Okay, Kentucky is fucking scary

[Macho Grande]

Reminds me of the 90-91 UNLV team. Everyone said they were unbeatable too. That everyone else was just playing for second. That it would take a combination of UNLV playing their worst game of the season while their opponent played near-perfect. And that's exactly what happened when they lost in the Final Four. And That UNLV team would wipe the floor with this Kentucky team 9 times out of 10. Nobody is unbeatable.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Reminds me of the 90-91 UNLV team. Everyone said they were unbeatable too. That everyone else was just playing for second. That it would take a combination of UNLV playing their worst game of the season while their opponent played near-perfect. And that's exactly what happened when they lost in the Final Four. And That UNLV team would wipe the floor with this Kentucky team 9 times out of 10. Nobody is unbeatable.

Who is saying this UK team is unbeatable?

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Towns is going to be a great player. But he isn't getting pushed around by a bunch of NBA players all game rather than being the guy that pushes people around.

You know who he's played against more than anybody this season?

Dakari Johnson
Age: 19
Height 7'0"
Weight 255

Adding the letters "NBA" to a guys name doesn't magically make him invincible. Noel is really good, and I'd say right now probably better than Towns and Johnson, but not by a very wide margin. It's not like he's some NBA veteran. He rehabbed a year, and he's about to finish what has been a pretty successful rookie campaign. He graduated high school a year early anyway so it's not like he's years ahead of these guys.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Noel is better right now, but the margin isn't nearly as big as you're trying to make it out. Nobody is getting thrown around like a rag doll by anyone from the 76ers.

 

[SJ76]

The 89-90 Rebels were 35-5 and won their 1st title beating a younger Duke team 103-73 in the final.
The next year they were undefeated, then Duke took them out. So they weren't going for their 1st really, but back-to-back titles.


You always have to look at scenarios. Was UNLV as hungry in 90-91 as they were in 89-90? Did they have the monkey on their back, while undefeated, facing a revenge type Duke team?

When you are 21 years old, a lot can go through your mind in a game, especially is you haven't lost all year.

That's my queston really: Can UK have 6 straight games with no pressure and come out with the intensity they need to do it?

 

[flyerhawk]

You know who he's played against more than anybody this season?

Dakari Johnson
Age: 19
Height 7'0"
Weight 255

Adding the letters "NBA" to a guys name doesn't magically make him invincible. Noel is really good, and I'd say right now probably better than Towns and Johnson, but not by a very wide margin. It's not like he's some NBA veteran. He rehabbed a year, and he's about to finish what has been a pretty successful rookie campaign. He graduated high school a year early anyway so it's not like he's years ahead of these guys.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Noel is better right now, but the margin isn't nearly as big as you're trying to make it out. Nobody is getting thrown around like a rag doll by anyone from the 76ers.

Of course they aren't invincible. But NBA players are stronger. Look at just about ANY player, particular big guys, when they were in college and what they are like 3 or 4 seasons in. It's one of the big reasons why guys take a few years to get to an elite level in the pros.

Drew Gordon and Henry Sims are just going to bang away at him.

He'll get points but they won't be in the paint.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Of course they aren't invincible. But NBA players are stronger. Look at just about ANY player, particular big guys, when they were in college and what they are like 3 or 4 seasons in. It's one of the big reasons why guys take a few years to get to an elite level in the pros.

Drew Gordon and Henry Sims are just going to bang away at him.

He'll get points but they won't be in the paint.

Goddamn fucking hell. Drew Gordon is in the goddamn d-league and doesn't even play for the 76ers right now, and Henry Sims, isn't going to do shit, sitting on the goddamn bench, which is the only thing he's doing as of late.

I'm comparing Towns to the best center on the team. And he'd do fine against the best center on the team. You're trying to invent some bullshit fictional bizzaro fantasy team to play in place of the 76ers.

The 76ers are hot fucking garbage. They're still likely to beat UK most time, but don't fucking act like just because they're an NBA team, that they're worth a fucking shit.

