OT: Ritari's 2nd Annual SportsHoopla Fantasy Hockey

[Maverick426h]

yup. it is a dick move to just chase starts. absolutely.

in the playoffs i can see more of a case for it, because lets face it, even though it's a free league, you do what you must to win. that's the nature of the beast.
I strongly considered dropping a bunch of players in my match with Loco as the match was so close going into the last day. I figured it wouldn't be fair to the integrity of the game to drop someone valuable for a warm body (even an injured person like Lecavalier, because he cold shake the balance as a waiver pick-up for someone later down the playoff road when he became healthy). Also, if I drop good players in the 1/4 finals, that makes my team that much weaker going forward. That's also not fair to the integrity of the season. If i win the 1/4s only to get slaughtered in the 1/2's with a weaker line-up isn't very sporting.

My philosophy is, i take pride and ownership in the team I picked and traded for. Those are the guys i want to see carry me through the playoffs. I do understand that others may not see it that way.
if you have a shit team because you missed the draft or whatever (DBNI last year), then yes, you need to scramble to assemble what you can from waivers. and there could be some churn there as the guys you are picking up aren't necessarily keepers. so you chase hot streaks, homestands, easy schedules, etc. it's a lot more work, but it is part of the competitive landscape.

however.... Loco admitted that he wasn't aware of the general courtesy of the game, and he did stop rolling players once the hub-bub around it died down. In his playoff match with me, it wasn't an issue. he had 6 more skater starts than me. no big deal
Honestly, I have a feeling he went back to it in your playoffs (if he did - I haven't looked at the reasoning behind the moves, or the volume for that matter) as it was something that you couldn't seem to let go, even after he had stopped. so yeah it was probably on purpose, but also rather provoked.
as an outsider, i have to admit, that complaining throughout the season got more annoying than the offense itself.

I think you'd have to put yourself in my shoes early in the season when Eloco was swapping regularly for starts in order to have a purely objective opinion.

Nobody likes to lose, obviously, but when you get beat 4-8-1 by your main rival due in large part (take my word for it, I checked thoroughly...) to player swapping and then that person rubs it in your face afterwards and all along, you can start to understand why I exploded on him...lol

I had no idea that he didn't know any better. If I had, I would have let up considerably.

That said, to me, what he was doing what an absolute no-no under any and all circumstances, whether he knew better or not. It's common sense to me that if you're using free agency as your bench, you're cheating the system.

He'll say "Ohh, but you can do it TOO!!..."

Bullshit. When you like the team you have, there is little or no benefit to player swapping, because odds are you'll end up losing some players you like...and to rivals...for good. But when you have a few players that you aren't attached to, which Eloco clearly does...lol...it's extremely beneficial.

 

[Maverick426h]

Everything I did was within the rules also, whether you like it or not, but it seems the rules are different depending on who is taking advantage of them. You can whine and defend your moves all you want. YOU were allowed to fuck with Mav, I wasn't. So much for fair treatment of all owners.

You and Eloco are making the same exact case though. You both claim what you are doing is completely legal. That, while technically true because there is nothing in writing that says otherwise, is false. You're hearing this from me. You're hearing this from Puck. You'd be hearing it from others too if they were paying attention to this argument and cared to speak up.

Manipulating the system to blow up a league is what both of you are doing or have already attempted/done. If you want to call that fair and within the rules, so be it...but I know better.

 

[Maverick426h]

The funny thing is I added up my extra starts, and I definitely would have lost shots without them, but still would have won goals by 2, PIMs easily, PPA by 3, still tied for PPG, and I win STP by 1. Without a big lead on the final day, I would have started Rinne and Theo and would have tied you in the wins category to win the match 6-5-2.

And that's not even included the additional 1 or 2 extra starts I would have had from my original players were they not swapped out. Ouch.

Umm...that's interesting, because I know for a fact that you would've lost PPG's and you agree that I would've taken the shots, which gives the edge for the round to me. If you're wrong on one critical category, God knows what else you're wrong on.

