OT: Zimmerman Not Guilty

[RoboticDreams]

I'm sorry but YOU'RE wrong. If Zimmerman doesn't follow TM, ignoring the police orders then TM would still be living. If Zimmerman wasn't a dumb punk whose only means to protect himself (since he can't fight) is to shoot someone, didn't attempt to take the law into his own hands then Martin would be alive.

I don't see why YOU don't understand this.

As Americans we have the right to walk around a neighborhood without being stalked by a stranger. Zimmerman STARTED a sequence of events that led to the death of a young kid. It isn't that hard to understand, had Zimmerman not tried to be Batman and fight crime then TM would be alive.

Jesus Christ, can you at least get your facts straight? It's been clarified many times but you obviously don't pay attention. Police dispatch cannot order anyone to do anything. They can merely make suggestions. These same dispatchers who said "we don't need you to do that", also kept asking Zimmerman where Trayvon was. It doesn't take Nikola Tesla to figure out that if you're going to give TM's whereabouts, you might need to see him.

 

[imac_21]

Why is it "ill advised" to say a black politician is making things worse?

You should probably bring a degree of evidence whenever you're going to say a politician is making things worse.

Given the context, in a thread that has discussed, heatedly at times, race relations, to state that the first black president has made them worse, without presenting any qualitative, quantitative or anecdotal evidence is ill advised.

 

[Dodub]

Stalked? True. Stalking is a legal term. Zimmerman didn't even come close to "stalking" Martin.

On the flip side of the coin, Zimmerman, as an American, has the right to go up to someone and question him.

Here are some definitions of Stalking:

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

stalk2
vb
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Hunting) to follow or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack (a person with whom one is obsessed, often a celebrity)

He was stalked there isn't any denying it.

Zimmerman does have the right to talk to someone but, his rights end where anyone person's begins. Meaning that he can talk to someone as long as they want to be talked to, if they don't want to be talked to by that person than it becomes harassment.

 

[NinerSickness]

Why is it better to have the gun and not use it?

Because if the opportunity presents itself to get off an easy shot to the guy (like if he lowers his weapon & is facing away from you at relatively close range) a guy with a concealed gun can end the situation right then & there (an prevent any further crimes by the assailant). If he has the gun & doesn't have a clean shot, having the gun & not using it has no down side.

But, as you said, your preference is no shooting.

If it's a clean, easy shot then yes.

How does more guns=less shooting?

Fewer ATTEMPTS at robberies because of the potential of a robber being shot. He'll go somewhere he's confident there are no guns instead.

I'm sorry, is the goal to make gun crimes more risky, or less common.

More risky = less common in the long run IMO.

...I don't think it would. I am quite confident that robbers have been shot and left dead in liquor stores in the past. I believe liquor stores still get robbed with a remarkable regularity.

Fair enough. I strongly disagree with that, but fair enough. Have you seen the beginning of Pulp Fiction? Remember the part where he's talking about how you'll get your head blown off robbing a liquor store but coffee shops are much safer? You don't think that logic applies to real life at all?

 

[imac_21]

I don't think he thought Martin was a criminal. I think he was suspicious because he didn't recognize him and he was peering into other people's windows as he walked aimlessly around. That's what he believed at any rate. Martin may have been upset that he was being followed, and I can understand that. That doesn't make it okay to assault the would be follower, simply because you feel profiled.

So Martin felt profiled, but not threatened at any point? How do you know this?

If you were walking around by yourself and a car followed you for a bit, then someone got out and started following you at a distance, while on the phone, you would think "well, I'm probably being profiled as a potential criminal, but it's okay. I'll just ignore this stranger who is following me while talking on his phone."

And let's be clear, this man is clearly following you. He followed you in a vehicle, then got out and followed you on foot. There is no doubt that you are being followed.

I find it odd that in a question about how Martin felt throughout the events leading up to his death, particularly while he was being followed you chose to open with what you think Zimmerman thought, but I see why that's where you went.

I'll repost for you and try to correct the last sentence.

I wonder what Trayvon Martin was thinking leading up to the confrontation?

