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DALLAScornhusker

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Makes sense to me to do it now. I know many others disagree. I think Dez's best days are behind him. He's not nearly good enough at the technical aspects of the game to expect anything but a decline in production as his physical tools erode. All his talk about taking it personal and hiring a route coach, is a joke IMO. He should have been focusing on his route running years ago. Still a decent enough player, just not at his current contract, and I could do without the sideline nonsense.
I think we can all agree Dez is not worth his contract. Where I have been split is cutting him this year vs next year. It doesn't seem like he is facing enough pressure to take a pay cut.
 

Manster7588

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Whispers that Dez is going to get cut are starting to get louder. Some yahoo from Yahoo is putting himself out there. Are we past 50/50?
I don't think it will happen, and no I don't want it to happen. I'm fully on board Dez will be a major asset with true speed on the other side.

That said he need to take a pay cut.
 

tomodach10

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I think we can all agree Dez is not worth his contract. Where I have been split is cutting him this year vs next year. It doesn't seem like he is facing enough pressure to take a pay cut.

At the time he signed it he was worth the contract. I hope he takes a pay cut to help the team, but if he doesn't I am not going to be upset about it. This is a prove it year for Dez, cutting him this year, would be stupid IMO
 

jarntt

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My guess (and of course it a total guess because I have no clue what the plan is) is the team (errr Jerry) 100% does not want to cut Dez this year. If they wanted to it would have happened already. They will approach him with an offer to reduce his salary. If he doesn't accept that offer it then may become a 50/50 (probably less) type scenario. But I don't see any chance of them cutting him without having that conversation first. Jerry is always thinking we are one break from a SB and in his mind this would be a step backwards.

It also seems Jerry likes to keep his ex-lovers happy. When we cut guys or demote guys it always seems to be with their egos/pocketbooks in mind too. Cutting Dez now would screw him as all the big money is already gone. The other thing to keep in mind with Jerry is that cutting Dez does almost nothing for us this year. Jerry is like a child that can't see beyond the next 30 seconds. If we cut Dez we really won't do much with the savings at this point (ideally go for a safety or Bowman but will we?). Cutting him today saves us $8M against this years cap and $16.5M against next years. It could really help us next offseason or even when the Dak/Zeke contracts are up and put us in a good situation with regards to the cap. But when has Jerry wanted to walk around with cash in his pocket that he doesn't spend?
 

jarntt

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I don't think it will happen, and no I don't want it to happen. I'm fully on board Dez will be a major asset with true speed on the other side.

That said he need to take a pay cut.
I think a guy stretching the field will help Dez/Witten/Beasley and have said it since before this offseason when it seemingly became trendy (not to pretend I was the only one of course) but the idea that he will all of a sudden instantly become a "major asset" again seems more a pipe dream to me and it's almost being looked at like that's all we need to do and he'll be fine nowadays. It isn't magic. The main issue with Dez is Dez. If you drop balls and can't be where the QB thinks you should be not much else matters and you are going to hurt the team. If you don't have speed to separate, can't run routes that allow you to separate and no longer win 50/50 battles a deep threat won't help too much. In every big game and in every game where a CB was basically given Dez to cover him, you could see Dez was more concerned with the DB shit talking him and owning him than actually winning the game. He is mentally weak and guys got in his head and took him off his game over and over. He was also single covered almost exclusively last year. The most obvious benefit of the deep threat is that it takes the safety help away. I don't remember too many times when there was a safety deep on Dez's giving help. Every time he went down the sideline it was always one on one and he just couldn't get open or win the ball.

My thoughts on Dez remain the team needs to use him more in crossing patterns and slants. That is where he can use his strength and there isn't much room for miscommunication or "thinking" on his part. He seems to do better when it's just instinct taking over and using his body to position. It's also where the middle of the field can open up a little if the defense needs to respect the downfield threat (Whether it's a safety or a nickel LB that has to be a little deeper or just not be in that area at all), which to me is where he benefits from a deep threat. I've also thought for years that they need to put him in motion more and move him around to allow him to get off the line and at least give the appearance he isn't running the same 3 patterns each play. Maybe he needs to play out of the slot a little more too. He just can't win the battles on the outside at this point. The problem there is Beasley and Witten. You can't have everyone in the middle of the field on every play. But, the biggest issue is in his head. If he can become mentally strong and stop worrying about get owned or his numbers or everything else I think he can help this team win games and that is why I would probably keep him one more year.:2cents:
 

jarntt

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Whispers that Dez is going to get cut are starting to get louder. Some yahoo from Yahoo is putting himself out there. Are we past 50/50?