The fact of the matter is that you need to pick some players you like and stick with them or it completely fucks up everything that would've happened. If everyone was allowed to use the free agent pool as there bench, then what the fuck is the point of even having a limited bench? Really...just let everyone re-stock their team daily with whoever they think will do best on that particular day. The guy who is up at 4 am every single morning to scoop up the new free agents will win every single week...lol You personally could go undefeated head to head as you'd win every single cumulative skater category on a daily and weekly basis.

 

[Maverick426h]

Since I haven't exactly said my views on adding and dropping players and let you guys argue about it since basically day hoping it would go away, I'll say them now. Adding and dropping players in the regular season is a bit dickish to me. The playoffs, however, are a different animal and its more fair game. If you rely on soley "Pitch and Ditch" (Fantasy baseball term for dropping and adding spot start pitchers) it won't get you anywhere anyway.

Well, that makes sense...

Wait...how would something that is "a bit dickish" during the regular season be considered fair game during the playoffs?

It's one thing to do what Isles did and add a few players on the very last day (after I said I wouldn't) out of nowhere as a last ditch effort to get the win. While it's tempting if I'm in his shoes, I wouldn't have done it ultimately. It's completely different to make 20 moves throughout the round from the word go, 18 of them a direct swap of a player that was just used (and has the next day off) for a player that can be used immediately, then picking up that same player you just dropped two days later. That directly extends your bench and increases your starts. Adding Timonen was the only honest thing he did for two weeks and yet you're alright with it...without any bias whatsoever...100% objectively. Same as if he had done it to you...

 

[Maverick426h]

If you actually honestly believe that...I simply feel sorry for you. Its hard when you feel everyone is out to get you when they aren't.

I post with a lot of sarcasm at times and I think people don't always pick up on it, which is understandable...lol

It is intriguing however. I don't truly believe anything was intentionally rigged by you, but it could look that way to an educated outsider.

 

[beantownmaniac]

You still dont understand the difference between playing your matchip and skewing the results of another.

How did I "skew" the results of another match-up? Nobody claimed the players I dropped, and no one was going to. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it as I've been messaged saying so. I was going to put them back on the team as soon as they cleared waivers, but certain people had to freak out like a jilted schoolgirl on prom night. I'm allowed to drop players as I see fit. I'm allowed to trade players as I see fit, other owners can veto any trades, and not only were there were enough active owners to veto any trades, but you have the right to stop them. Setting line-ups are up to my discretion. Owners are allowed to contact other owners via PM to work trades. Also not against the rules. None of the moves I made were against any league rules, I looked them up. And not 1 single move I made affected the playoffs, FACT!! Every trade I made, before the trade with Jeff, were as fair as any yet I got crap from Mav at every turn and you just sat back and let him cause trouble for other owners making trades, and all the while he was trading also!! I got shit for trading an injured player because it benefited me, yet 3 months earlier I got shit for trading an imjured player because It would benefit puck. What I find suspicious is how 3 months ago it was considered "unfair" to add and drop players everyday to gain an advantage during the regular season, but it's ok during the playoffs? The "money rounds?" That not only sounds fucked up, it's outright bullshit. If anything the playoffs are when you SHOULDN'T pull such shit. You scolded me for trying to influence results, which has yet to be proven, because I don't like someone, yet Eloco came right out and said he didn't add/drop players daily against Puck and you, but DID against Mav because he doesn't like him. Again, biased ruling from the LM. What Eloco did during his recent match against Mav is bullshit and the other owners know it. And by ignoring "common courtesy", and adding and dropping players daily to gain a competitive advantage, Eloco did in fact affect the playoffs as Mav should be in the finals, not him. A simple pm saying enough as a warning was all you had to do, but instead, you decide my legal moves were somehow against the rules and threw out the ban hammer. No big deal. I see how ethical this league is now. You can try to spin what eloco did all you want. bullshit moves are bullshit moves no matter when it happens during the season, and you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Well, that makes sense...

Wait...how would something that is "a bit dickish" during the regular season be considered fair game during the playoffs?

