Official Raw thread

[jeffro151]

As usual, HHH has to make sure he stays in the limelight.

 

[futballiscool]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that Balor's injury put them in a bind. But they have some explaining to do on that finish

 

[Duffman]

As usual, HHH has to make sure he stays in the limelight.

WM went off the air with him losing the WWE title and being gone for 6 months, not exactly staying in the limelight. And they've also been teasing HHH vs Rollins for years now so it's not like this was out of nowhere. You knew HHH would be back he didn't retire.

 

[Duffman]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that Balor's injury put them in a bind. But they have some explaining to do on that finish

Not really, he hates Reigns for beating him at WM and he probably hates Rollins because he's failed to be the guy HHH hand picked to be his successor. Plus this sets up a Rollins face turn which people have wanted forever.

 

[futballiscool]

Not really, he hates Reigns for beating him at WM and he probably hates Rollins because he's failed to be the guy HHH hand picked to be his successor. Plus this sets up a Rollins face turn which people have wanted forever.

They've done absolutely nothing to show any type of animosity between Rollins and HHH and Owens has no on air alliance with HHH
That ending made no sense, but as I mentioned earlier I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as Balor's injury forced them to reshuffle the deck on a minute's notice.

It was hotshot booking but Owens deserved the chance he was given

 

[Duffman]

They've done absolutely nothing to show any type of animosity between Rollins and HHH and Owens has no on air alliance with HHH
That ending made no sense, but as I mentioned earlier I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as Balor's injury forced them to reshuffle the deck on a minute's notice.

It was hotshot booking but Owens deserved the chance he was given

They were showing bits and pieces of animosity between HHH and Rollins here and there before he was injured during his title reign but that was forgotten when Rollins got injured.

And Owens doesn't need to have an alliance with HHH because HHH didn't do it to help KO he did it to screw Rollins and Reigns. Owens was just in the right place at the right time and that fits exactly into what his character is.

While KO obviously benefited from it he wasn't working with HHH he was just the man who was there when HHH turned on Seth Rollins.

 

[futballiscool]

So this was about subtly teased issues between HHH and Rollins from over a year ago with HHH having absolutely no involvement in anything Rollins has done since his comeback? He had no stakes in the Rollins/Balor match 2 weeks ago?

Reigns failed a drug test. Rollins injured their next golden boy in his first main roster match. They found a way to put the title on the next guy in line without actually giving him the clean win he deserved. It was an exciting end to Raw but they have a lot of loose ends of booking to tie up.

 

[wildturkey]

That was a hot finish to a great match. Quit y'alls bitching.

 

[Duffman]

So this was about subtly teased issues between HHH and Rollins from over a year ago with HHH having absolutely no involvement in anything Rollins has done since his comeback? He had no stakes in the Rollins/Balor match 2 weeks ago?

Reigns failed a drug test. Rollins injured their next golden boy in his first main roster match. They found a way to put the title on the next guy in line without actually giving him the clean win he deserved. It was an exciting end to Raw but they have a lot of loose ends of booking to tie up.

How are there loose ends? KO not winning clean by just being the guy who was on the receiving end of HHH's turn isn't a loose end, HHH not coming out before now isn't a loose end.

Explaining your actions and having loose ends aren't the same thing, the only way you can say it's a loose end is if HHH doesn't explain himself next week.

If WWE wants to go with HHH was in cahoots with KO all along then yes you could have an argument as to it making no sense since they've never shared any on screentime or him screwing Rollins tonight because of 1 thing 3 years ago then I could see where you're coming from but as of now there's no loose ends to tie up because nothing has been said at all by the man who committed these acts.

We have to wait for HHH's comments before we can jump on the "this makes no sense" train. Right now we don't know anything but that isn't the same as a loose end.

 

[futballiscool]

That was a hot finish to a great match. Quit y'alls bitching.

It actually sucked if you hate 50 yr old semi-retired wrestlers beating the top of the card and a guy who lost to Sami Zayn clean in his last singles PPV match getting the championship without getting the momentum he deserved from a clean win.

 

[wildturkey]

It actually sucked if you hate 50 yr old semi-retired wrestlers beating the top of the card and a guy who lost to Sami Zayn clean in his last singles PPV match getting the championship without getting the momentum he deserved from a clean win.

