OT: Racist Math questions for 3rd graders in Georgia

[sayheykid1]

I don't think that system I suggested would need a lot of administration at all. Not compared to the current system anyway. And I definitely want to go in to public school teaching. For the money. Easy.

By the way this isn't my ideal system. Ideally there would be no public school, and educations would acquired the same way people acquire food. They would go out and get them, and people would compete against each other to do it better. And if people were very poor I would support a voucher for them to get their kids an education the same way I support food stamps. But it would only be for poor people of course.

P.S. I don't know if the figures we've been using includes money given to retired people in the education system. Does anyone know if that is included? It should be. It's eventually could be the biggest chunk.

So you want to become a public school teacher for the money and because you think it is easy. If that is the case you are presenting yourself as an immoral, lazy hypocrite and I bet you wash out like you might in a lot of jobs. I am hoping that you are just saying it to make your point.
What do you do now?

You would have children go out and get educations for themselves in a competitive manner?

 

[NinerSickness]

So you want to become a public school teacher for the money and because you think it is easy.

I never said it was easy. I said teachers are disgustingly over paid if you break it down to how much they make per hour (and that's not including pensions). Teaching is not easy. Sitting at home 205 days a year is easy.

I'm back in school full time. I started a business and it never got off the ground, so I spent the last 6 years paying off the cost of that & saving up for college again. My job left California & laid everyone off (like 600 people) right when I was about to quit & just focus on school. Pretty good timing for me.

You would have children go out and get educations for themselves in a competitive manner?

Parents. I'd have parents do it of course. And if they couldn't afford the schools I'd be ok with a food-stamp style assistance at a minimal level.

Also if I had children they would be home schooled, and they would still be doing school work in the summer time. Summers off is archaic and stupid. Most people aren't harvesting crops in the summer. The first month of school ends up being all review.

 

[EKmane]

I never said it was easy. I said teachers are disgustingly over paid if you break it down to how much they make per hour (and that's not including pensions). Teaching is not easy. Sitting at home 205 days a year is easy.

I'm back in school full time. I started a business and it never got off the ground, so I spent the last 6 years paying off the cost of that & saving up for college again. My job left California & laid everyone off (like 600 people) right when I was about to quit & just focus on school. Pretty good timing for me.



Parents. I'd have parents do it of course. And if they couldn't afford the schools I'd be ok with a food-stamp style assistance at a minimal level.

Also if I had children they would be home schooled, and they would still be doing school work in the summer time. Summers off is archaic and stupid. Most people aren't harvesting crops in the summer. The first month of school ends up being all review.

Lucky for them you don't have any. My wife's sisters were homeschooled from 14, they are social misfits. They have no clue on how to interact with people. It's already bad enough with kids now days texting and facebooking. We I was growing up we talked on the phone, 3 way calls and went out. To me school was where everyone my age was. Hello? There has been a study about homeschool and the effects it has on kids social skills, I don't recommend it.
To your defense, there are some that say that homeschool kids have a higher self esteem, I haven't met any of them though.

 

[sayheykid1]

I never said it was easy. I said teachers are disgustingly over paid if you break it down to how much they make per hour (and that's not including pensions). Teaching is not easy. Sitting at home 205 days a year is easy.

I'm back in school full time. I started a business and it never got off the ground, so I spent the last 6 years paying off the cost of that & saving up for college again. My job left California & laid everyone off (like 600 people) right when I was about to quit & just focus on school. Pretty good timing for me.



Parents. I'd have parents do it of course. And if they couldn't afford the schools I'd be ok with a food-stamp style assistance at a minimal level.

Also if I had children they would be home schooled, and they would still be doing school work in the summer time. Summers off is archaic and stupid. Most people aren't harvesting crops in the summer. The first month of school ends up being all review.

What do you consider a disgustingly high hourly rate? Perhaps we have different standards. What were you doing for the past six years? Why do you want to teach?

I am not willing to leave children behind solely because they have lazy and irresponsible parents because the cost on society down the road will be much higher.

 

[NinerSickness]

Lucky for them you don't have any.