 

[Runeman]

Of course they aren't invincible. But NBA players are stronger. Look at just about ANY player, particular big guys, when they were in college and what they are like 3 or 4 seasons in. It's one of the big reasons why guys take a few years to get to an elite level in the pros.

Drew Gordon and Henry Sims are just going to bang away at him.

He'll get points but they won't be in the paint.

Ah Hawk...you are a tough nut to crack. Again, if it was just one guy that can play inside for Kentucky, you might have a point. Kentucky has 5 bigs who are all quick and quite physical. Not many NBA teams has that size and strength inside...and these guys can run. Gotta disagree with you on this one.....and that's OK; won't be the first time you and I aren't on the same page...LOL

 

[flyerhawk]

OK. Well you guys seem to think that Kentucky could beat the Sixers. I think that if they played 50 times, they would be lucky to win 2.

It's not that the Sixers are any good. They aren't. They stink. They are still a professional team.

Since this discussion can never be proven either way I'll just leave it at that.

 

[SJ76]

Ok I'll tag in this debate.


It's not just strength that NBA post players have on these freshman/sophomores BIGS. It's footwork, post moves, IQ, fundamentals.. Even some of these 5* freshman come into the NCAA and learn to go left or right.. Some only have 1 move to go with their 19 year old frame and brain.

I think it would be interesting, but I doubt UK wins more than 1 game in a 7 gamer vs 76ers.


UK is winning because of their height and defense right now. Nothing else. Defense creates offense and wins championships.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

OK. Well you guys seem to think that Kentucky could beat the Sixers. I think that if they played 50 times, they would be lucky to win 2.

It's not that the Sixers are any good. They aren't. They stink. They are still a professional team.

Since this discussion can never be proven either way I'll just leave it at that.

No, I'm not remotely saying anything like that. I think I was very clear in saying that the 76ers would win more often than not, when I said "I think the 76ers would win more often than not" (perhaps that was a little vague)

The problem is you said

Towns is going to be a star but he would get tossed around like a rag doll by any pro team.

and that is utter horse shit, that you've been completely unable to substantiate with anything based in reality. You've pointed to all-star centers that aren't in the league anymore. you've pointed to d-league players that aren't in the league any more and you've mentioned some bench warmer, that hasn't done shit.

I continued to show you how Towns (and company) aren't going to get tossed around like a rag doll based on the real starter on an actual team.

It's pretty clear you've maed up your mind based solely on "NBA!!!!!" and didn't actually bother to look at the actual matchups that would take place. And that's fine, think whatever you want. but your reasoning for it is pretty damn sorry.

 

[GNG]

I've known Kentucky is a damn good team since they destroyed Kansas months ago, but seriously? What the hell? This team could beat the Knicks in a 7 game series. This is just unfair. . .

Yes they are good but not unbeatable despite what many think.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Yes they are good but not unbeatable despite what many think.

Asking again. Who said UK was unbeatable?

 

[flyerhawk]

and that is utter horse shit, that you've been completely unable to substantiate with anything based in reality. You've pointed to all-star centers that aren't in the league anymore. you've pointed to d-league players that aren't in the league any more and you've mentioned some bench warmer, that hasn't done shit.

Kentucky Would Lose To The 76ers At Least 78 Percent Of The Time | FiveThirtyEight

But as bad as the Sixers are, Kentucky’s roster would translate to an even worse team at the NBA level. Looking at how well players’ draft slots predicted their rookie RPM performances (and, in turn, how well ultra-early mock draft rankings like these predict a player’s draft slot), and turning the clock back on those rookie-year RPM projections using an aging curve, we can also estimate an NBA-equivalent 2014-15 RPM talent level for every player on the Wildcats’ roster. Their top prospect, Karl-Anthony Towns (who sits at No. 3 in ESPN’s class-of-2015 draft rankings), would translate to a -2.6 RPM performance at the NBA level this season, worse than almost every player on Philadelphia’s roster. Every other Kentucky player, from Willie Cauley-Stein to Alex Poythress and the Harrison twins, grade out with various shades of putrid RPM ratings that would embarrass even Hakim Warrick.