My guess (and of course it a total guess because I have no clue what the plan is) is the team (errr Jerry) 100% does not want to cut Dez this year. If they wanted to it would have happened already. They will approach him with an offer to reduce his salary. If he doesn't accept that offer it then may become a 50/50 (probably less) type scenario. But I don't see any chance of them cutting him without having that conversation first. Jerry is always thinking we are one break from a SB and in his mind this would be a step backwards.

It also seems Jerry likes to keep his ex-lovers happy. When we cut guys or demote guys it always seems to be with their egos/pocketbooks in mind too. Cutting Dez now would screw him as all the big money is already gone. The other thing to keep in mind with Jerry is that cutting Dez does almost nothing for us this year. Jerry is like a child that can't see beyond the next 30 seconds. If we cut Dez we really won't do much with the savings at this point (ideally go for a safety or Bowman but will we?). Cutting him today saves us $8M against this years cap and $16.5M against next years. It could really help us next offseason or even when the Dak/Zeke contracts are up and put us in a good situation with regards to the cap. But when has Jerry wanted to walk around with cash in his pocket that he doesn't spend?
Interesting. Just saw this. Not sure where he is getting his info, but I stick with the premise that we don't cut him unless there is first a conversation about a pay cut.

 

Manster7588

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I think a guy stretching the field will help Dez/Witten/Beasley and have said it since before this offseason when it seemingly became trendy (not to pretend I was the only one of course) but the idea that he will all of a sudden instantly become a "major asset" again seems more a pipe dream to me and it's almost being looked at like that's all we need to do and he'll be fine nowadays. It isn't magic. The main issue with Dez is Dez. If you drop balls and can't be where the QB thinks you should be not much else matters and you are going to hurt the team. If you don't have speed to separate, can't run routes that allow you to separate and no longer win 50/50 battles a deep threat won't help too much. In every big game and in every game where a CB was basically given Dez to cover him, you could see Dez was more concerned with the DB shit talking him and owning him than actually winning the game. He is mentally weak and guys got in his head and took him off his game over and over. He was also single covered almost exclusively last year. The most obvious benefit of the deep threat is that it takes the safety help away. I don't remember too many times when there was a safety deep on Dez's giving help. Every time he went down the sideline it was always one on one and he just couldn't get open or win the ball.

My thoughts on Dez remain the team needs to use him more in crossing patterns and slants. That is where he can use his strength and there isn't much room for miscommunication or "thinking" on his part. He seems to do better when it's just instinct taking over and using his body to position. It's also where the middle of the field can open up a little if the defense needs to respect the downfield threat (Whether it's a safety or a nickel LB that has to be a little deeper or just not be in that area at all), which to me is where he benefits from a deep threat. I've also thought for years that they need to put him in motion more and move him around to allow him to get off the line and at least give the appearance he isn't running the same 3 patterns each play. Maybe he needs to play out of the slot a little more too. He just can't win the battles on the outside at this point. The problem there is Beasley and Witten. You can't have everyone in the middle of the field on every play. But, the biggest issue is in his head. If he can become mentally strong and stop worrying about get owned or his numbers or everything else I think he can help this team win games and that is why I would probably keep him one more year.:2cents:
A few here have talked about finding a way to stretch the field, this is the first offseason I think the team is also thinking about it it's going to happen.
 

UK Cowboy

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I really like Tre Boston from SD. He is a young, proven guy, and he could shore up safety for us going into the draft
 

jarntt

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I really like Tre Boston from SD. He is a young, proven guy, and he could shore up safety for us going into the draft
me too. He played well last year, but not so much before that so that could be part of the issue. Haven't heard much talk about him talking with any teams
 

Eiknarflin

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Wasn't Schultz the guy who also said that Dallas interest in Zeke was just a smoke screen?