He's walking through a neighbourhood with, from we understand, no ill intent. A man follows him for awhile in a vehicle, then gets out and starts following while on the phone. At no point (as I understand it) does this man following him say anything or identify himself (why didn't he? If his goal was to prevent a burglary, wouldn't it have made sense to say "Hey, I'm from the neighbourhood watch. What are you doing here?" I'm coming back to this later).

From Martin's perspective, he's walking through a neighbourhood and and a stranger starts following him. That clearly scared him, that's why he confronted Zimmerman.

But he's dead, because Zimmerman killed him, so we will never get to hear Martin's side of the story.

And I want to address this communication issue more. Was Zimmerman's goal to catch the kid in the act of breaking into a house? Doesn't it make a lot more sense to announce yourself as outlined above? The whole "fear for your life" thing may play a role in not wanting to anger this potential criminal, but the question then is what Zimmerman intended if Martin broke into a house. Or was he hoping to simply dissuade any criminal thoughts through his presence? In which case, if he thought this kid was a potential criminal, why would he not expect confrontation?

 

[imac_21]

The evidence for it is that every time a black man talks about race he makes race relations worse. Every time someone like Reagan talks about "welfare queens", or makes his first speech after being nominated near Philadelphia Mississippi, where civil rights workers were murdered in 1964, and says "states rights", somehow that gets ignored.

Nevermind, didn't look at who posted that. It's clearly sarcasm.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Here are some definitions of Stalking:

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

stalk2
vb
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Hunting) to follow or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack (a person with whom one is obsessed, often a celebrity)

He was stalked there isn't any denying it.

Zimmerman does have the right to talk to someone but, his rights end where anyone person's begins. Meaning that he can talk to someone as long as they want to be talked to, if they don't want to be talked to by that person than it becomes harassment.

Stalking is what a lion does when it is preying on an animal. You're attempting to say that Zimmermans intent, all along, was to kill this kid. That's absurd and anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows it.

 

[Dodub]

Jesus Christ, can you at least get your facts straight? It's been clarified many times but you obviously don't pay attention. Police dispatch cannot order anyone to do anything. They can merely make suggestions. These same dispatchers who said "we don't need you to do that", also kept asking Zimmerman where Trayvon was. It doesn't take Nikola Tesla to figure out that if you're going to give TM's whereabouts, you might need to see him.

LOL which facts did I not have straight?

But back to the topic. They might not be able to "order" someone, but if they ask him to stand down and he doesn't do it then how is that not on Zimmerman? You are trying to deflect because your "Martin is to blame" argument was crap.

Do you need to follow someone to give the police a general description of the area and where a person is heading? Do people usually follow the person that they are calling the police on? You seriously believe that the dispatchers really wanted him to follow a potentially dangerous person? You have no proof of that so please don't attempt to make that claim.

 

[MHSL82]

And you know instead of being a fucking douche bag when someone makes a mistake with grammar or misuses a word you could politely point it out and not be a complete holier than thou dickhead. This is the 2nd time I have seen you IMPLY that you are a better person and more intelligent than someone else simply because you use words and proper grammar better than someone else. You may be smarter than most people in here when it comes to grammar and use of certain words but that doesn't make you better than anyone else in here as a person.

No, after reading your post, he inferred from your misuse that he was smarter and better than you.

Just a joke. If you read the long thread in which they argued about the definition of imply and infer, you'd get the joke.

 

[RoboticDreams]

So Martin felt profiled, but not threatened at any point? How do you know this?

If you were walking around by yourself and a car followed you for a bit, then someone got out and started following you at a distance, while on the phone, you would think "well, I'm probably being profiled as a potential criminal, but it's okay. I'll just ignore this stranger who is following me while talking on his phone."

And let's be clear, this man is clearly following you. He followed you in a vehicle, then got out and followed you on foot. There is no doubt that you are being followed.

I find it odd that in a question about how Martin felt throughout the events leading up to his death, particularly while he was being followed you chose to open with what you think Zimmerman thought, but I see why that's where you went.

