Official Raw thread

[Duffman]

Except Brock did sit back and let it happen for 3-4 weeks before he took action. That's classic WWE booking.

Brock attacked them the first time he showed up, Brock doesn’t show up every week so that only works is if he’s there every week and only decided to do something now, this is his first appearance since Summer Slam and he did something about it.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Brock attacked them the first time he showed up, Brock doesn’t show up every week so that only works is if he’s there every week and only decided to do something now, this is his first appearance since Summer Slam and he did something about it.

That's exactly my point. If you're that ticked off, you show up and raise holy hell til you get your way. It loses it's luster IMO if you wait 4 weeks at home on your couch then suddenly decide to appear and do something. You can't be that ticked if you're willing to wait a month.

 

[Duffman]

That's exactly my point. If you're that ticked off, you show up and raise holy hell til you get your way. It loses it's luster IMO if you wait 4 weeks at home on your couch then suddenly decide to appear and do something. You can't be that ticked if you're willing to wait a month.

Brock is different because everyone knows his sporadic schedule. You know that Brock doesn’t show up all the time so even though he’s pissed you can explain it like he doesn’t work for free and they didn’t wanna pay him so he wasn’t showing up. And that’s exactly a thing Paul Heyman has used in the past whenever Brock lost and didn’t come back right away, they could definitely say that tonight.

Back when he first came back and was losing to a few different people he would lose and then go 3-4 months without showing up and then when he came back he would go out and attack that person leading to another match.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Brock is different because everyone knows his sporadic schedule. You know that Brock doesn’t show up all the time so even though he’s pissed you can explain it like he doesn’t work for free and they didn’t wanna pay him so he wasn’t showing up. And that’s exactly a thing Paul Heyman has used in the past whenever Brock lost and didn’t come back right away, they could definitely say that tonight.

Back when he first came back and was losing to a few different people he would lose and then go 3-4 months without showing up and then when he came back he would go out and attack that person leading to another match.

Disagree. His part time shit has gotten old. You're either All-in or you're not (pun intended). If you're not, fine, go off to MMA where it's OK to fight 2 or 3 times a year. This WWE/wrestling where there is no off season, show up every week or get out!!!

 

[Duffman]

Disagree. His part time shit has gotten old. You're either All-in or you're not (pun intended). If you're not, fine, go off to MMA where it's OK to fight 2 or 3 times a year. This WWE/wrestling where there is no off season, show up every week or get out!!!

But regardless of what you think about him being a part timer doesn’t change the fact that he is and everyone’s aware of it. Some fans being tired of Brock Lesnar doesn’t change the storylines he’s involved in, like it or not you know what you’re getting.

Hell when he was champion leading into Wrestlemania Roman had the storyline where Brock does what Brock wants and even though he’s the champion he doesn’t feel the need to show up, that established right there at that that’s who Brock Lesnar is and the fans know that but as we saw last night they don’t care they still like him and are happy to see him wreak havoc.

 

[futballiscool]

Ok.

1) Save that later. Would make a helluva WM match but that WWE title match was amazing.

2) That is the issue with the Dual Branded PPV. Why they went back to monthly is beyond me

1. If I was fantasy booking I'd have a younger talent (Rollins in a Rumble win/brand switch, Gargano in a call up, Almas in a face turn) eventually be the one to beat AJ at WM. Bryan would be perfect to get AJ over as a heel now. I thought the match last night was great too. The dead crowd is why I think they need to turn Styles to get more crowd reactions in his matches.

2. Agreed it is one of the flaws of dual branded PPVs

 

[wildturkey]

It was not shit match, it was a damn good one and the finish didn’t hurt anything to me. You have two people who both have teams backing him up so obviously they’re going to get involved and then you have Brock who thinks he lost the title by getting screwed because of Strowman coming out so he has a problem and isn’t going to sit back and let it happen. That’s classic booking. Now we’re likely going to get a good angle coming from Raw tonight and while they already have a match scheduled at the Australian super show we could see a 3 way at Survivor Series and that should also be a good match.

Go back and watch every single Hell in a cell match in history, you’ll find 90% of them are “an overbooked clusterfuck” according to your reasoning. These matches always have some type of interference if the storyline calls for it and this storyline called for it, so maybe try putting aside your hatred of Brock or Roman or whoever and look at the bigger picture instead of bitching to high heaven because you don’t know what building a story means and creating interest for the future.

Roman and Braun did a routine brawl for a few minutes, Roman spammed the hell of the Superman punch then they literally laid on the ground for 5 minutes or longer taking a nap while everyone else ran around the cage. When it was all said in done you had SIX people interfere in the match, Mick Foley is there for...reasons, and it ends in a non finish. Yeah, brilliant match. Classic booking. Not convoluted at all. You are like one of the only people out there that says it was great. Take your contrarian trolling elsewhere.