Most of these guys make outlandish statements like this just to make a splash and have their name out there. Every once in a while, their predictions come true and they say, "See, I told you." Meanwhile, we're supposed to forget the 1001 times their predictions were grossly inaccurate.
 

scotsman1948

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Interesting. Just saw this. Not sure where he is getting his info, but I stick with the premise that we don't cut him unless there is first a conversation about a pay cut.

they will offer a restructured contract that reduces his cap hit. he is owed $33M over the next 2 years so how about a 2 year extension that makes the deal 4 years for the same $33M with $16.5M guaranteed. $8.25M a year. if he says no then release him
 

jarntt

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they will offer a restructured contract that reduces his cap hit. he is owed $33M over the next 2 years so how about a 2 year extension that makes the deal 4 years for the same $33M with $16.5M guaranteed. $8.25M a year. if he says no then release him
I get the reduction in salary part, but why would you want him here for 4 years if you don't feel he is worth having on the team this year?? Plus he isn't going for that. He will only sign something that allows for himself to maximize his future earning potential. He isn't locking in for 4 years at a lower level.

This is kind of exactly what I'm hoping they avoid. Don't reduce his cap hit year 1 but push it back into a future year and also don't give him a pay cut but guarantee a future year to make it more palatable. Reduce or leave it alone IMO. Anything that makes it less beneficial to cutting him next year I am against. I'm only not cutting him this year to give him one more chance. If he plays like crap again he needs to be off this team before March of 2018. I'd even be fine cutting this years salary by let's say $3M and leaving next years alone, or increasing next years by the same amount as long as it isn't guaranteed. That allows him to be a FA next year if we cut him or if he plays well we need to pay him more and he makes it up. We can always cut him and still be done with the contract if we so choose.
 

scotsman1948

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I get the reduction in salary part, but why would you want him here for 4 years if you don't feel he is worth having on the team this year?? Plus he isn't going for that. He will only sign something that allows for himself to maximize his future earning potential. He isn't locking in for 4 years at a lower level.

This is kind of exactly what I'm hoping they avoid. Don't reduce his cap hit year 1 but push it back into a future year and also don't give him a pay cut but guarantee a future year to make it more palatable. Reduce or leave it alone IMO. Anything that makes it less beneficial to cutting him next year I am against. I'm only not cutting him this year to give him one more chance. If he plays like crap again he needs to be off this team before March of 2018. I'd even be fine cutting this years salary by let's say $3M and leaving next years alone, or increasing next years by the same amount as long as it isn't guaranteed. That allows him to be a FA next year if we cut him or if he plays well we need to pay him more and he makes it up. We can always cut him and still be done with the contract if we so choose.
don't want him for 4 years it is the $16.5M guaranteed that hooks him and then he can walk after 2 years
 

jarntt

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don't want him for 4 years it is the $16.5M guaranteed that hooks him and then he can walk after 2 years
If we did that and cut him after 2 years we'd have a huge cap hit due to dead money.
 

jarntt

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not if Dez choses to opt out
I see what you said now. Dez is not signing a 4 year deal for only $8.5M per year, but here is how that would play out if I am understanding you correctly.
Right now we have $8M to hit the cap either way. If we do nothing 4 this year and 4 next. If we bump that up to $16.5M it doesn't take away the $8M that hasn't hit the cap from his bonus so you are now increasing that to $24M. If the $16M you mention is a signing or restructure bonus it gets spread over the 4 years ($4M per year). So in addition to salary you would allocate $8M per year to the cap for 2018 and 2019 and $4M in 2020 and 2021. So if you cut him after 2019 there is still the same $8M left in dead money two years from now that we are trying to unload today.

The other option is make the $16.5M you mentioned guaranteed salary for 2018 and 2019 and another $8.25M per year (not guaranteed) in 2020 and 2021. That obviously makes him uncuttable this year which is fine. So in addition to his $4M dead money right now that would make his 2018 and 2019 cap hits $16.5M which is exactly what his cap hit is now. Why would we do that? And it makes him uncuttable next year as well (which is not good) because we would still have $16.5M in dead money
 

DALLAScornhusker

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Dez needs to be shown that we can clearly move on without him. S. Jones has repeatedly talked about pay cut. He needs to go full @hole, start talking cut and drafting our next great WR and moving on. The Jones can play good cop bad cop and maybe get a restructure done.
 

ROMOTOOWENS

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Any interest in Johnny Football ?? He is getting a lot of publicity this week.
 

jarntt

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