OT - 11/13/2015 Paris

[elocomotive]

This...is just awful. This world.

...just forces us to experience these things all the time even though things are actually getting better.



Sad for France and it's citizens, but this is simply the era we live in. Guerilla/terrorist attacks will continue to be the norm so long as we live in a largely conflict-free world with one hegemonic power.

It doesn't feel like it, but it's actually getting better.

 

[elocomotive]

Just found out that a friend's brother was among those killed.

Never met him, but still. Messed up.

Sorry to hear that, Sabre.

 

[pixburgher66]

...just forces us to experience these things all the time even though things are actually getting better.

View attachment 52672

Sad for France and it's citizens, but this is simply the era we live in. Guerilla/terrorist attacks will continue to be the norm so long as we live in a largely conflict-free world with one hegemonic power.

It doesn't feel like it, but it's actually getting better.

Yeah, I know...it's really more the media exposure that makes it seem that much worse. That said, I think this years number has to be pretty high, including deaths IN Syria. Unless the numbers I've read are fudged (completely possible).

 

[elocomotive]

Yeah, I know...it's really more the media exposure that makes it seem that much worse. That said, I think this years number has to be pretty high, including deaths IN Syria. Unless the numbers I've read are fudged (completely possible).

Yeah, and it doesn't make this disaster any less sad. I was bummed out on Sunday. But I frequently hear "what is this world coming to?" around gun incidents and terrorism attacks and want to yell out "Peace!!!" sometimes in response.

 

[pixburgher66]

Yeah, and it doesn't make this disaster any less sad. I was bummed out on Sunday. But I frequently hear "what is this world coming to?" around gun incidents and terrorism attacks and want to yell out "Peace!!!" sometimes in response.

I think it also doesn't help that we're a country perpetually in war. That reminds me...some dude wrote an article stating that this incident will cause young Americans to know what it means to not live in peace. That hasn't been a thing since I was 10 years old brochatcho.

 

[forty_three]

...just forces us to experience these things all the time even though things are actually getting better.

View attachment 52672

Sad for France and it's citizens, but this is simply the era we live in. Guerilla/terrorist attacks will continue to be the norm so long as we live in a largely conflict-free world with one hegemonic power.

It doesn't feel like it, but it's actually getting better.

That is a disingenuous chart. When we don't call what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan a "war" it doesn't show up on the "war" chart. Nor what Russia is doing in Ukraine. All the conflicts in Africa. ISIS everywhere they are.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If everything is getting better and there's less war, why are there an estimated 13 million refugees in Europe right now? That's the largest migration from conflict since WWII. Just thinking now is a swell time to go live in a tent along the railroad tracks in Germany?

Number of refugees worldwide at a 14-year high – UN

 

[KennyBanyeah]

...just forces us to experience these things all the time even though things are actually getting better.

View attachment 52672

Sad for France and it's citizens, but this is simply the era we live in. Guerilla/terrorist attacks will continue to be the norm so long as we live in a largely conflict-free world with one hegemonic power.

It doesn't feel like it, but it's actually getting better.

I'm not so sure about that graph. More than 5 million people died in the DRC war between 1994 and 2003. It was/is the deadliest conflict since the second world war. You might be able to see 5 million deaths on that chart but that would mean that basically there were no real war zones outside of central Africa.

Maybe it's accurate but I find it hard to match those numbers with that graph.

 

[Puck082]

So ISIS just openly admitted to targeting DC next?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

So ISIS just openly admitted to targeting DC next?

I think they get a kick out of watching cable news people/Republicans freak the hell out.

When since Islamic terrorism started to be a concern has DC not been a target for these nutjobs?

 

[Puck082]

I think they get a kick out of watching cable news people/Republicans freak the hell out.

When since Islamic terrorism started to be a concern has DC not been a target for these nutjobs?

We had a crazy woman waving a gun around at 2am this morning. She shut down four blocks. Traffic was abysmal. It took me 2 hours to drive 1 mile. I can't imagine the ridiculousness this city is going to go through should there actually be an attack.

 

[forty_three]

When since Islamic terrorism started to be a concern has DC not been a target for these nutjobs?

Never. Any national capital is especially a target, but honestly any place where a headline can be made is. A resort in Tunisia? Sure. Flight from Egypt? Why not?

We had a crazy woman waving a gun around at 2am this morning. She shut down four blocks. Traffic was abysmal. It took me 2 hours to drive 1 mile. I can't imagine the ridiculousness this city is going to go through should there actually be an attack.

Were you there during the sniper?

I was 20 miles northeast and it was crazy up there. Can't imagine inside the beltway if something like that happens again.