I'll repost for you and try to correct the last sentence.

You make a fair point. So if Trayvon was so creeped out, why did he go back and confront Zimmerman? I wouldn't go and confront someone I feared had ill intent.

 

[Dodub]

Stalking is what a lion does when it is preying on an animal. You're attempting to say that Zimmermans intent, all along, was to kill this kid. That's absurd and anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows it.

Lol it is like I'm speaking to a kid. Do you believe that when someone has a "stalker" that the stalker means to kill them? Again I will give you the definitions of stalking since you failed to read them the first time.

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

stalk2
vb
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Hunting) to follow or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack (a person with whom one is obsessed, often a celebrity)


Clearly you don't have an ounce of intelligence since you failed to read the definition of stalking. There are several different ways to use the term, of course I didn't believe that GZ wanted to kill and eat TM as a lion would with his prey, but I honestly shouldn't have to explain that.

Also please show me where I state that GZ meant to kill Martin....Oh wait you can't......

 

[NinerSickness]

Here are some definitions of Stalking:

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

stalk2
vb
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Hunting) to follow or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack (a person with whom one is obsessed, often a celebrity)

He was stalked there isn't any denying it.

You've got to be kidding me. You pulled up a google definition and think that means going up to someone and questioning him is the LEGAL definition of stalking? Do you know how hard it is to get convicted of stalking? This is the reach of all reaches.

Zimmerman does have the right to talk to someone but, his rights end where anyone person's begins. Meaning that he can talk to someone as long as they want to be talked to, if they don't want to be talked to by that person than it becomes harassment.

Talking to someone when they don't want to be talked to isn't harassment. If that were true, then about 10,000 people could be arrested at every sports event in history. I can go up to you (a stranger) and ask you all kinds of questions. I can't threaten you, but I can question you all I want.

 

[imac_21]

And that's one of the most bullshit things I'VE ever read.

...Well, maybe not "ever read." That's hyperbole. We've had some doozies here on SportsHoopla.

Yeah, the assertion that either
a. The problem doesn't exist, or
b. The problem is irrelevant simply because [you] didn't cause it, or
c. [You] don't have to deal with it because [you] didn't cause it

is massive bullshit. Were talking r*pe of Europa size bull.

I assume if you're traveling on a Greyhound and it breaks down in the middle of nowhere, you won't simply dismiss the problem because you didn't cause the bus to break down.

It would be cool though. A lot less people would die if they could dismiss it simply by saying "I didn't cause the problem." Very few passengers are responsible for plane crashes. No one would die if they were hit by a drunk driver anymore either. Only the guy that got drunk and caused the problem.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Lol it is like I'm speaking to a kid. Do you believe that when someone has a "stalker" that the stalker means to kill them? Again I will give you the definitions of stalking since you failed to read them the first time.

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

stalk2
vb
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Hunting) to follow or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack (a person with whom one is obsessed, often a celebrity)


Clearly you don't have an ounce of intelligence since you failed to read the definition of stalking. There are several different ways to use the term, of course I didn't believe that GZ wanted to kill and eat TM as a lion would with his prey, but I honestly shouldn't have to explain that.

Also please show me where I state that GZ meant to kill Martin....Oh wait you can't......

Wow, I'm glad to see that Wikipedia has such a profound affect on the dimwitted.

 

[imac_21]

Stalked? True. Stalking is a legal term. Zimmerman didn't even come close to "stalking" Martin.

On the flip side of the coin, Zimmerman, as an American, has the right to go up to someone and question him.

I wonder how things would have turned out had he done that? What would Trayvon Martin's current life state be if Zimmerman had exercised his right to go up to him and question him, rather than to just follow him around?

If Zimmerman said something along the lines of

"Hey kid, I'm with the local neighbourhood watch. Can I help you find something?"

It would have saved us 600+ posts on this board. And maybe saved a few other things as well.

