Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[Bloody Brian Burke]

You wonder if the Oilers had any discussion with the Penguins regarding Fleury this past off-season. I mean, if there's one thing Fleury does quite well, it's providing strong goaltending during the regular season (and something the Oilers really need). I guess it would have been too bold for MacT to dangle Yakupov for Fleury.

Signing Jonas Hiller would've gotten them a strong regular season goalie and also saved them Yakupov to trade for defensive help/help down the middle/third line depth players/new jet skis for Kevin Lowe.

 

[evolver115]

You wonder if the Oilers had any discussion with the Penguins regarding Fleury this past off-season. I mean, if there's one thing Fleury does quite well, it's providing strong goaltending during the regular season (and something the Oilers really need). I guess it would have been too bold for MacT to dangle Yakupov for Fleury.

It is an interesting question Dash. However, Fleury is already on a contract with a limited no-trade clause. I would wager one of the teams on Fleury's list that he would be unwilling to be traded to is the Oilers... for obvious reasons.

Edmonton is a team I could see Rutherford working with to unload the logjam of defensemen that Pittsburgh currently has since there is an obvious need for quality d-men for the Oilers.

I am actually pretty happy about the deal for Fleury. It only cost them an extra $750k a season, and with the projected increase of the cap over the next couple of seasons, it will basically be a wash. He's no Henrik or Jonathan Quick, but I am very interested to see how Fleury looks after a full season with a different defensive system being employed in front of him now that One Plan Dan is no longer behind the bench. Most hockey fans point to Fleury for being the problem when things went wrong for Pittsburgh in the past, but Bylsma's system oftentimes hung his goalie out to dry.

 

[IndyAndy]

Zach Parise will miss Minny's three game road trip thanks to an upper body injury sustained in the game vs. the Pens.

www.nhl.com

 

[forty_three]

It is an interesting question Dash. However, Fleury is already on a contract with a limited no-trade clause. I would wager one of the teams on Fleury's list that he would be unwilling to be traded to is the Oilers... for obvious reasons.

Edmonton is a team I could see Rutherford working with to unload the logjam of defensemen that Pittsburgh currently has since there is an obvious need for quality d-men for the Oilers.

I am actually pretty happy about the deal for Fleury. It only cost them an extra $750k a season, and with the projected increase of the cap over the next couple of seasons, it will basically be a wash. He's no Henrik or Jonathan Quick, but I am very interested to see how Fleury looks after a full season with a different defensive system being employed in front of him now that One Plan Dan is no longer behind the bench. Most hockey fans point to Fleury for being the problem when things went wrong for Pittsburgh in the past, but Bylsma's system oftentimes hung his goalie out to dry.

With the Penguins' quality on the blue line, they shouldn't need a stud goalie. They just need a system that minimizes his flaws and hope he doesn't make mistakes that cost them games. Like the ill-advised wander against the Blue Jackets last year that allowed them to tie game 4. He started OT and was already off.

He gets flustered when he has to scramble or move laterally, so the Pens have to work to reduce second chances. I know, easy on paper... But if they covered the D zone like Nashville or Minny does, Fleury looks a lot better. They keep running and gunning and joining rushes, he's going to keep getting exposed.

Quick looks good because LA knows how to win puck battles in their zone. They get to rebounds first. On a lot of teams, he would not look anywhere near as good.

 

[forty_three]

The Chicago Blackhawks reveal NHL Winter Classic jerseys | For The Win

Hawks reveal their winter classic jerseys.

"Move the shoulder patch to the elbow... JOB DONE"

 

[Cobiemonster]

With the Penguins' quality on the blue line, they shouldn't need a stud goalie. They just need a system that minimizes his flaws and hope he doesn't make mistakes that cost them games. Like the ill-advised wander against the Blue Jackets last year that allowed them to tie game 4. He started OT and was already off.

He gets flustered when he has to scramble or move laterally, so the Pens have to work to reduce second chances. I know, easy on paper... But if they covered the D zone like Nashville or Minny does, Fleury looks a lot better. They keep running and gunning and joining rushes, he's going to keep getting exposed.

Quick looks good because LA knows how to win puck battles in their zone. They get to rebounds first. On a lot of teams, he would not look anywhere near as good.