It's one thing to do what Isles did and add a few players on the very last day (after I said I wouldn't) out of nowhere as a last ditch effort to get the win. While it's tempting if I'm in his shoes, I wouldn't have done it ultimately. It's completely different to make 20 moves throughout the round from the word go, 18 of them a direct swap of a player that was just used (and has the next day off) for a player that can be used immediately, then picking up that same player you just dropped two days later. That directly extends your bench and increases your starts. Adding Timonen was the only honest thing he did for two weeks and yet you're alright with it...without any bias whatsoever...100% objectively. Same as if he had done it to you...

Correctamundo. It just depends on which dick makes the moves it seems. On a side note, it's really cute how you are such a sweet guy when addressing the LM, yet have been the biggest dick all year to other owners. :bj:

 

[beantownmaniac]

You and Eloco are making the same exact case though. You both claim what you are doing is completely legal. That, while technically true because there is nothing in writing that says otherwise, is false. You're hearing this from me. You're hearing this from Puck. You'd be hearing it from others too if they were paying attention to this argument and cared to speak up.

Manipulating the system to blow up a league is what both of you are doing or have already attempted/done. If you want to call that fair and within the rules, so be it...but I know better.

Trading players: within the rules
Adding/dropping players: within the rules
Contacting other owners via PM: within the rules
Setting line-ups as you see fit: within the rules

Care to post what rules I broke, ie back up your claims with concrete facts? If not, STFU.

 

[ritari330]

How did I "skew" the results of another match-up? Nobody claimed the players I dropped, and no one was going to. You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it as I've been messaged saying so. I was going to put them back on the team as soon as they cleared waivers, but certain people had to freak out like a jilted schoolgirl on prom night. I'm allowed to drop players as I see fit. I'm allowed to trade players as I see fit, other owners can veto any trades, and not only were there were enough active owners to veto any trades, but you have the right to stop them. Setting line-ups are up to my discretion. Owners are allowed to contact other owners via PM to work trades. Also not against the rules. None of the moves I made were against any league rules, I looked them up. And not 1 single move I made affected the playoffs, FACT!! Every trade I made, before the trade with Jeff, were as fair as any yet I got crap from Mav at every turn and you just sat back and let him cause trouble for other owners making trades, and all the while he was trading also!! I got shit for trading an injured player because it benefited me, yet 3 months earlier I got shit for trading an imjured player because It would benefit puck. What I find suspicious is how 3 months ago it was considered "unfair" to add and drop players everyday to gain an advantage during the regular season, but it's ok during the playoffs? The "money rounds?" That not only sounds fucked up, it's outright bullshit. If anything the playoffs are when you SHOULDN'T pull such shit. You scolded me for trying to influence results, which has yet to be proven, because I don't like someone, yet Eloco came right out and said he didn't add/drop players daily against Puck and you, but DID against Mav because he doesn't like him. Again, biased ruling from the LM. What Eloco did during his recent match against Mav is bullshit and the other owners know it. And by ignoring "common courtesy", and adding and dropping players daily to gain a competitive advantage, Eloco did in fact affect the playoffs as Mav should be in the finals, not him. A simple pm saying enough as a warning was all you had to do, but instead, you decide my legal moves were somehow against the rules and threw out the ban hammer. No big deal. I see how ethical this league is now. You can try to spin what eloco did all you want. bullshit moves are bullshit moves no matter when it happens during the season, and you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

To be honest, it was a last straw spur of the moment situation. Not with you alone, but everything. There's been so much drama and bullshit this year that its tops all the other leages that I've LM'd combined. Did you deserve it for this one move? No, and I appologize for that.Did you deserve it for what's happend all year? maybe. But really, do you have to be this upset when you weren't setting lineups to "prove a point" while not in the playoffs anyway?

 

[beantownmaniac]

To be honest, it was a last straw spur of the moment situation. Not with you alone, but everything. There's been so much drama and bullshit this year that its tops all the other leages that I've LM'd combined. Did you deserve it for this one move? No, and I appologize for that.Did you deserve it for what's happend all year? maybe. But really, do you have to be this upset when you weren't setting lineups to "prove a point" while not in the playoffs anyway?

