Ongoing NHL thread - Part III

[Bloody Brian Burke]

They gave up their 2nd rounder in the trade too though. It's not a naked 1st round pick, it's a half round upgrade at best.

If the trade had simply been a 1st, Kapanen and Harrington we'd be having a totally different conversation.

Luckily, they aren't deficient in 2nd round picks ATM.

The fact is there was next-to-no market for Phil. If he was in Toronto this year having the kind of season he's having in Pittsburgh do you think they would be able to get more than they did? Keeping in mind that the cap may actually be lower next season than it is now?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Remember that when all of these young guys need to get paid in the same couple of offseasons and there's still Kessel salary on the books. Or when years from now the Leafs need to retain salary on someone in order to deal him and can't do it because Kessel is still taking up one of the spots on their retention list.

Name one team that doesn't have dumb money on their books. Just one.

I'll gladly have Kessel's $1.2m on the books for a few years over Bickell's or Girardi's or Bolland's or Spezza's or Kesler's.

BTW, all 5 of those guys' contracts are worth over $5 mil/yr, are all terrible, and all of their teams are legit contenders today.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Well, I know it ain't Toews because he's never scored 88 points

I'll give you a hint. His biggest fan as a young player shared a home with his centreman.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'll give you a hint. His biggest fan as a young player shared a home with his centreman.

I've gone cross-eyed just trying to connect the dots on this sentence man lol

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I've gone cross-eyed just trying to connect the dots on this sentence man lol

Yeah... I can't figure this shit out.

It can't be too recent, I don't think.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yeah... I can't figure this shit out.

It can't be too recent, I don't think.

Shanny.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Name one team that doesn't have dumb money on their books. Just one.

I'll gladly have Kessel's $1.2m on the books for a few years over Bickell's or Girardi's or Bolland's or Spezza's or Kesler's.

BTW, all 5 of those guys' contracts are worth over $5 mil/yr, are all terrible, and all of their teams are legit contenders today.

It's not as much about the money. Teams are only allowed to retain salary on 3 contracts at any given time. For the next 6 years the Leafs are limited to 2. That is restricting... it was mitigated somewhat when they ended up not having to retain salary on Phaneuf, but that information wasn't available when the trade was made. It's like not being able to buy out Liles because you wasted one on Komisarek. At least Tim Gleason will be retired by the time any of this matters, so he won't be used as a solution

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

It's not as much about the money. Teams are only allowed to retain salary on 3 contracts at any given time. For the next 6 years the Leafs are limited to 2. That is restricting... it was mitigated somewhat when they ended up not having to retain salary on Phaneuf, but that information wasn't available when the trade was made. It's like not being able to buy out Liles because you wasted one on Komisarek. At least Tim Gleason will be retired by the time any of this matters, so he won't be used as a solution

Is it ideal? No.

Is it something we should at all be worried about today? Not really.

These are all problems we would be lucky to have. First, they need to build a team capable of having them. That's really all that's on my mind right now, and in that regard the Kessel deal serves the Leafs the better than keeping him around would've.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

And since we're here...

This winger had:
Age 26: 105 pts in 82 games
Age 27: 82 pts in 71 games
Age 28: 72 pts in 82 games
Age 29: 82 pts in 82 games

Is this player finished and no longer a top scorer?

 

[DragonfromTO]

And since we're here...

This winger had:
Age 26: 105 pts in 82 games
Age 27: 82 pts in 71 games
Age 28: 72 pts in 82 games
Age 29: 82 pts in 82 games

Is this player finished and no longer a top scorer?

At the moment? Probably not finished. For the following 6 years? I don't know, I have little confidence in that kind of prediction.

 

[dash]

Did somebody say prediction?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

At the moment? Probably not finished. For the following 6 years? I don't know, I have little confidence in that kind of prediction.

Here's how his next 6 years did go:

64 pts in 80 games
53 pts in 82 games
21 pts in 36 games
28 pts in 76 games
0 pts in 6 games (7 pts in 25 AHL games)
13 pts in 18 AHL games

Hint: You wouldn't wanna ride shotgun in his 'Rari.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Here's how his next 6 years did go:

64 pts in 80 games
53 pts in 82 games
21 pts in 36 games
28 pts in 76 games
0 pts in 6 games (7 pts in 25 AHL games)
13 pts in 18 AHL games

Hint: You wouldn't wanna ride shotgun in his 'Rari.

I knew who it was already BBB.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I knew who it was already BBB.

Then you know it's a futile exercise.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Then you know it's a futile exercise.

I don't even get what the argument is here. Dany Heatley fell apart, so teams should get rid of their top scorers because the same might happen?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't even get what the argument is here. Dany Heatley fell apart, so teams should get rid of their top scorers because the same might happen?

As opposed to an argument that Phil "no-corners-please" Kessel is comparable in any way to the physical beast that was Shanny based on having a downward turn in production at about the same time in their lives?

I'm not arguing teams should get rid of their top scorers based on some made-up deadline, I'm arguing it made sense for the Leafs to get rid of theirs when they did. There is literally not one part of me that misses Phil Kessel, or Dion Phaneuf for that matter.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'm actually surprised that Kessel isn't doing so well with the Pens (I argued pre-season he could challenge for 50 goals this year, an argument I regret very much), but at the same time you can't just blind yourself to the fact that for two years in a row the guy has seen a decline in his play. It's obviously not too late for him to get back on track, and he has been putting up better numbers recently (16 pts in his past 20 gms, although in the 11 of those games vs. playoff teams he only has 5 pts) but I'm much more comfortable without his deal on the Leafs' payroll save the token contribution.

And all things considered, if the Leafs hadn't re-signed him and Dion when they did and had waited a few weeks for that year's annual collapse to occur they would have traded both anyway and the team would be a year ahead in its rebuild. But that's ancient history.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

And since we're here...

This winger had:
Age 26: 105 pts in 82 games
Age 27: 82 pts in 71 games
Age 28: 72 pts in 82 games
Age 29: 82 pts in 82 games

Is this player finished and no longer a top scorer?

That's Heatley I believe... He's still decent..


in the German league

 

[DragonfromTO]

As opposed to an argument that Phil "no-corners-please" Kessel is comparable in any way to the physical beast that was Shanny based on having a downward turn in production at about the same time in their lives?

I'm not arguing teams should get rid of their top scorers based on some made-up deadline, I'm arguing it made sense for the Leafs to get rid of theirs when they did. There is literally not one part of me that misses Phil Kessel, or Dion Phaneuf for that matter.

I'm surprised that you didn't realize that I didn't select Shanny's stat line specifically because he was the best comparison, or even a good one. Hell I didn't even look for a good comparison, Shanny was literally the only guy I looked at.

 

[dash]

I see a lot of similarities between Kessel and Taylor Hall, both will get their points, but as far as team success is concerned, I don't see either guy as a go-to player when the pressure is turned up high.

/Yes, I know Hall won a couple of Memorial Cups in Windsor, but you can't compare junior hockey success to NHL success.