OT - 11/13/2015 Paris

[puckhead]

Some folks don't seem to realize (or want to acknowledge) that the Syrian refugees are trying to escape from these exact terrorist assholes.
The issue is, these refugee passports can be bought for $1,000.
So the filtering process has to be a bit more vigilant, but shutting the door on all Syrians is awfully cold.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I have no problem housing Syrian refugees in my state if they can be properly background checked.

I do not know how one does that, though. ISIS will definitely try to send some of their assholes into the mix.

Just another one of life's many unsolvable dilemmas I guess.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

Some folks don't seem to realize (or want to acknowledge) that the Syrian refugees are trying to escape from these exact terrorist assholes.
The issue is, these refugee passports can be bought for $1,000.
So the filtering process has to be a bit more vigilant, but shutting the door on all Syrians is awfully cold.

Creating a safe zone inside Syria was an idea floated a few months ago. Syrians on the whole want to stay in Syria...it would/is an ideal solution. Not sure why that idea didn't take off. Maybe it will now?

 

[BGDave]

I have no problem housing Syrian refugees in my state if they can be properly background checked.

I do not know how one does that, though. ISIS will definitely try to send some of their assholes into the mix.

Just another one of life's many unsolvable dilemmas I guess.

I would agree, but would add that they be closely monitored after arrival with a zero tolerance policy. Fly straight, or back to Aleppo you go.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I have no problem housing Syrian refugees in my state if they can be properly background checked.

I do not know how one does that, though. ISIS will definitely try to send some of their assholes into the mix.

Just another one of life's many unsolvable dilemmas I guess.

I don't think there are many whole-brained people who don't want to help these poor souls, but at least up here for example they're going at it in a pretty foolish way. Our new dreamy PM promised to take in 25,000 refugees by the end of 2015, which was insane to begin with and reactionary to the furore caused by that dead baby picture that the family tried blaming the old gov't for (turns out that particular family had never even applied to immigrate here, but hey who needs facts during an election!). Now that we have...oh...45 days to get it done and we now have seen a terror attack occur that did indeed involve a conspirator blending in with the helpless to hurt innocents I think it's a good time to take a step back, ensure we have taken every precaution to ensure only the truly needy are entering, and not fuck this up.

It's worth keeping in mind as well that 25,000 would be a starting point - these people will eventually sponsor family members, spouses, children etc. to join them in their new countries of residence and systems need to be prepared to accommodate all.

 

[forty_three]

Some folks don't seem to realize (or want to acknowledge) that the Syrian refugees are trying to escape from these exact terrorist assholes.
The issue is, these refugee passports can be bought for $1,000.
So the filtering process has to be a bit more vigilant, but shutting the door on all Syrians is awfully cold.

And the loudest opponents latch onto the fact that one has been "proven" to have come along with refugees.

Literally one guy out of 13 million. And that's justification to shut them ALL out? Ridiculous.

I have no problem housing Syrian refugees in my state if they can be properly background checked.

I do not know how one does that, though. ISIS will definitely try to send some of their assholes into the mix.

Just another one of life's many unsolvable dilemmas I guess.

Background checks are nearly impossible because a majority of the paperwork is forged and the places you have to call to validate are all controlled by ISIS. "Yeah, that guy? Oh hes fine. Here is a list of infidel- I mean terrorists you should send back immediately."

The better approach is to figure out who is expecting them when they get here. Who is supplying them, who is supporting them?

That's not easy either, but it's ultimately more effective.

Creating a safe zone inside Syria was an idea floated a few months ago. Syrians on the whole want to stay in Syria...it would/is an ideal solution. Not sure why that idea didn't take off. Maybe it will now?

The problem with that is it only works if the "enemy" inside Syria respects it. Most of the cities they've taken over were once considered safe. That's why they attacked them. They've left several cities in the area because there is nothing left.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

And the loudest opponents latch onto the fact that one has been "proven" to have come along with refugees.

Literally one guy out of 13 million. And that's justification to shut them ALL out? Ridiculous.

Kind of? I mean, 18 airline passengers out of millions daily wound up killing 3000 people. 5 assholes with guns and bombs just took out 140 - divide it per assailant and you can argue the one refugee who turned out to be a terrorist was responsible for the deaths of 30 innocents.

I'm all for assisting those in need, but not at the cost of public safety and I don't think those who argue that public safety is at risk by allowing in refugees wholesale are terribly off base here.

 

[forty_three]

"Fuck their weapons, we have champagne"

What an odd response.

 

[elocomotive]

Kind of? I mean, 18 airline passengers out of millions daily wound up killing 3000 people. 5 assholes with guns and bombs just took out 140 - divide it per assailant and you can argue the one refugee who turned out to be a terrorist was responsible for the deaths of 30 innocents.

I'm all for assisting those in need, but not at the cost of public safety and I don't think those who argue that public safety is at risk by allowing in refugees wholesale are terribly off base here.

Yeah, but one need not be a refugee to access either of our countries to begin with. One can simply travel to America, or Canada, or France, or Germany...

So I don't quite understand the logic of how a few thousand people seeking refuge is so dangerous to us when we still have open borders. Letting the emotionally-charged incident determine how you govern is poor governance.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yeah, but one need not be a refugee to access either of our countries to begin with. One can simply travel to America, or Canada, or France, or Germany...

So I don't quite understand the logic of how a few thousand people seeking refuge is so dangerous to us when we still have open borders. Letting the emotionally-charged incident determine how you govern is poor governance.

