OT: Jonathan Martin checked into looney bin

[Crimsoncrew]

That is, and will continue to be, my stance. No amount of doublespeak and ridiculous scenarios of yours can change that. For a guy who generally seems pretty smart you seem to be paticularly obtuse concerning this issue. I suspect you are doing this intentionally.

Someone speaking with Cooper is hardly a ridiculous scenario. If anyone is being obtuse, it's you. But I'll tell you what, I'll give you an even easier scenario:

1) Chip Kelly spoke with Riley Cooper about his statements. (This is an assumption, but I think we can all agree it happened at some point.)

2) When Kelly did that, he did it because Cooper is white. After all, you have repeatedly said yourself that this is only an issue because Cooper is white.

3) By speaking with Cooper, Kelly both made a decision and took action based in part on race.

4) According to your definition of racism, Kelly's decision and actions were racist.

If there's a logical failing in there - other than the underlying definition of racism - I'm not seeing it. But if you do, please enlighten me. Be specific.

 

[TobyTyler]

Someone speaking with Cooper is hardly a ridiculous scenario. If anyone is being obtuse, it's you. But I'll tell you what, I'll give you an even easier scenario:

1) Chip Kelly spoke with Riley Cooper about his statements. (This is an assumption, but I think we can all agree it happened at some point.)

2) When Kelly did that, he did it because Cooper is white. After all, you have repeatedly said yourself that this is only an issue because Cooper is white.

3) By speaking with Cooper, Kelly both made a decision and took action based in part on race.

4) According to your definition of racism, Kelly's decision and actions were racist.

If there's a logical failing in there - other than the underlying definition of racism - I'm not seeing it. But if you do, please enlighten me. Be specific.

Agreed. But the scenario you proposed and calling it racist clearly is. As far as the Kelly-Cooper conversation; all I can do is repeat the truism that I have been saying all along; a discussion can be had about racism without it being racist. I don't know any other way to say it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Agreed. But the scenario you proposed and calling it racist clearly is. As far as the Kelly-Cooper conversation; all I can do is repeat the truism that I have been saying all along; a discussion can be had about racism without it being racist. I don't know any other way to say it.

Yes, you have repeated it. But it is not consistent with your argument. Having a discussion is every bit as much making a decision and taking action as punching someone in the face is. And Cooper's race clearly would factor into Kelly's decision to have such a discussion. If race influences a decision, it is racist.

This is your stated position. And the first time you are presented with a hypothetical, you are completely abandoning it. That makes sense, as your position is stupid. But at least own it.

 

[TobyTyler]

Yes, you have repeated it. But it is not consistent with your argument. Having a discussion is every bit as much making a decision and taking action as punching someone in the face is. And Cooper's race clearly would factor into Kelly's decision to have such a discussion. If race influences a decision, it is racist.

This is your stated position. And the first time you are presented with a hypothetical, you are completely abandoning it. That makes sense, as your position is stupid. But at least own it.

Now we are getting somewhere. You just repeated my stance. All your gibberish and ridiculous posturing aside you finally got it right.

 

[I_am_1z]

Every thread is about TobyTyler, can we stop arguing with him? It's just one stubborn man whose opinion cannot be swayed, there's no reason in engaging.

 

[Dodub]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Sorry, I'm trying to cut back. I may need a 12-step program....

 

[ChrisPozz]

Dolphins hit rock bottom, keep digging | ProFootballTalk

Here’s what should have happened.


Written by Mike Florio. That highlighted line above and what comes after it in the link is why I am posting this.

 

[TobyTyler]

More and more as the story comes out Incognito is becoming the victim of a smear campaign. I trust what his teammates are saying about him, and about Martin. I had a feeling all along that this was the case. That is why I didn't jump on my high horse immediately like many on this thread did and procalim Incognito a villian who should be banished for life from the NFL for "bullying" poor Jonathan Martin..

 

[TobyTyler]

Monday Night Football is going to suck this week with ESPN inundating us with their "Richie Incognito Bully" nonsense. I won't even watch.

 

[whysies]

Monday Night Football is going to suck this week with ESPN inundating us with their "Richie Incognito Bully" nonsense. I won't even watch.

While we would all hate to see you go, if you decided to boycott the sport of football altogether we would certainly understand.

 

[TobyTyler]

While we would all hate to see you go, if you decided to boycott the sport of football altogether we would certainly understand.

We've been asked by the mods not to feed the trolls. So I will not respond further to you on this topic.

 

[Hangman]

I have been avoiding this thread for a while, but as a kid who was bullied and have met Martin I just cant stand what some people have said about him and blame him for this situation.

Think of Martin as Carlton for fresh prince of bel air. Rich parents with a great education. Then he goes from a private school to Stanford where there are kids just like him everywhere. Next he goes to Miami to a locker room where people like Carlton are treated as uncle toms. You have kids from the SEC and USC who grew up in ghettos or trailer parks who see a kid who must not be tough cause he has no street cred and acts differently. So they make fun of him and bully him and treat him as shit. He goes along with it thinking it might stop or he doesn't want to show how much it is effecting him even acting like he is friends with the main aggressors. Until finally he just had enough after going to his agent who went to the GM and did jack dick to help him. He throws down his tray and leaves.