 

[elocomotive]

That is a disingenuous chart. When we don't call what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan a "war" it doesn't show up on the "war" chart. Nor what Russia is doing in Ukraine. All the conflicts in Africa. ISIS everywhere they are.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If everything is getting better and there's less war, why are there an estimated 13 million refugees in Europe right now? That's the largest migration from conflict since WWII. Just thinking now is a swell time to go live in a tent along the railroad tracks in Germany?

Number of refugees worldwide at a 14-year high – UN

Then find another one. It will show similar results whether you call it war or conflict or terrorism or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

We had a crazy woman waving a gun around at 2am this morning. She shut down four blocks. Traffic was abysmal. It took me 2 hours to drive 1 mile. I can't imagine the ridiculousness this city is going to go through should there actually be an attack.

One thing people really aren't talking about, and I think this is being done on purpose by French officials (in terms of them, especially Hollande, talking tough and keeping the focus on retaliation and prosecution), is that this is a fucking terrible failure of intelligence. This was a large plot, involving a dozen+ people (some of whom were already being monitored or had been in the past), planned internationally, using weapons purchased abroad. For something of this magnitude to be able to happen indicates some really fucking shitty intelligence work, the likes of which was supposed to be impossible after 9/11 (let alone the Charlie Hebdo attack earlier this year).

Having said that, American intelligence is probably as thorough and airtight as its ever been, and DC is essentially a police state for the most part. Obviously anything is possible but it would really be shocking if a plot to carry out a similar attack in the States were to ever get past the planning stages before being thwarted.

 

[Puck082]

Never. Any national capital is especially a target, but honestly any place where a headline can be made is. A resort in Tunisia? Sure. Flight from Egypt? Why not?



Were you there during the sniper?

I was 20 miles northeast and it was crazy up there. Can't imagine inside the beltway if something like that happens again.

I was still in NY when the DC Sniper was going on but people around here talk about it like it happened yesterday.

 

[elocomotive]

One thing people really aren't talking about, and I think this is being done on purpose by French officials (in terms of them, especially Hollande, talking tough and keeping the focus on retaliation and prosecution), is that this is a fucking terrible failure of intelligence. This was a large plot, involving a dozen+ people (some of whom were already being monitored or had been in the past), planned internationally, using weapons purchased abroad. For something of this magnitude to be able to happen indicates some really fucking shitty intelligence work, the likes of which was supposed to be impossible after 9/11 (let alone the Charlie Hebdo attack earlier this year).

Having said that, American intelligence is probably as thorough and airtight as its ever been, and DC is essentially a police state for the most part. Obviously anything is possible but it would really be shocking if a plot to carry out a similar attack in the States were to ever get past the planning stages before being thwarted.

I think this kind of small scale attack is possible and will continue to grow as the intelligence focuses on the large scale attacks. You can't stop people from simply going into a restaurant or theater or wherever in most free countries if we want to remain free.

Tough pill to swallow but this is the reality of the world now. We can't stop everything.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think this kind of small scale attack is possible and will continue to grow as the intelligence focuses on the large scale attacks. You can't stop people from simply going into a restaurant or theater or wherever in most free countries if we want to remain free.

Tough pill to swallow but this is the reality of the world now. We can't stop everything.

This isn't really small-scale though - they had large-capacity small arms and multiple explosive units. The death toll here easily could've been double and it was already a high casualty count as it is.

 

[elocomotive]

This isn't really small-scale though - they had large-capacity small arms and multiple explosive units. The death toll here easily could've been double and it was already a high casualty count as it is.

It was terrible for a civilian attack, but if you are thinking of this as an act of war, its pretty small scale - conventional arms, a small group of people carrying out the attack, etc.

Depends on the prism you view it through.

 

[Puck082]

This isn't really small-scale though - they had large-capacity small arms and multiple explosive units. The death toll here easily could've been double and it was already a high casualty count as it is.

See that's what I worry about. Those attacks on areas that are vulnerable. You aren't getting into ANY government buildings at this point, but raiding the back door of the 9:30 club while the Foo Fighters are playing isn't outside the realm of possibility.

 

[elocomotive]

43 is terrible at apologies. Bring it, bro. Defend your terrible statement.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

It was terrible for a civilian attack, but if you are thinking of this as an act of war, its pretty small scale - conventional arms, a small group of people carrying out the attack, etc.

Depends on the prism you view it through.

Well, it's the largest attack on this particular country since a guy named Adolf came rolling across the border in search of Lebensraum and croissants. I think given how relatively peaceful the intervening 70 years have been you can qualify this as an act of war.