That's pretty mean & presumptuous.

My wife's sisters were homeschooled from 14, they are social misfits. They have no clue on how to interact with people. It's already bad enough with kids now days texting and facebooking. We I was growing up we talked on the phone, 3 way calls and went out. To me school was where everyone my age was. Hello? There has been a study about homeschool and the effects it has on kids social skills, I don't recommend it.

You're grouping an entire segment of the population based on your wife's sisters? I didn't have the advantage of home schooling, but I have many close friends who were home schooled and they're not only brilliant but they're very social. Your anecdote doens't begin to show cause & effect.[/QUOTE]

 

[sayheykid1]

Lucky for them you don't have any. My wife's sisters were homeschooled from 14, they are social misfits. They have no clue on how to interact with people. It's already bad enough with kids now days texting and facebooking. We I was growing up we talked on the phone, 3 way calls and went out. To me school was where everyone my age was. Hello? There has been a study about homeschool and the effects it has on kids social skills, I don't recommend it.
To your defense, there are some that say that homeschool kids have a higher self esteem, I haven't met any of them though.

This is a very good point. Socialization is a very important skill. I have gotten by with my social skills more than my knowledge for most of my working life.

 

[NinerSickness]

What do you consider a disgustingly high hourly rate?

I'll take California: On the average lifespan a pension adds about $40K per year in pension costs alone. The average teacher salary in 2010 was $67,871 (Sacramento Bee). I found another sourse that said $59,825, but the former may include benefits like medical, etc. Retired Teachers in California Earn More Than Working Teachers in 28 States.

Perhaps we have different standards. What were you doing for the past six years? Why do you want to teach?

to be vague I was I did a sort of programming. Not computer programming where you have to know... well it was C or C+ or C+++ when I was paying attention. Anyway I want to become a teacher for the money. $$$$$

I am not willing to leave children behind solely because they have lazy and irresponsible parents because the cost on society down the road will be much higher.

We can agree on that.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

I never said it was easy. I said teachers are disgustingly over paid if you break it down to how much they make per hour (and that's not including pensions). Teaching is not easy. Sitting at home 205 days a year is easy.

I'm back in school full time. I started a business and it never got off the ground, so I spent the last 6 years paying off the cost of that & saving up for college again. My job left California & laid everyone off (like 600 people) right when I was about to quit & just focus on school. Pretty good timing for me.



Parents. I'd have parents do it of course. And if they couldn't afford the schools I'd be ok with a food-stamp style assistance at a minimal level.

Also if I had children they would be home schooled, and they would still be doing school work in the summer time. Summers off is archaic and stupid. Most people aren't harvesting crops in the summer. The first month of school ends up being all review.

Oh lord, not this religious crap again. Just stop!

 

[NinerSickness]

Oh lord, not this religious crap again. Just stop!

Look at you and your ignorance & prejudice. I didn't say a single thing about anything religious. Your true colours are showing.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

This is a very good point. Socialization is a very important skill. I have gotten by with my social skills more than my knowledge for most of my working life.

Religious nuts home school their kids in order to keep them from learning something that is different from what their parents want them to believe. They keep them ignorant so they'll swallow all this religious nonsense without question. Unfortunately they remain ignorant of how to get along in society as well.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

Look at you and your ignorance & prejudice. I didn't say a single thing about anything religious. Your true colours are showing.

Almost all parents who home school their children do so for religious reasons. they don't want their children exposed to any reason or critical thinking on the subject. Or didn't all your "brilliant" home schooled friends tell you that.

 

[NinerSickness]

Religious nuts home school their kids in order to keep them from learning something that is different from what their parents want them to believe.

So do people who want to spare their kids a craptastic public school education. And public schools have just as much propaganda as home schoolers tend to.

 

[NinerSickness]

Almost all parents who home school their children do so for religious reasons. they don't want their children exposed to any reason or critical thinking on the subject. Or didn't all your "brilliant" home schooled friends tell you that.