How are our borders open? I don't know how it is down there, but if you're travelling to Canada from any majority-Muslim country you need to apply for a travel visa.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

How are our borders open? I don't know how it is down there, but if you're travelling to Canada from any majority-Muslim country you need to apply for a travel visa.

Yes. But there is still no more information available on visa-seekers than there is on asylum seekers because there is no info that can be trusted from many of these countries.

People don't need to be here for long to do these things.

As 43 pointed out the best prevention is to attack their support network (both here and abroad). That and maybe not bombing random people half-way around the world.

 

[forty_three]

How are our borders open? I don't know how it is down there, but if you're travelling to Canada from any majority-Muslim country you need to apply for a travel visa.

Really? Even for a temporary visit?

Here, if you have a valid passport, a good reason ("I want to see the grand canyon") and a return ticket out, you can come in. You might get extra attention from TSA if you come from the middle east, but it is pretty easy. And coming as an "Asylum seeker", I wouldn't imagine it's considerably different. Until now...

Or, just go through Mexico and run through the desert.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yes. But there is still no more information available on visa-seekers than there is on asylum seekers because there is no info that can be trusted from many of these countries.

People don't need to be here for long to do these things.

As 43 pointed out the best prevention is to attack their support network (both here and abroad). That and maybe not bombing random people half-way around the world.

Are visa applicants not extensively screened?

I'm not arguing we let in nobody. This is more from a Canadian perspective, where Junior has decided to rush in 25,000 people by a self-imposed deadline just so he could be the polar opposite of his opponent in the election. I want the due diligence done - taking in such a large number of people from a war zone we are currently engaged in is pretty unique. Hell, we only took in 16,000 Afghan refugees from 2001-present. I just don't understand the rush when there is a very legitimate concern regarding security.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Really? Even for a temporary visit?

Here, if you have a valid passport, a good reason ("I want to see the grand canyon") and a return ticket out, you can come in. You might get extra attention from TSA if you come from the middle east, but it is pretty easy. And coming as an "Asylum seeker", I wouldn't imagine it's considerably different. Until now...

Or, just go through Mexico and run through the desert.

Yes. Very few countries' citizens can travel here sans-Visa. And even now, they're implementing some sort of electronic system where travellers are lightly screened even from usually "friendly" nations.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Really? Even for a temporary visit?

Here, if you have a valid passport, a good reason ("I want to see the grand canyon") and a return ticket out, you can come in. You might get extra attention from TSA if you come from the middle east, but it is pretty easy. And coming as an "Asylum seeker", I wouldn't imagine it's considerably different. Until now...

Or, just go through Mexico and run through the desert.

I don't know about ALL the ther muslim countries (just never looked into it), but yes you probably need a visa from most of them. You need one to go from Canada to a lot of countries outside of the NA and Europe too.

 

[dash]

I just don't understand the rush when there is a very legitimate concern regarding security.

The evil-doers will die of exposure in Winnipeg before they can set off explosives at the Grey Cup.

/Unless Justin provides them with coats
//People know I'm kidding, right?
///Right?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

The evil-doers will die of exposure in Winnipeg before they can set off explosives at the Grey Cup.

/Unless Justin provides them with coats
//People know I'm kidding, right?
///Right?

CBC News Alert: Justin Trudeau gives coats to Manitoba terror cell, reports say

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't know about ALL the ther muslim countries (just never looked into it), but yes you probably need a visa from most of them. You need one to go from Canada to a lot of countries outside of the NA and Europe too.

I checked Turkey and you need a Visa from them, so I'm assuming it's all of them.

 

[forty_three]

And then there is this:
Serbian police arrest man with Syrian passport matching Paris attacker's

A guy has been found in a refugee camp in Serbia with a passport nearly identical to the one found on the Stade De France bomber. The one that was checked in through Greece, etc.

So, if the guy found in Serbia is the one who checked in through the checkpoints and is the rightful owner of the passport, then it stands to reason that the passport left with the bomber is a plant with the goal of causing violence and hatred towards the people fleeing ISIS. So they either get sent back so they can be killed or people will attack them where they are.

Either that or they just ran off a bunch of copies so people could just glue their own picture to it.

Yes. Very few countries' citizens can travel here sans-Visa. And even now, they're implementing some sort of electronic system where travellers are lightly screened even from usually "friendly" nations.

I didn't know that. I know ten years ago when I thought of moving up there for work, I know fully immigrating was really tough, especially for someone in my line of work (too many Canadians out of work in my field, so they didn't "need" me. I would have had to have found a company that would move me, which I couldn't.). I didn't know they were that strict on visits, because I've never experience any kind of resistance (but I am coming from next door). Makes sense, but again you have to wonder how rampant forged docs are.

And again, that's just "legally" entering. Not like it's hard to do illegally. Although, admittedly more difficult there than here...

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I didn't know that. I know ten years ago when I thought of moving up there for work, I know fully immigrating was really tough, especially for someone in my line of work (too many Canadians out of work in my field, so they didn't "need" me. I would have had to have found a company that would move me, which I couldn't.). I didn't know they were that strict on visits, because I've never experience any kind of resistance (but I am coming from next door). Makes sense, but again you have to wonder how rampant forged docs are.

And again, that's just "legally" entering. Not like it's hard to do illegally. Although, admittedly more difficult there than here...

Moving between Canada and the US should really be a lot fucking easier than it currently is. I've been involved with trying to move in both directions, and basically it ruined my life.