be changed.

And you're right the problem lies in no consensus. You have the absolute right to feel offended. And I respect that.

My take on this issue has been well established on multiple threads here at SportsHoopla, feel free to go to my profile and see my posts regarding it. In brief, my biggest problem with the debate is LOGICAL fallacy and government interference on civil liberties and business.

1) there is no universal consensus YET, on whether the word is offensive or a slur, just people who state that it has been so defined, and that is to date, false.

2) there has been no updated unbiased poll within the NA community to research majority feelings regarding this issue. Why not? My possibly inaccurate conclusion is that it just isn't that big of a concern compared to some of the real issues facing NA nation. Doesn't mean some don't feel it offensive and I respect that.

3). The credibility of Ray Halbritter and Ms Blackhorse as spokespeople for the NA community.

4) Racism DEFINED has to include context and intent to be be so. The Redskins franchise and fans have never to my knowledge used the name to ridicule, debase or be offensive toward the NAs. Now the idiots who wear headdresses and dress up, smh, long past time to depart from that behavior. Zee needs to retire.

5) Government has Absolutely NO business being the deciders of acceptable words and images.. This is something that should be decided amongst the NAs and The Redskins franchise.

This feels like a MANUFACTURED debate and those involved stink of an agenda of politics and money.

I have always felt the name Redskin was honorific. Never once have I said it with any thought of anything but pride, loyalty and love. Or as anything other than as reference to a football team and fandom.

TO YOU, I sincerely apologize if you feel that my use of being a 'Redskin', has offended your sense of culture, history and heritage. It was honestly never my intent, ever.

On an ending note, I'm beginning to feel that this is so decisive and distracting to my football club, that the name needs to change to SKINS, that's how I mostly refer to them anyhow and the spear logo adopted. End of story.

Can we please focus on playing football now, it's what I love.

Let the thought police go bother the Chiefs, US military, Braves, the 1000 trademarks that currently hold NA influence and whatever else they want to remove from the English language.

I want no part of that. I think it sheer idiocy.

Btw, I'm an Amerasian who personally has never been bothered by the word, Oriental, Gook or slantyeyed...so what the hell do I know anyway. I obviously have Teflon skin.
 
Caliskinsfan

Caliskinsfan

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Oh, um, er, lol...

Good morning and Happy 4th everyone!

Sorry for the essay, I just wanted to respond to Gus.
 
MISKO

MISKO

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Canuck eh? said:
Good morning Misko, WWJ, and Cal.

AND HAPPY 4TH OF JULY to all my American friends.

Be safe when you're blowing shit up tonight. :boom:
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sbr_078MoranisThomas.jpg


mornin
 
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