NN you've gone beyond just thinking religion is stupid. It's clear that you actively attack anything religious. Or more specifically, I would guess, anything Christian.

And my brilliant home schooled friends are brilliant because they spent their time reading Shakespeare, Homer & other classics rather than doing years of busy work, non-phonetic learning of words and memorization.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

So do people who want to spare their kids a craptastic public school education. And public schools have just as much propaganda as home schoolers tend to.

At least they ae exposed to different ideas and different people. That is how people learn to reason and think for themselves.

 

[NinerSickness]

At least they ae exposed to different ideas and different people. That is how people learn to reason and think for themselves.

Bull crap. They're intimidated into thinking what people who have no concern for their well being force down their throats by rule of law.

 

[sayheykid1]

I'll take California: On the average lifespan a pension adds about $40K per year in pension costs alone. The average teacher salary in 2010 was $67,871 (Sacramento Bee). I found another sourse that said $59,825, but the former may include benefits like medical, etc. Retired Teachers in California Earn More Than Working Teachers in 28 States.



to be vague I was I did a sort of programming. Not computer programming where you have to know... well it was C or C+ or C+++ when I was paying attention. Anyway I want to become a teacher for the money. $$$$$



We can agree on that.

$67,000 per year doesn't seem like a lot of money to me. There are teamsters at my job that make a lot more than that driving a truck or a forklift and they contribute $20 a month for their Cadillac health plan and have a pension that is easily as good as what teachers get.
You should be able to make a lot more than that programming. I have a friend who does database programming whenever he chooses to from wherever he happens to be at the time and he makes a lot more than that. No one tells him that he even has to work 160 days per year or 8 hours in a day.


If you are so morally opposed to the public school teachers don't you think you are being a hypocrite for wanting to become part of that system? Don't you think that as a jaded person you may be a terrible teacher?

 

[vvoland]

I never said it was easy. I said teachers are disgustingly over paid if you break it down to how much they make per hour (and that's not including pensions). Teaching is not easy. Sitting at home 205 days a year is easy.

I'm back in school full time. I started a business and it never got off the ground, so I spent the last 6 years paying off the cost of that & saving up for college again. My job left California & laid everyone off (like 600 people) right when I was about to quit & just focus on school. Pretty good timing for me.



Parents. I'd have parents do it of course. And if they couldn't afford the schools I'd be ok with a food-stamp style assistance at a minimal level.

Also if I had children they would be home schooled, and they would still be doing school work in the summer time. Summers off is archaic and stupid. Most people aren't harvesting crops in the summer. The first month of school ends up being all review.

you prove the adage that you can pay for school, but you can't buy class. i really hope you are facetious. you state your contempt for the public school teacher and yet you are about to enter the profession for the 'easy money?' that simply implies you'll be dispassionate, care nothing about the kids you'll be shaping for the rest of their life, and will collect your paycheck and flip a giant bird to the rest of us.

i'll try to address this point by point and its sure to get rather long so feel free to skip it because it may sting a bit.

most teachers i knew [grades 1-2 in the ukraine, 6-8 at a shitty cali public school - roosevelt middle, in SF - and 9-12 at a great public school: lowell] had to teach summer school or work on continuing education credits so your '3 months off in the summer' argument is tenuous, at best. while i agree that kids should be in school all year round, that is the only place where our thinking converges.

a great number of my teachers cared enough to function as psychologists, sociologists, counselors, and life coaches to a whole number of troubled kids. they cared enough to grade papers til the evening and still show up every day at 7:30. many bought school supplies [like chalk, erasers, et al] on their dime. dozens spent weekends [and some decent $$] at kinkos printing out excerpts from books the school couldn't afford. i could go on, but i have more material to cover.

this isn't to say i haven't had awful teachers. but they were just as common at my overpriced private college [think $50k] as they were at R.M.S.. it certainly seems like you'd fall into that category. your contempt for the profession certainly inspires no confidence in your passion or work ethic. your spelling also does you no favors. hence, [and that's with a C] if you were my little brother's teacher, i'd probably assault you at a PTA meeting, ensure your jaw was wired shut and someone with a bit more respect for the job would take your place until the year ended.