I continued to show you how Towns (and company) aren't going to get tossed around like a rag doll based on the real starter on an actual team.

Well you didn't really show me anything. You made a claim and tried to argue that weight somehow equates to strength.

It's pretty clear you've maed up your mind based solely on "NBA!!!!!" and didn't actually bother to look at the actual matchups that would take place. And that's fine, think whatever you want. but your reasoning for it is pretty damn sorry.

I made up my mind based solely on professional league versus amateur league.

Bilas-Goodman: Could the Kentucky Wildcats beat the Philadelphia 76ers? - College Basketball - ESPN

Goodman: Kentucky may be capable of playing with the Sixers, but I'm not buying that they would beat even the NBA's most dismal team. Not in a seven-game series, not once in a seven-game series, and not once in 15 attempts. Karl-Anthony Towns is ultra-talented, but he can't handle the physicality just yet -- even against guys like Sims or the 23-year-old Davies. He has difficulty doing it right now in college. We'll see that a year from now, when Towns is putting up modest numbers as a rookie and having trouble adjusting to going against bigger and stronger players. I'll take NBA veteran Mbah a Moute over Alex Poythress. I'll take McDaniels over Devin Booker. Again, not even close.

 

[gpm1976]

Ah Hawk...you are a tough nut to crack. Again, if it was just one guy that can play inside for Kentucky, you might have a point. Kentucky has 5 bigs who are all quick and quite physical. Not many NBA teams has that size and strength inside...and these guys can run. Gotta disagree with you on this one.....and that's OK; won't be the first time you and I aren't on the same page...LOL

The one big thing that stands out in the nba is how fast the game moves and how those guys can just flat out shoot the shit out of it from everywhere! College kids just can't shoot anywhere near that level. UK made some shots the other night, but they had to have their feet set first. The last college player I saw that truly shot like an nba player was curry. The bigs for UK have been good, but I don't think any of them are super skilled. Okafor for Duke is way ahead of them as far as offense is concerned. As good as UK seems to be at the college level when they're on, I just don't see them being able to even buy one game in the nba... their guards just don't shoot well enough and bigs would get smothered.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Kentucky Would Lose To The 76ers At Least 78 Percent Of The Time | FiveThirtyEight

Well, that's at least something meaningful, so i'll give you credit for that, it does backup the general thing we agree upon (that the 76ers would beat UK more often than not) It doesn't really help out your rag-doll comment.

And I don't necessarily think their methodology is bulletproof either. They're trying to normalize their data to playing against average NBA teams, but the 76ers aren't an average NBA team, they're an awful NBA team, so UK's number should be much improved when playing the 76ers, compared to an average NBA team.

Not to mention two of the players mentioned as huge impact players for the 76ers...

• Center Nerlens Noel was first-team All-SEC two seasons ago; if he were in college now, he’d likely be considered the best player in the country;
• Point guard Michael Carter-Williams was an honorable mention All-American as an NCAA sophomore; had he not left Syracuse, he would likely be considered the best guard in the college game;
• Guard Tony Wroten made first-team All-Pac 12 as a freshman two years ago;
• And rookie K.J. McDaniels was named to the All-ACC first team last season.

...aren't even on the team anymore.

Well you didn't really show me anything. You made a claim and tried to argue that weight somehow equates to strength.

Well, weight is going to have an impact on things because strength comes from muscle, and muscle adds weight. Bigger guys are nearly always stronger than scrawny guys. Age is also a factor too, and Towns (and the rest of UK's bigs for that matter) are all approximately the same age as Noel.

I made up my mind based solely on professional league versus amateur league.

Bilas-Goodman: Could the Kentucky Wildcats beat the Philadelphia 76ers? - College Basketball - ESPN

That's a great generalization, (one that I agree with) but dismissing a specific instance because you believe in some generalization is bad logic.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Notre Dame will be much better than you think. They are a whole lot better than just a three point shooting club.

They run a good offense, but kentuckys length on defense will give them the most trouble they have had all season. I see this going the way of the cincinatti game. They'll grind it out for most of the game, but still lose by 20. Kentucky is just too damn good. They don't stan a chance of losing until the final four.

