OT: Zimmerman Not Guilty

[MHSL82]

The fact that he had a gun leads me to believe he would eventually use it.

Interesting, do you have any statistically information to back that up?

Well, if he didn't have a gun, he couldn't; so if he had a gun, he would. Just kidding, I know that's not what he was saying.

 

[MHSL82]

No, it would apply if the state can't prove the contrary. That's the fundamental problem with the law. In a case like this, there were only two witnesses to how this all went down. One is dead. Zimmerman thus benefits from removing the key witness for the prosecution.

I meant if the jury found made that conclusion and that could be by the state not meeting their burden. I was just saying that if Martin wasn't found to fear his life to the degree that the stand-your-ground law require (which apparently is that burdensome to find) then it wouldn't apply.

 

[MHSL82]

If he had been found guilty the majority of reports, tweets, and facebook post would be about how defending yourself is now a crime. This is just like the OJ and Anthony trial in that no matter the outcome no one wins.

If you mean no one wins because people died, sure. But if OJ and Anthony were found guilty, the victims win. But that's because I think those two are guilty. You're right that someone would defend them and say it was unfair, but that's just because there are so many people out there. If OJ and Anthony were given life or the death penalty, they'd be the losers in the case and situation and the victims would be the winners. But again, if you're talking about losing their life, yeah, the victims lost.

 

[Kinzu]

I love how being 17 now is considered a kid. Their a lot of 17 year old "kids" that are bigger than 35 year old men. It wasn't that long ago that 18 year old "kids" were making NBA rosters. The media keeps calling him a kid as if to suggest he was helpless at the hands of the big bad grown adult. At 17 years old he was more than capable of beating Zimmerman to death. He was not a kid or a child in the way the word is being applied to this situation.

 

[yossarian]

I meant if the jury found made that conclusion and that could be by the state not meeting their burden. I was just saying that if Martin wasn't found to fear his life to the degree that the stand-your-ground law require (which apparently is that burdensome to find) then it wouldn't apply.

Correct, burden of proof issues are really complicated, particularly in self defense cases where the State has to disprove the defense, beyond a reasonable doubt. Criminal defense attorneys often say that if the jurors come out after the verdict and say "We thought he was guilty but the evidence just wasn't there" you've really done your job explaining the burden of proof.

So it's not like this verdict is some whitewash of Zimmerman -- the jury didn't find beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman acted in self defense -- they just found the state didn't prove otherwise. Hardly a ringing endorsement of Zimmerman's actions, and people have every right to be angry about Zimmerman's conduct, but maybe not so much about the verdict itself.

 

[BINGO]

I love how being 17 now is considered a kid. Their a lot of 17 year old "kids" that are bigger than 35 year old men. It wasn't that long ago that 18 year old "kids" were making NBA rosters. The media keeps calling him a kid as if to suggest he was helpless at the hands of the big bad grown adult. At 17 years old he was more than capable of beating Zimmerman to death. He was not a kid or a child in the way the word is being applied to this situation.

Anybody in this day in age eating skittles and drinking Arizona ice tea is a freaking kid.

 

[Paul Fizzle]

Anybody in this day in age eating skittles and drinking Arizona ice tea is a freaking kid.

Your wife is a kid

 

[MHSL82]

I meant if the jury found made that conclusion and that could be by the state not meeting their burden. I was just saying that if Martin wasn't found to fear his life to the degree that the stand-your-ground law require (which apparently is that burdensome to find) then it wouldn't apply.

Too late to edit so I'm quoting myself. I also meant to add that it would only be applied in Martin had killed Zimmerman. Then if he had done that and the jury felt he feared for his life, then it would apply. I would have to read the law or cases to know whether stand your ground law applies for things lesser than killing someone. It doesn't sound like it does, but it might.

 

[huskers1217]

I love how being 17 now is considered a kid. Their a lot of 17 year old "kids" that are bigger than 35 year old men. It wasn't that long ago that 18 year old "kids" were making NBA rosters. The media keeps calling him a kid as if to suggest he was helpless at the hands of the big bad grown adult. At 17 years old he was more than capable of beating Zimmerman to death. He was not a kid or a child in the way the word is being applied to this situation.

He is a kid...He can not legally carried concealed like Z did. If he felt threatened by an old man following him..beating the shit out of Zimmerman was his last recourse.

Who gives a shit about the 4 minutes..Z should have been in his car anway.

 

[SomeGuy]

Your wife is a kid

....mine is a baby goat...