your home schooling example [same with the voucher system] is highly flawed because the public school has to educate 400 million americans and only a tiny percentage of that is home schooled. those that fall in the latter category are often from wealthy households, with two parents, one of whom can afford to not work and spend time with their children. often, whatever statistical advantage they gain in testing and 'grades' is negated by stunted social skills and a lack of emotional development.

you quickly hedged your $22k per child to 'minimal assistance' to poor households that can't afford to home school so i hope your entire argument is nothing more than devil's advocacy at its worst. either you intend to come off as a giant ass or you fail to understand the implication in your own writing. if you really think the solution to our failing education system is to give parents a bunch of cash and replace public schools with private ones, you're more obtuse than the warden in shawshank. more likely than not, however, you're being disingenuous. many of the problems our schools face stems from lazy, uneducated, disinterested parents. the way we style the workplace also plays a huge role as those parents that want to play an integral role in their kids' education are often too overworked to do so. 10 vacation days a year, for instance, is absurd. if most parents don't come to PTA meetings, you really think they'll home school with great success? how about the children of immigrants? they're supposed to be taught the proper use of the semi-colon by someone that can't speak the language? my father is a brilliant man but if i had to rely on him to teach me to write in english i'd make you look like hemingway by comparison.

how many public school teachers you know pull up to their workplace in a benz? i know 0. i do know, however, a ton of MBA, PhDs, & M.S. graduates that drive beemers while working a few more days per year [but far fewer hours], but with far less stress, and with virtually none of the social benefit. if you do manage to make it into the SFUSD i wonder how overpaid you'll feel the first time you'll have to grade 140 3-page essays [you may, of course, just make a note or two, fuck actually teaching, right? and call it a day]. perhaps a better example would be when some poor 12 year old is crying in your classroom after school because his step-father knocked his mom's teeth out and he has no other adult to speak to. or when some mentally unstable 10th grader threatens you with a razor blade. or a victim of pedophilia. or when a student in your class commits suicide because he was bullied in ways you may have prevented if you noticed/cared/bothered. all those things happen. DAILY!.

honestly, sick. i read this board far more often than i post. many times, i found myself enjoying your side of a debate. this entire thread, however, made me lose a ton of respect for you as a poster, a man, and a human being. i strongly encourage you to drop your pursuit and focus on some other career. it is apparent you have neither the passion nor the character to teach this country's children.

the unions are a huge problem. mostly because they protect those that espouse the same garbage you've sullied this thread with. the 'system' you propose, however, would change nothing other than the way money is allocated. to most small-government types, that is the only thing that matters. for the most part, those people have never seen a country with a truly small government. those systems are only seen in the 3rd world. every developed nation has a huge gov/bureaucracy and while it has more flaws than i would like, it beats the hell out of bangladesh, belarus, or the ivory coast.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

NN you've gone beyond just thinking religion is stupid. It's clear that you actively attack anything religious. Or more specifically, I would guess, anything Christian.
And my brilliant home schooled friends are brilliant because they spent their time reading Shakespeare, Homer & other classics rather than doing years of busy work, non-phonetic learning of words and memorization.

That would be closer to the truth. It's one thing to be ignorant but choosing to remain ignorant when the truth is there for your learning becomes stupid and I hate stupidity. That is my beef with the christians. Very feww people are brilliant so I doubt that your friends are brilliant. Even we publicly schooled cretins can read.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

Bull crap. They're intimidated into thinking what people who have no concern for their well being force down their throats by rule of law.

Sounds like what your pastor and his sheep have done to you. I'm very familiar with the rhetoric.