You're finding nits to pick for no reason. For one, wins and losses don't mean everything all the time. So what if Zayn beat him clean? That just gives him a reason to pick another fight with Owens if need be. Two, KO doesn't NEED a clean win. He's a heel (still at least) and he's massively over regardless. This doesn't diminish him at all. And third, how does HHH being involved hurt anything? The title isn't on him. He's not picking up wins over anyone. He hasn't even been working on a full time basis. When he has been working, its always to the benefit of other people. Both Rollins and Reigns were elevated in part by HHH being involved in a storyline with them over the last couple of years. Now KO gets that rub AND it further follows story telling logic from HHH's past with the two other men. On top of all that, it came out of nowhere. No one predicted that. Most everyone thought Rusev might screw over Reigns or some other outside interference. But this was something no one expected, popped the audience in a huge way, and leaves you wondering "why" which is the perfect hook to tune in next week. That's a solid home run for television booking for a wrestling show.

 

[futballiscool]

You're finding nits to pick for no reason. For one, wins and losses don't mean everything all the time. So what if Zayn beat him clean? That just gives him a reason to pick another fight with Owens if need be. Two, KO doesn't NEED a clean win. He's a heel (still at least) and he's massively over regardless. This doesn't diminish him at all. And third, how does HHH being involved hurt anything? The title isn't on him. He's not picking up wins over anyone. He hasn't even been working on a full time basis. When he has been working, its always to the benefit of other people. Both Rollins and Reigns were elevated in part by HHH being involved in a storyline with them over the last couple of years. Now KO gets that rub AND it further follows story telling logic from HHH's past with the two other men. On top of all that, it came out of nowhere. No one predicted that. Most everyone thought Rusev might screw over Reigns or some other outside interference. But this was something no one expected, popped the audience in a huge way, and leaves you wondering "why" which is the perfect hook to tune in next week. That's a solid home run for television booking for a wrestling show.

You can call it nitpicking or bitching but that can apply to most of what gets said on a wrestling message board... My issues..

- Owens is a weak champion. He hasn't been booked well and his title win was completely tainted. I generally hate chicken shit heel title reigns. It's not an indictment on Owens. I dont care for that style of booking
- HHH costing Roman his chance in the match was fine. It generally makes sense with the storyline. The Rollins part was completley out of left field. Why does that suck? Assuming this is his face turn this the one and only major face turn of his career and there was no storyline and no buildup. He was gloating about injuring Balor all week. He has no momentum as a face right now
- How does HHH being involved hurt things? I would have rather seen a full time wrestler score the two pin falls in the heavy weight championship match. I would have complained if this was the Rock or Undertaker too. Any full time guy would have worked.
- The idea that it "came out of nowhere" works only for tonight. It's called hotshot booking. Something unexpected that makes little sense happened so everyone popped for it.The fact that it involved Owens getting the belt means it could have been a recycled storyline from the worst episode of Nitro and the internet would have excused it. They'll need a miracle to fix all of the issues it caused. No clear cut heels. No clear cut face. A weak champ.

Can this all be fixed? Of course. I just think it's more of an uphill battle than people realize in the euphoria of the swerve ending

 

[Judge Fudge]

Honestly.

We keep thinking this was all HHH interfering in the match.

I might breed too much into this but there was a pretty intense staredown between HHH and the Raw runners

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe HHH on one side. Raw runners on another

Just throwing that out there

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Am I the only bothered that just 1 pedigree took out Rollins??? Although just 1 pedigree took out Reigns too, at least that was on the floor/concrete.

IMO all WWE would've had to do to make Owens stronger was have Rollins barely get the shoulder up after the pedigree and Owens hit a Pop Up Power Bomb for the win.

 

[jeffro151]

Am I the only bothered that just 1 pedigree took out Rollins??? Although just 1 pedigree took out Reigns too, at least that was on the floor/concrete.

IMO all WWE would've had to do to make Owens stronger was have Rollins barely get the shoulder up after the pedigree and Owens hit a Pop Up Power Bomb for the win.

Not only that, HHH kicked Rollins in the gut to put him in the pedigree, then held him down for like 8 seconds before finally giving him the pedigree. Rollins couldn't have got out of that?