He doesn't make this save and the Kings end up sitting at home in the Stanley Cup Finals

Kings need Jonathan Quick more than he needs them - can you imagine Martin Jones starting for 60+ games? And I like Martin Jones too

 

[evolver115]

With the Penguins' quality on the blue line, they shouldn't need a stud goalie. They just need a system that minimizes his flaws and hope he doesn't make mistakes that cost them games. Like the ill-advised wander against the Blue Jackets last year that allowed them to tie game 4. He started OT and was already off.

He gets flustered when he has to scramble or move laterally, so the Pens have to work to reduce second chances. I know, easy on paper... But if they covered the D zone like Nashville or Minny does, Fleury looks a lot better. They keep running and gunning and joining rushes, he's going to keep getting exposed.

Quick looks good because LA knows how to win puck battles in their zone. They get to rebounds first. On a lot of teams, he would not look anywhere near as good.

And that is something that I think Johnston's system facilitates. The Pens have a lot more puck support when they're in their defensive zone. A lot of that probably has to do with the fact that there is no longer a winger standing at the opponent's blue line waiting to tip a puck into the offensive zone with the now banished stretch pass. It is essentially adding a 3rd man down low in the defensive zone looking to retrieve a loose puck and skate it over the blue-line.

I really think Johnston's system will help insulate Fleury a whole heck of a lot more than he's received over the past four seasons. Fleury's already up to three shutouts on the season. He's never had more than 5 in a year and it's only the beginning of November. His save% and GAA are way better than his career averages through nine starts. He just looks more comfortable in net this year. Except when he wanders away from the blue paint. Johnston needs to chain him to the post.

 

[forty_three]

He doesn't make this save and the Kings end up sitting at home in the Stanley Cup Finals

Kings need Jonathan Quick more than he needs them - can you imagine Martin Jones starting for 60+ games? And I like Martin Jones too

This illustrates my point. He makes the first save, often in highlight reel fashion. But who got to the rebound first? Look how far out of position the save carried him. If that D was not hustling and taking the play to the outside, that game was over on the next shot.

And that is something that I think Johnston's system facilitates. The Pens have a lot more puck support when they're in their defensive zone. A lot of that probably has to do with the fact that there is no longer a winger standing at the opponent's blue line waiting to tip a puck into the offensive zone with the now banished stretch pass. It is essentially adding a 3rd man down low in the defensive zone looking to retrieve a loose puck and skate it over the blue-line.

I really think Johnston's system will help insulate Fleury a whole heck of a lot more than he's received over the past four seasons. Fleury's already up to three shutouts on the season. He's never had more than 5 in a year and it's only the beginning of November. His save% and GAA are way better than his career averages through nine starts. He just looks more comfortable in net this year. Except when he wanders away from the blue paint. Johnston needs to chain him to the post.

I haven't watched much Pens hockey this year, but in the playoffs last year the Jackets saw that there were only two D back and came down the wing with 3 and spread those guys out. And it damn near worked.

If Abysmal hadn't realized it and had his centers rotate through the high slot to create odd man rushes the other way, that could have ended differently.

 

[Cobiemonster]

This illustrates my point. He makes the first save, often in highlight reel fashion. But who got to the rebound first? Look how far out of position the save carried him. If that D was not hustling and taking the play to the outside, that game was over on the next shot.

They also let the Blackhawks have a 2 on 1, which is a no-no - there were plenty of occasions where he saved them because of giving up odd man rushes

The problem with MAF in the past, isn't just getting out of his net and making dumb-minded plays, but the fact that he can't make the save they need him to when it really matters the most - he'll play well for most of the game and then give up a goal that makes you wonder, "Is his head in the game?"

He wasn't that bad last playoffs besides the boneheaded plays late in games, but in previous years(Flyers series for example), he was GOD awful and nobody could deny that

If the Penguins get their defense together, he might be okay in net for them, but you never know how they'll do come playoff time until we see it

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

He doesn't make this save and the Kings end up sitting at home in the Stanley Cup Finals

Kings need Jonathan Quick more than he needs them - can you imagine Martin Jones starting for 60+ games? And I like Martin Jones too

I think they would've been just fine with Bernier, but I do believe their system relies on having an above-average goalie.