 

[sayheykid1]

you prove the adage that you can pay for school, but you can't buy class. i really hope you are facetious. you state your contempt for the public school teacher and yet you are about to enter the profession for the 'easy money?' that simply implies you'll be dispassionate, care nothing about the kids you'll be shaping for the rest of their life, and will collect your paycheck and flip a giant bird to the rest of us.

i'll try to address this point by point and its sure to get rather long so feel free to skip it because it may sting a bit.

most teachers i knew [grades 1-2 in the ukraine, 6-8 at a shitty cali public school - roosevelt middle, in SF - and 9-12 at a great public school: lowell] had to teach summer school or work on continuing education credits so your '3 months off in the summer' argument is tenuous, at best. while i agree that kids should be in school all year round, that is the only place where our thinking converges.

a great number of my teachers cared enough to function as psychologists, sociologists, counselors, and life coaches to a whole number of troubled kids. they cared enough to grade papers til the evening and still show up every day at 7:30. many bought school supplies [like chalk, erasers, et al] on their dime. dozens spent weekends [and some decent $$] at kinkos printing out excerpts from books the school couldn't afford. i could go on, but i have more material to cover.

this isn't to say i haven't had awful teachers. but they were just as common at my overpriced private college [think $50k] as they were at R.M.S.. it certainly seems like you'd fall into that category. your contempt for the profession certainly inspires no confidence in your passion or work ethic. your spelling also does you no favors. hence, [and that's with a C] if you were my little brother's teacher, i'd probably assault you at a PTA meeting, ensure your jaw was wired shut and someone with a bit more respect for the job would take your place until the year ended.

your home schooling example [same with the voucher system] is highly flawed because the public school has to educate 400 million americans and only a tiny percentage of that is home schooled. those that fall in the latter category are often from wealthy households, with two parents, one of whom can afford to not work and spend time with their children. often, whatever statistical advantage they gain in testing and 'grades' is negated by stunted social skills and a lack of emotional development.

you quickly hedged your $22k per child to 'minimal assistance' to poor households that can't afford to home school so i hope your entire argument is nothing more than devil's advocacy at its worst. either you intend to come off as a giant ass or you fail to understand the implication in your own writing. if you really think the solution to our failing education system is to give parents a bunch of cash and replace public schools with private ones, you're more obtuse than the warden in shawshank. more likely than not, however, you're being disingenuous. many of the problems our schools face stems from lazy, uneducated, disinterested parents. the way we style the workplace also plays a huge role as those parents that want to play an integral role in their kids' education are often too overworked to do so. 10 vacation days a year, for instance, is absurd. if most parents don't come to PTA meetings, you really think they'll home school with great success? how about the children of immigrants? they're supposed to be taught the proper use of the semi-colon by someone that can't speak the language? my father is a brilliant man but if i had to rely on him to teach me to write in english i'd make you look like hemingway by comparison.

how many public school teachers you know pull up to their workplace in a benz? i know 0. i do know, however, a ton of MBA, PhDs, & M.S. graduates that drive beemers while working a few more days per year [but far fewer hours], but with far less stress, and with virtually none of the social benefit. if you do manage to make it into the SFUSD i wonder how overpaid you'll feel the first time you'll have to grade 140 3-page essays [you may, of course, just make a note or two, fuck actually teaching, right? and call it a day]. perhaps a better example would be when some poor 12 year old is crying in your classroom after school because his step-father knocked his mom's teeth out and he has no other adult to speak to. or when some mentally unstable 10th grader threatens you with a razor blade. or a victim of pedophilia. or when a student in your class commits suicide because he was bullied in ways you may have prevented if you noticed/cared/bothered. all those things happen. DAILY!.

honestly, sick. i read this board far more often than i post. many times, i found myself enjoying your side of a debate. this entire thread, however, made me lose a ton of respect for you as a poster, a man, and a human being. i strongly encourage you to drop your pursuit and focus on some other career. it is apparent you have neither the passion nor the character to teach this country's children.

the unions are a huge problem. mostly because they protect those that espouse the same garbage you've sullied this thread with. the 'system' you propose, however, would change nothing other than the way money is allocated. to most small-government types, that is the only thing that matters. for the most part, those people have never seen a country with a truly small government. those systems are only seen in the 3rd world. every developed nation has a huge gov/bureaucracy and while it has more flaws than i would like, it beats the hell out of bangladesh, belarus, or the ivory coast.

Wow, great post!