 

[imac_21]

Jesus Christ, can you at least get your facts straight? It's been clarified many times but you obviously don't pay attention. Police dispatch cannot order anyone to do anything. They can merely make suggestions. These same dispatchers who said "we don't need you to do that", also kept asking Zimmerman where Trayvon was. It doesn't take Nikola Tesla to figure out that if you're going to give TM's whereabouts, you might need to see him.

You're right. They made a suggestion. let's pretend that all of Dodub's post is the same, except he said "suggestion" instead of "order."

I'm sorry but YOU'RE wrong. If Zimmerman doesn't follow TM, ignoring the police suggestions then TM would still be living. If Zimmerman wasn't a dumb punk whose only means to protect himself (since he can't fight) is to shoot someone, didn't attempt to take the law into his own hands then Martin would be alive.

I don't see why YOU don't understand this.

As Americans we have the right to walk around a neighborhood without being stalked by a stranger. Zimmerman STARTED a sequence of events that led to the death of a young kid. It isn't that hard to understand, had Zimmerman not tried to be Batman and fight crime then TM would be alive.

 

[NinerSickness]

Yeah, the assertion that either
a. The problem doesn't exist, or
b. The problem is irrelevant simply because [you] didn't cause it, or
c. [You] don't have to deal with it because [you] didn't cause it

is massive bullshit. Were talking r*pe of Europa size bull.

I assume if you're traveling on a Greyhound and it breaks down in the middle of nowhere, you won't simply dismiss the problem because you didn't cause the bus to break down.

It would be cool though. A lot less people would die if they could dismiss it simply by saying "I didn't cause the problem." Very few passengers are responsible for plane crashes. No one would die if they were hit by a drunk driver anymore either. Only the guy that got drunk and caused the problem.

The issue isn't whether racism exists or not. The issue is calling something or someone racist when it or he / she is nothing of the sort. There are things that are truly racist like taking race into consideration when hiring someone or taking race into consideration when renting a home to someone or treating someone worse (or better) because of their race. Or how Hmong people have been treated in Southeast Asia, etc.

Then there are things that are not at all racist but are called racist for political reasons. This case is a perfect example. So is liberal commentators saying that it is racist to criticize with Barack Obama (by that token it's also racist to agree with Condoleezza Rice, Allen West, Tim Scott, etc). Or when they call the Tea Party racist because they disagree with a black president (even though they'd support Tim Scott over ANY Democrat on earth for President). It's a straw man.

 

[Dodub]

You've got to be kidding me. You pulled up a google definition and think that means going up to someone and questioning him is the LEGAL definition of stalking? Do you know how hard it is to get convicted of stalking? This is the reach of all reaches.



Talking to someone when they don't want to be talked to isn't harassment. If that were true, then about 10,000 people could be arrested at every sports event in history. I can go up to you (a stranger) and ask you all kinds of questions. I can't threaten you, but I can question you all I want.

You've got to be kidding ME. If you don't like the definition of stalking then speak to websters but it is what it is, he stalked him. No one is talking about him questioning TM, we are talking about him following him in his car and giving him the unwanted attention, then getting out of his car and following him on foot. According to the definition of stalking, what GZ did was stalking.

No one is trying to convict anyone of stalking, what are you even talking about? The reach of all reaches is you claiming that I want to convict GZ of stalking, when I stated that TM should have the right to walk down the street and not be stalked by a stranger.

So I can just follow someone down the street and talk to them when they don't want me there and don't want to talk to me? that is absolutely harassment. No one is saying that people are arrested for it, but we should have the right to walk down the street without being harassed.

Here is the Webster's definition of the Harass, I know you don't like definitions but they are absolutely relevant in this conversation.

b (1) : to annoy persistently (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct

 

[RoboticDreams]

You're right. They made a suggestion. let's pretend that all of Dodub's post is the same, except he said "suggestion" instead of "order."

As Americans we also have the right to assure our neighbors aren't being robbed. If you can prove that Zimmerman was doing anything else, please provide that evidence.

 

[Dodub]

Wow, I'm glad to see that Wikipedia has such a profound affect on the dimwitted.

Dimwitted says that guy who believes that STALKING, is only defined by a lion hunting prey.

Don't make me laugh.