 

[evolver115]

I haven't watched much Pens hockey this year, but in the playoffs last year the Jackets saw that there were only two D back and came down the wing with 3 and spread those guys out. And it damn near worked.

If Abysmal hadn't realized it and had his centers rotate through the high slot to create odd man rushes the other way, that could have ended differently.

The shame of it is that had been the game plan against One Plan essentially going all the way back to the 2009-10 postseason. Montreal torched Pittsburgh numerous times that post-season with odd-man breaks because there was never enough puck support in the defensive zone. Fleury took so much crap because he'd get beat when the opponent would have a 2v0 2v1 or 3v2. But how much of that criticism was actually deserved? I don't think Fleury is ever going to be in the running for a Vezina, but I also think he has a real chance to enhance his perception around the league about just how good he can be because Johnston has instituted a system that actually preaches defense.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

This illustrates my point. He makes the first save, often in highlight reel fashion. But who got to the rebound first? Look how far out of position the save carried him. If that D was not hustling and taking the play to the outside, that game was over on the next shot.

Quick would have been ok if he didnt have a trailing dman on that play to clean up the rebound ... he was close enough to the post where it could have mysteriously come off its pegs

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I think they would've been just fine with Bernier, but I do believe their system relies on having an above-average goalie.

I dont agree with that ... judging from Scrivens/Jones save % last regular season (albeit a small sample size) when Quick was hurt, theyd be ok with average goaltending

 

[forty_three]

Nobody beats the Wiz


I hope they play him with FREDERIC ST DENIS

 

[forty_three]

My buddy downtown said that FoLEENo was on the point on the Power Play at practice as well.

If only we had about four more of him. Broke neck? Nah. I'm good. Want me to play center? You got it. Slapshot off the head and collarbone? Be right back. Power play point? Why not?

Next they'll ask him if he wants to play goal.

 

[forty_three]

Sekac hit on Zadorov. Not being reviewed by the DOPeS.

I wonder if they bought a new Wheel O' Justice or if they just refurbished the old one.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I wonder if they bought a new Wheel O' Justice or if they just refurbished the old one.

I dont think this got reviewed either ... which doesnt make sense considering ratboy got 2 mins for checking to the head

 

[Cobiemonster]

I dont agree with that ... judging from Scrivens/Jones save % last regular season (albeit a small sample size) when Quick was hurt, theyd be ok with average goaltending

Yeah I'm sure with Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones, they would have been just fine in the playoffs going against San Jose, Anaheim, Chicago and the Rangers

While Jonathan Quick was out, those two goalies played half of those games against non playoff teams from mid-November to Christmas

I'm tired of the narrative that you don't need a great goalie to win a Cup with the Kings - Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones aren't even anywhere close to being on the same level as Jonathan Quick - he's the only current goalie that has multiple Stanley Cups yet people think it's the system that has made him successful?

Tired of it

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Yeah I'm sure with Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones, they would have been just fine in the playoffs going against San Jose, Anaheim, Chicago and the Rangers

While Jonathan Quick was out, those two goalies played half of those games against non playoff teams from mid-November to Christmas

I'm tired of the narrative that you don't need a great goalie to win a Cup with the Kings - Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones aren't even anywhere close to being on the same level as Jonathan Quick - he's the only current goalie that has multiple Stanley Cups yet people think it's the system that has made him successful?

Tired of it

I quite enjoy the narrative lol

I didnt say Jones/Scrivens would win a cup... just that the Kings would be ok ... and yah ... I could have certainly seen the "professor" giving up a stinker in an important playoff game because he is average at best imo

When the Kings are rolling their puck possession and ability to take the puck off opposing teams is a thing to behold ... its a great system that limits scoring opportunities

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yeah I'm sure with Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones, they would have been just fine in the playoffs going against San Jose, Anaheim, Chicago and the Rangers

While Jonathan Quick was out, those two goalies played half of those games against non playoff teams from mid-November to Christmas

I'm tired of the narrative that you don't need a great goalie to win a Cup with the Kings - Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones aren't even anywhere close to being on the same level as Jonathan Quick - he's the only current goalie that has multiple Stanley Cups yet people think it's the system that has made him successful?

Tired of it

What of Niemi, Crawford, Osgood, Fleury...