I was in 3rd place when I stopped setting my line-ups, lol. I was setting myself up for the match with Mav that he wanted so bad because all year he gave me shit for legitimate trades, any of which you're welcome to go back and look at. Everyone was having a good time except for him and his mouth. Then when he whined some more, I gave my playoff spot to Isles and hawaii. I was in the playoffs in league 1 anyway. after getting knocked out, it didn't matter to me where I finished. No hard feelings. Sorry for some shit that has been said and directed your way. It just sucks that 1 "expert" fantasy owner had to be such a dick to the other owners who were playing well within the rules. Maybe he should realize not every trade is going to be "equal" as most trades are a little lopsided, but as long as the owners involved are happy with it along with most others, it's a fair trade. I got shit for trading Crosby in the fact that puck was GETTING him. Who's laughing about that trade now? Owners trade for THEIR needs, not the wants of other owners, and 1 owner starting shit about them isn't good for a league. Especially when that owner makes trades right after giving the others shit about it.

 

[elocomotive]

Manipulating the system to blow up a league is what both of you are doing or have already attempted/done. If you want to call that fair and within the rules, so be it...but I know better.

I didn't "blow up a league," I beat your whiney ass in one matchup, something you simply can't fathom. STILL no admission of your questionable trade antics. SUCH A FUCKING HYPOCRITE!! I hadn't rolled lines since like December before that, not that you'd know from your posts and complaining. You lost and are taking your bitching and moaning to a whole new level. I love it.

It will be a joy not having you in the league next year.

 

[elocomotive]

You'd be hearing it from others too if they were paying attention to this argument and cared to speak up.

You keep saying that, but I have a rep right now that says "Thank you for beating that asshole"...and it's not from the LM.

Also, it's not that fucking important!!!

 

[Ho_Brah]

FUCK!

I forgot to set my lines for today.

FUCK!

 

[elocomotive]

FUCK!

I forgot to set my lines for today.

FUCK!

Me too. Busiest week at work for the year this week - bad timing for the finals.

 

[Maverick426h]

I didn't "blow up a league," I beat your whiney ass in one matchup, something you simply can't fathom. STILL no admission of your questionable trade antics. SUCH A FUCKING HYPOCRITE!! I hadn't rolled lines since like December before that, not that you'd know from your posts and complaining. You lost and are taking your bitching and moaning to a whole new level. I love it.

It will be a joy not having you in the league next year.

Your ignorance is endless. You put words in my mouth every single time you speak. I've always loved the saying "Don't argue with an idiot because they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." This applies here.

The game changes when you have one idiot who is doing something (that nobody else is doing) to rack up big weekly wins throughout the first two months of the season. Who knows if you'd have still been the fourth seed or even made the playoffs had you not done it frankly. It was disrespectful to every other team vying for a playoff spot and very likely changed either the teams that got in or the matchups. That and your continuation of it against me in the playoffs is called blowing up a league. It's no different than what BTM attempted to do when he tried to drop several of his better players. Those moves were reversed, so why weren't yours?

The League Manager (also a Caps fan) doesn't even approve of your tactics (during the regular season) and yet it was STILL allowed to go on. If the LM has any sense at all, he'll put his bias aside for once and not invite you back either for next season. Me, I'll be overjoyed to be in a league with a move limit, IR spots and other active/experienced players like myself that won't dare cheat the system.

Contrary to what you claim, I didn't have anything against you once you stopped swapping (for what I had figured was for good), yet you were still carrying a grudge. You'd make a snide remark every now and then, which would just start it back up. I was more than happy to never discuss it again. You would not let it go, which was further proven when you decided to suddenly pick it back up again in the playoffs against none other than me...lol

My questionable trade antics!? You want me to explain this again? Are you really that thick-skulled? The only proposal that I made all season long in two entire leagues involved me trading away Brian Elliott to upgrade on defense. If you look at that trade today, I may have made a mistake...lol Elliott has three straight shutouts and he's statistically been far and away the best goalie in the Nhl this season. Nabokov has meanwhile cooled off, gotten fewer starts and is now injured. The only other trade I made was Lucic for Sharp. I asked Isle what he wanted for Sharp and Lucic was the one player he wanted that I was willing to part with. I had zero other trade discussions, which is more than I can say for some others...