 

[wildturkey]

Lio Rush and Bobby Lashley has the potential to be as big as Enzo and Cass, except the former can actually wrestle. I'm digging this pairing

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

But regardless of what you think about him being a part timer doesn’t change the fact that he is and everyone’s aware of it. Some fans being tired of Brock Lesnar doesn’t change the storylines he’s involved in, like it or not you know what you’re getting.

Hell when he was champion leading into Wrestlemania Roman had the storyline where Brock does what Brock wants and even though he’s the champion he doesn’t feel the need to show up, that established right there at that that’s who Brock Lesnar is and the fans know that but as we saw last night they don’t care they still like him and are happy to see him wreak havoc.

Stop drinking the cool aid for a minute will ya. Brock just like every wrestler is under contract to WWE. He does what they tell him to do. He shows up when they tell him to and not the other way around no matter what storyline BS WWE uses to keep Brock off TV. Bottomline, It's bad booking no matter how you cut it. WWE could've had Brock show up anytime before the PPV to further the angle but they didn't. Now last night we learn there'll be a triple threat match in 2 months to settle this. That's just too long of a gap to keep Brock and this storyline relevant anymore. In the meantime, everyone else involved will just tread water. It kills any of the momentum they generated from the PPV. It's one of the main reasons Raw is hard to watch at times.

 

[Duffman]

Roman and Braun did a routine brawl for a few minutes, Roman spammed the hell of the Superman punch then they literally laid on the ground for 5 minutes or longer taking a nap while everyone else ran around the cage. When it was all said in done you had SIX people interfere in the match, Mick Foley is there for...reasons, and it ends in a non finish. Yeah, brilliant match. Classic booking. Not convoluted at all. You are like one of the only people out there that says it was great. Take your contrarian trolling elsewhere.

Actually I’ve seen quite a few people(including some very well respected wrestling journalists in the industry) say it was a good match and are good with the finish because you got a great paper view before it and it’s going to lead to something in the future, but sure take your bullshit “you like it so you must be trolling” garbage somewhere else.

 

[Duffman]

Stop drinking the cool aid for a minute will ya. Brock just like every wrestler is under contract to WWE. He does what they tell him to do. He shows up when they tell him to and not the other way around no matter what storyline BS WWE uses to keep Brock off TV. Bottomline, It's bad booking no matter how you cut it. WWE could've had Brock show up anytime before the PPV to further the angle but they didn't. Now last night we learn there'll be a triple threat match in 2 months to settle this. That's just too long of a gap to keep Brock and this storyline relevant anymore. In the meantime, everyone else involved will just tread water. It kills any of the momentum they generated from the PPV. It's one of the main reasons Raw is hard to watch at times.

I know what WWE is, and I like it for that I know what I’m getting, I expect that and I’m fine.

I’m sorry if you’re the type of person who goes to a sushi restaurant that clearly advertises they have sushi and then bitches because they don’t have hamburgers.

I’m not gonna lump you in with the same idiots that boo Roman but WWE is entertainment and they say Brock can do whatever Brock wants so just because you’re an “insider” doesn’t mean you can completely ignore storylines and what they set up because WWE controls everything and it’s not real.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

I know what WWE is, and I like it for that I know what I’m getting, I expect that and I’m fine.

I’m sorry if you’re the type of person who goes to a sushi restaurant that clearly advertises they have sushi and then bitches because they don’t have hamburgers.

I’m not gonna lump you in with the same idiots that boo Roman but WWE is entertainment and they say Brock can do whatever Brock wants so just because you’re an “insider” doesn’t mean you can completely ignore storylines and what they set up because WWE controls everything and it’s not real.

I love sushi, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm a fan of Roman, so once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Kafabe has been over since the 90's, everyone is an insider now.

 

[Duffman]

I love sushi, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

Clearly you missed the point.

I'm a fan of Roman, so once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Kafabe has been over since the 90's, everyone is an insider now.

You're right, I'm sure that all the 7-12 year olds that go to WWE shows are listening to hour long wrestling podcasts every day about all the insider workings of the business. Ya I'm sure that's it.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Clearly you missed the point.

You had a point???

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

You're right, I'm sure that all the 7-12 year olds that go to WWE shows are listening to hour long wrestling podcasts every day about all the insider workings of the business. Ya I'm sure that's it.