Then everyone blames him again for not standing up for himself making fun of him all over again. It is pitiful that someone cant be who they are and how they are because it is looked upon as not being tough. He is playing RT in the NFL he is tough.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOY9CbIK9zk]Fresh Prince Moment - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TobyTyler]

I have been avoiding this thread for a while, but as a kid who was bullied and have met Martin I just cant stand what some people have said about him and blame him for this situation.

Think of Martin as Carlton for fresh prince of bel air. Rich parents with a great education. Then he goes from a private school to Stanford where there are kids just like him everywhere. Next he goes to Miami to a locker room where people like Carlton are treated as uncle toms. You have kids from the SEC and USC who grew up in ghettos or trailer parks who see a kid who must not be tough cause he has no street cred and acts differently. So they make fun of him and bully him and treat him as shit. He goes along with it thinking it might stop or he doesn't want to show how much it is effecting him even acting like he is friends with the main aggressors. Until finally he just had enough after going to his agent who went to the GM and did jack dick to help him. He throws down his tray and leaves.

Then everyone blames him again for not standing up for himself making fun of him all over again. It is pitiful that someone cant be who they are and how they are because it is looked upon as not being tough. He is playing RT in the NFL he is tough.


Fresh Prince Moment - YouTube

LOL! What a crock of shit!

 

[-AC-]

Jonathan Martin walked into a twisted world led by Incognito - ESPN

I thought this article had some interesting points...

I didn't agree with all of it, but the article was interesting none the less...

 

[-AC-]

LOL! What a crock of shit!

Why?

This isn't a situation where its a kid being picked on in a schoolyard. This is a PROFESSION, a JOB, a CAREER. The lockeroom should be full of professionals and teammates who watch out for each other, not asinine antics that send people over the edge. I'm sure you and others think Martin is a big pussy for walking away from the bullshit that happened. Anything can happen when fights break out, we have seen it over and over throughout the years. You can refer back to Ahmad Brooks' offseason to get an idea of the shit that can happen and escolate. So was Martin really a pussy, or a guy smart enough to watch out for his own well being? The guy is making millions of dollars playing a game, why would he potentially throw that away over a POS like Richie Incognito? How many arrests do we see every year from NFL players, and we are all quick to judge. Here is a player who DID the right thing by walking away, and yet people still have to critisize...

 

[TobyTyler]

Why?

This isn't a situation where its a kid being picked on in a schoolyard. This is a PROFESSION, a JOB, a CAREER. The lockeroom should be full of professionals and teammates who watch out for each other, not asinine antics that send people over the edge. I'm sure you and others think Martin is a big pussy for walking away from the bullshit that happened. Anything can happen when fights break out, we have seen it over and over throughout the years. You can refer back to Ahmad Brooks' offseason to get an idea of the shit that can happen and escolate. So was Martin really a pussy, or a guy smart enough to watch out for his own well being? The guy is making millions of dollars playing a game, why would he potentially throw that away over a POS like Richie Incognito? How many arrests do we see every year from NFL players, and we are all quick to judge. Here is a player who DID the right thing by walking away, and yet people still have to critisize...

No its not. Its a bunch for grown men playing a kids game who are expected, almost enciouraged even, to act like kids. If its true what his lawyer said that a bunch of people had altercations with Martin I think that tells us who the one in the wrong was. Now his attorney is saying he was physically abused by another player?

 

[-AC-]

No its not. Its a bunch for grown men playing a kids game who are expected, almost enciouraged even, to act like kids. If its true what his lawyer said that a bunch of people had altercations with Martin I think that tells us who the one in the wrong was. Now his attorney is saying he was physically abused by another player?

And that would be your perception. However, the NFL has gone to great lengths to get away from this mentality and change their own perception. They want to be more profesional, and have mandated certain rules to change how they come across. You might not realize it, but what Martin has done, is open the door. Whether or not anything ever comes out of this specific case does not matter. But, you can bet on the NFL going to more great lengths to make sure this type of story does not come out again...

 

[TobyTyler]

And that would be your perception. However, the NFL has gone to great lengths to get away from this mentality and change their own perception. They want to be more profesional, and have mandated certain rules to change how they come across. You might not realize it, but what Martin has done, is open the door. Whether or not anything ever comes out of this specific case does not matter. But, you can bet on the NFL going to more great lengths to make sure this type of story does not come out again...

Perhaps the suits have but the most critical element of the NFL, and the only one that matters, the players, haven't. Seems they feel nothing but disdain for Martin.

 

[-AC-]

Perhaps the suits have but the most critical element of the NFL, and the only one that matters, the players, haven't. Seems they feel nothing but disdain for Martin.

You sure about that?

Most players in survey don't want Richie Incognito - ESPN

Richie Incognito held offensive line meetings at strip club - ESPN

Former Incognito teammate: He was 'immature, unrealistic scumbag' - CBSSports.com

The cracks are quickly showing for poor Richie Incognito...