 

[TobyTyler]

That is bullshit. If I walk into the wrong neighborhood down here in LA I might just get shot. Does that make it right? What if I was just stopping for gas? This isn't Dirty Hairy. Martin might be in the wrong for starting a fight, but if someone was following me around I would question them too. And who knows what was said at that point, or if he was being harassed. You shouldn't lose your life because you get in a fist fight. This will never be justified to me. By him being not guilty they are basically saying (to me anyway) that Martin was trying to murder Zimmerman and that was the only thing he could do to save his own life.

Its pretty simple; you just walk away. But your last sentence that I highlighted is pure, un-adulterated bovine excrement. Zimmerman should not have the right to prevent himself from taking a beating by shooting his assailant? Don't ever attack me, because even if you just plan to punch me a few times, I'm using whatever means I have to prevent that from happening, including shooting you.

 

[Paul Fizzle]

....mine is a baby goat...

Damn ... she kinda fine too

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2QFw-oKjFE]goat making cute noises - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

actually I just saw the testimony from the CSI lady that said that tests proved that the gun was flush with the hoodie.

I witnessed the defenses "expert" admit to the prosecution that it could have been up to 18 inches away and he conceded that he could not rule out that Trayvon was pulling back...... Additionally Dr Bodden felt the trajectory of the shot was not consistent with 2 people struggling for the gun.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Its pretty simple; you just walk away. But your last sentence that I highlighted is pure, un-adulterated bovine excrement. Zimmerman should not have the right to prevent himself from taking a beating by shooting his assailant? Don't ever attack me, because even if you just plan to punch me a few times, I'm using whatever means I have to prevent that from happening, including shooting you.

Well unless you are in Florida be prepared to do some time

 

[BINGO]

Your wife is a kid

She is a kid at heart.

 

[TobyTyler]

Well unless you are in Florida be prepared to do some time

I'm in Arizona so I'm good to go. This thing wouldn't even warrant a stern talking to down here.

 

[jarrod49]

He is a kid...He can not legally carried concealed like Z did. If he felt threatened by an old man following him..beating the shit out of Zimmerman was his last recourse.

Who gives a shit about the 4 minutes..Z should have been in his car anway.

THE KID COULD HAVE GONE HOME AFTER HE DITCHED HIM AND NOT COME BACK AND STARTED BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM. BUT NO HE WAS A LITTLE PUNK AS THUG SO HE WANTED TO "KEEP IT REAL" AND SHOW THE "CRAZY ASS CRACKER" WHO WAS FOLLOWING HIM HOW TOUGH HE WAS.

 

[jarrod49]

Anybody in this day in age eating skittles and drinking Arizona ice tea is a freaking kid.

Marshawn lynch is a child????

 

[erckm510]

Its pretty simple; you just walk away. But your last sentence that I highlighted is pure, un-adulterated bovine excrement. Zimmerman should not have the right to prevent himself from taking a beating by shooting his assailant? Don't ever attack me, because even if you just plan to punch me a few times, I'm using whatever means I have to prevent that from happening, including shooting you.

Just adding to the wussification of America where men used to be handle shit with their fists and be done with it but now people are so weak, vindictive, can't fight worth a shit or feel the neeed to be powerful they need to use a gun. I can understand defending yourself if you're attacked out of nowhere. But if you confront someone and things get agitated and you're part of the reason it got to that point then fight like a man or tell that person you have a gun and back the fuck up.

Or just take a beating like a man. It's fucking hard to kill someone with their bare hands and most people who fight don't want to kill each other. Hell even if someone is on top of you wailing MMA style put your arms up to block blows that person will get tired fast and have to stop.

 

[TobyTyler]

Just adding to the wussification of America where men used to be handle shit with their fists and be done with it but now people are so weak, vindictive, can't fight worth a shit or feel the neeed to be powerful they need to use a gun. I can understand defending yourself if you're attacked out of nowhere. But if you confront someone and things get agitated and you're part of the reason it got to that point then fight like a man or tell that person you have a gun and back the fuck up.

Or just take a beating like a man. It's fucking hard to kill someone with their bare hands and most people who fight don't want to kill each other. Hell even if someone is on top of you wailing MMA style put your arms up to block blows that person will get tired fast and have to stop.

Only a fool would do that if he had the means to prevent it. I don't lay my hands on anyone else and I demand the same from them. If you keep your hands to yourself where me and mine are concerned you'll have no problem, if not, all bets are off.