All 7-12 year olds have smart phones and IPads now. They're surfing the wrestling news sites all day long. Hell, they can just go on the WWE Network and see all kinds of behind the scenes stuff. Welcome to the 21st Century!!!

 

[wildturkey]

Actually I’ve seen quite a few people(including some very well respected wrestling journalists in the industry) say it was a good match and are good with the finish because you got a great paper view before it and it’s going to lead to something in the future, but sure take your bullshit “you like it so you must be trolling” garbage somewhere else.

Yeah, no. You're just pulling shit out of your ass with that one because you're trolling. How dumb do you think we are? We're posting on a wrestling forum. That means we're all overly dedicated fans so we listen and read all that reaction. The overwhelming majority of fans, podcasters, and journalists are all saying it was an overbooked, contrived mess.

 

[wazzu31]

To me that ending completely made the universal championship worthless. How can you have a championship match that the title means anything that the guys wrestling are the third wheel of that actual match?

 

[Duffman]

Yeah, no. You're just pulling shit out of your ass with that one because you're trolling. How dumb do you think we are? We're posting on a wrestling forum. That means we're all overly dedicated fans so we listen and read all that reaction. The overwhelming majority of fans, podcasters, and journalists are all saying it was an overbooked, contrived mess.

Wow if you’re gonna be fucking retarded I’m done with you. Go read PWInsider, the most respected wrestling news site on the internet. Dave Scherer, Mike Johnson, and Mike Epsenhart who are the main 3 of that site have all spoke very highly about the finish.

Now please hit me back with something how I made all those people up and they really didn’t say any of that to continue whatever bullshit garbage you want to keep spewing because you’re too fucking stubborn to admit that other people have opinions and some people actually can see why the finish makes sense.

You didn’t like the finish, good for you I’m not telling you you should love it and how you should feel but of course I am not a gigantic asshole who can’t accept that somebody might’ve actually understood what they were doing. No I clearly have made everything up and I’m just trolling.

 

[wildturkey]

Wow if you’re gonna be fucking retarded I’m done with you. Go read PWInsider, the most respected wrestling news site on the internet. Dave Scherer, Mike Johnson, and Mike Epsenhart who are the main 3 of that site have all spoke very highly about the finish.

Now please hit me back with something how I made all those people up and they really didn’t say any of that to continue whatever bullshit garbage you want to keep spewing because you’re too fucking stubborn to admit that other people have opinions and some people actually can see why the finish makes sense.

You didn’t like the finish, good for you I’m not telling you you should love it and how you should feel but of course I am not a gigantic asshole who can’t accept that somebody might’ve actually understood what they were doing. No I clearly have made everything up and I’m just trolling.

You're not trolling because you liked it. You're trolling because you keep trying to tell people it was great booking, which it wasn't. The match was bad. It had too much going on. We all got what they were trying to do, but understanding what they are doing and where they are going doesn't make it a good match with great classic booking. You could accomplish their goal with so many less moving parts. That's what makes it the ending of the PPV (not just the exact finish) bad. The match wasn't compelling. It was a standard brawl with no believable near falls because they didn't actually fight long enough before the shenanigans started. Then it had 6 people interfere and then ends in a non finish. Either one of those is fine (well, maybe not SIX people, but a couple), all together its a disaster. It's WCW 2000. It's TNA. If you like that kind of thing, that's fine. But call it for what it is. You used a food analogy earlier so here's another one; don't sit there and tell us McDonalds is a 5-star restaurant. You just like McDonalds. You're trolling because we're out here saying we don't like this McDonalds we've just been served but you out here saying "well actually you guys, this is 5-star food and you just don't see it". That's being contrarian.

As for the people you listed, cool. My definition of quite a few must be different from yours because I said the overwhelming majority said the match was an overbooked convoluted mess. I took your quite a few to mean that's its not a majority, but more split. I figured you were going to show me a bunch of stuff to go against all the people complaining about it I saw on Twitter, forums, podcasts, recaps, etc. You found 3 people. Not really what I was expecting by quite a few people considering all the negative reaction to the match I saw after HiaC. That's why I said you were pulling shit out of your ass. Not that you were making it up, but you were just grasping at anything or anyone to support your position because we all know where the overwhelming majority stood. We all watched the show and had seen the reaction. But if you want to go literal with it then yes, congrats. There are some people that exist that liked it. But that's not the context of the conversation and you know it. The context was everyone here (just like other places of wrestling fans congregate) saying it was a mess and you trying to tell us why it wasn't and it was good.

 

[wildturkey]

Geez does Brie Bella suck. Last week was all the botched dives. This week she legit knocks out Liv Morgan. Kicked her right in the face probably concussing her. Liv had to be tended to during the match