Based on the fact that I took the top seed in both leagues (one with two late trades and one with none), I'm clearly one of those guys that relies on lopsided trades to win.

That's sarcasm, folks. Enjoy.

 

[Maverick426h]

You keep saying that, but I have a rep right now that says "Thank you for beating that asshole"...and it's not from the LM.

Also, it's not that fucking important!!!

The first part of that is easy to understand. I'm an outsider. I don't hang around the main board. I generally don't post on a daily basis or live here like some others do. I've come out of nowhere to do nothing but "bitch at you all season long" while having the best team in both leagues. I may come off as an arrogant asshole (go figure). It's easy to hate me.

That's fine. I'll be alright.

Meanwhile, there are no less than three other managers that have at one time or another agreed with my stance against your "tactics." They'd just prefer not to ever be bunched in with me (again, go figure...).

The bold explains a lot.

So, if "it's not that fucking important," why make 110 moves this season including 20 in just one matchup with me all while you're supposedly working 80+ hour weeks? Why not brush off what I said, get in line, perhaps even get some sleep while "playing it straight" like the rest of us?

Did I really get to you THAT much? Was it an especially traumatic time for you?

 

[Maverick426h]

Owners trade for THEIR needs, not the wants of other owners, and 1 owner starting shit about them isn't good for a league.

Again, you think I'm oblivious to everything you tried to get away with in League 2 with Jeff directly and/or indirectly? How about we have a look at some of those private messages? You are such a phony. It's amazing.

I have no problem whatsoever with legitimate trade discussions or deals, but when you are trying to stack your team via a friend, I have issues with that and so should everyone else.

You absolutely deserved to be banned when you dropped several of your better players. I believe you even made the case that Eloco should be punished too. You're right. Oh well, I guess you should've been a Caps fan...rofl You'd of missed the playoffs in the real world, but made them here.

You and I know that you are the very last person between both leagues that should be concerned about what is or isn't good for a league.

 

[Maverick426h]

I'm out. I hope you all have a most enjoyable evening, especially you Ritari. :bj:



Let's see. Kings @ Flames. That could be a serious battle. I may have to watch.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Again, you think I'm oblivious to everything you tried to get away with in League 2 with Jeff directly and/or indirectly? How about we have a look at some of those private messages? You are such a phony. It's amazing.

I have no problem whatsoever with legitimate trade discussions or deals, but when you are trying to stack your team via a friend, I have issues with that and so should everyone else.

You absolutely deserved to be banned when you dropped several of your better players. I believe you even made the case that Eloco should be punished too. You're right. Oh well, I guess you should've been a Caps fan...rofl You'd of missed the playoffs in the real world, but made them here.

You and I know that you are the very last person between both leagues that should be concerned about what is or isn't good for a league.

You are one dumb MF. EVERY trade other than the trade with Jeff was legit and fair, regardless of what YOU think. The trade with Jeff was just to piss you off, and it worked wonderfully. Seeing how I gave up my playoff spot to Isles and Hawaii, I don't know what your problem is. As for dropping players, again for your thick skull, it's NOT against the rules, and I was messaged to let me know they wouldn't be claimed. I don't know what you think, but every other owner thinks you're an ass and won't be participating in any leagues that your in. BOTH my teams would have made the playoffs with the roster I had, so I don't know what you're talking about. I still am laughing my ass off about you wanting to see the "secret" PM's between me and other owners. I never thought exchanging player names in trade discussions would be such a controversy, but here you are, trying to start trouble again. Unlike internet sports hero's like yourself, I've participated in many different sports throughout my life, played in state and New England tournaments, various leagues and different competitions. Never has my integrity been questioned and as a matter of fact, I've been complimented on my fair play, and graciousness in victory as well as defeat. I've also been asked to compete on traveling teams in my younger days. What you think of me means nothing. You've proven yourself to be an asshole and ruined what was 2 great fantasy leagues until you opened your big mouth. Congrats on alienating yourself from the other owners here.

 

[elocomotive]

Did I really get to you THAT much?

I'd say not enough! Please... tell us more!

I'll be awake late to read because I can't even sleep at night knowing the atrocities I have committed.