 

[anotheridiot]

I switched to the show and Rollins was spewing about hurting Balor, so I just changed channels. They had planned for HHH to fight Rollins before he got hurt, that got put on the back burner. I figured HHH was staying away to make their fight have more meaning if thats what is going to happen. Seems a little early to make it a wrestlemania deal.

 

[anotheridiot]

Rollins just needs to do better. How many people has hurt in the last year or so? Sting, Cena, Balor. These were all serious injuries too.

There is a video on social media of Randy Orton taking an RKO on a bed. Its a very interesting video, because Randy cradles the kid and actually holds him up as both people are suppose to fall together to prevent the injuries this should be causing. These turnbuckle bombs just plain suck and the move he hurt himself on was this 200 pound guy trying to catch Kanes dick in his mouth and power bomb him. The moves Rollins does have no regard for the other guy. This started with the curb stomp. Thats how out of control this guy has been his entire career.

 

[wildturkey]

You can call it nitpicking or bitching but that can apply to most of what gets said on a wrestling message board... My issues..

- Owens is a weak champion. He hasn't been booked well and his title win was completely tainted. I generally hate chicken shit heel title reigns. It's not an indictment on Owens. I dont care for that style of booking
- HHH costing Roman his chance in the match was fine. It generally makes sense with the storyline. The Rollins part was completley out of left field. Why does that suck? Assuming this is his face turn this the one and only major face turn of his career and there was no storyline and no buildup. He was gloating about injuring Balor all week. He has no momentum as a face right now
- How does HHH being involved hurt things? I would have rather seen a full time wrestler score the two pin falls in the heavy weight championship match. I would have complained if this was the Rock or Undertaker too. Any full time guy would have worked.
- The idea that it "came out of nowhere" works only for tonight. It's called hotshot booking. Something unexpected that makes little sense happened so everyone popped for it.The fact that it involved Owens getting the belt means it could have been a recycled storyline from the worst episode of Nitro and the internet would have excused it. They'll need a miracle to fix all of the issues it caused. No clear cut heels. No clear cut face. A weak champ.

Can this all be fixed? Of course. I just think it's more of an uphill battle than people realize in the euphoria of the swerve ending

You could not be more wrong on this. HHH attacking Rollins completely out of left field is great and on purpose. That's the entire purpose of a swerve. It's not suppose to have build up. That's entirely the point and it worked to great effect.

 

[wildturkey]

There is a video on social media of Randy Orton taking an RKO on a bed. Its a very interesting video, because Randy cradles the kid and actually holds him up as both people are suppose to fall together to prevent the injuries this should be causing. These turnbuckle bombs just plain suck and the move he hurt himself on was this 200 pound guy trying to catch Kanes dick in his mouth and power bomb him. The moves Rollins does have no regard for the other guy. This started with the curb stomp. Thats how out of control this guy has been his entire career.

You're an idiot if you think this. The curb stomp is not real. He's not LITERALLY driving a guy's head into the ground. He's barely pushing down on the guy's head and its all on the opponent to sell the shit out of the move. Hell, half the time it looked terrible on TV because people wouldn't sell it effectively. You know why WWE stopped it? Perception. They got sued by a bunch of former wrestlers trying to seek damage from CTE and the like. Its not a good look for the company to have one of their major stars performing a move that is "intended to cause concussions to take people out". Even if its scripted, a lawyer can run to town with that kind of thing, especially if the case would some how get in front of a jury (unlikely).

 

[Duffman]

You're an idiot if you think this. The curb stomp is not real. He's not LITERALLY driving a guy's head into the ground. He's barely pushing down on the guy's head and its all on the opponent to sell the shit out of the move. Hell, half the time it looked terrible on TV because people wouldn't sell it effectively. You know why WWE stopped it? Perception. They got sued by a bunch of former wrestlers trying to seek damage from CTE and the like. Its not a good look for the company to have one of their major stars performing a move that is "intended to cause concussions to take people out". Even if its scripted, a lawyer can run to town with that kind of thing, especially if the case would some how get in front of a jury (unlikely).

Same reason you'll never see the Punt Kick from Randy Orton ever again.