 

[flyerhawk]

And I don't necessarily think their methodology is bulletproof either. They're trying to normalize their data to playing against average NBA teams, but the 76ers aren't an average NBA team, they're an awful NBA team, so UK's number should be much improved when playing the 76ers, compared to an average NBA team.

They said that an average team would win almost 90% of the time.

Not to mention two of the players mentioned as huge impact players for the 76ers...



...aren't even on the team anymore.

I know this. I can't help that was when the article was written. The article also says that they are likely overweighting Kentucky.

Well, weight is going to have an impact on things because strength comes from muscle, and muscle adds weight. Bigger guys are nearly always stronger than scrawny guys. Age is also a factor too, and Towns (and the rest of UK's bigs for that matter) are all approximately the same age as Noel.

Right and virtually EVERY college player who makes it to the pros is expected to gain significant strength because they need to.

That's a great generalization, (one that I agree with) but dismissing a specific instance because you believe in some generalization is bad logic.

It's based on the different levels of play.

Karl Towns is going to be able absolute stud in the NBA. And he is more talented than anyone on the Sixers rosters save perhaps Noel. But he would get dominated in the painted. He would be facing guy that are stronger that anyone he has played against and who are far more knowledgeable about how to play the game. Their footwork alone would be enough for them to dominate Towns at this point in his career.

You don't have to agree with me. I can't prove it obviously but there is simply a massive gulf between pro and college.

 

[Wishbone]

You never know what can happen. In 1988 Oklahoma beat Kansas 3 times in the regular season and then lost by 1 point I think to them in the national title game.

 

[gpm1976]

I know this. I can't help that was when the article was written. The article also says that they are likely overweighting Kentucky.


Right and virtually EVERY college player who makes it to the pros is expected to gain significant strength because they need to.



It's based on the different levels of play.

Karl Towns is going to be able absolute stud in the NBA. And he is more talented than anyone on the Sixers rosters save perhaps Noel. But he would get dominated in the painted. He would be facing guy that are stronger that anyone he has played against and who are far more knowledgeable about how to play the game. Their footwork alone would be enough for them to dominate Towns at this point in his career.

You don't have to agree with me. I can't prove it obviously but there is simply a massive gulf between pro and college.

To add to what you said.. everyone in the nba is super quick and athletic. There may be some nba talent on UK(I know there are certainly players on there that will never set foot in the nba), but EVERYONE on the sixers was elite in college and has nba ability. There's just no way UK has enough fire-power to step on the court against any NBA team and not get embarrassed.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

It's based on the different levels of play.

Karl Towns is going to be able absolute stud in the NBA. And he is more talented than anyone on the Sixers rosters save perhaps Noel. But he would get dominated in the painted. He would be facing guy that are stronger that anyone he has played against and who are far more knowledgeable about how to play the game. Their footwork alone would be enough for them to dominate Towns at this point in his career.

You don't have to agree with me. I can't prove it obviously but there is simply a massive gulf between pro and college.

Again, I agree with your premise in general. But I don't see it working out this way in this particular instance. The sixers have some very talented young players (Well, they traded MCW and Embiid is still not playing afaik, but Noel is pretty good) and some veterans that used to be good, and outside of that, it's just a bunch of random roster fillers.

you say NBA guys are stronger, better, faster, more footwork, etc, and I'm asking who on the sixers roster actually fits that bill. Noel basically has a (as in one, singular) year on any of the UK guys. I have a hard time believing that a year makes that much of a difference. Improved? sure. Unstoppable. Nope. not buying that.

Also worth noting, if that little bit of experience makes such a huge difference, Towns also played on the Dominican national team (with and against NBA players) when he was 16 years old. So if you're looking for experience playing against NBA guys, he arguably has more than Noel.

Like I said, I'm still giving the nod to Noel and the Sixers. but you're being awfully dismissive considering what a fucking mess the Sixers are.

I'd be willing to bet in 5 years that there are more guys from this UK team on an NBA roster than there are players from the current Sixers roster.