Offensive problems summed up

[VTfoozball]

The OL coach recruits and teaches blocking schemes for a spread offense. The OC is unqualified, doesn't know what he's doing, and takes advice from multiple people on the staff partly to keep his job and partly because he doesn't know what he's doing. He listens to everyone especially his employer (Beamer- the only coach in college football stupid enough to put him at OC) and probably Beamers old buddy Hite and tries to run smash mouth, straight-at-you, ball control football with a more quick than strong spread offense O-line. The result is the clusterf### you see every Saturday. The only reason it's been hidden to some is because VT recently has had players like David Wilson leading the NCAA in yards after contact, Ryan Williams who was an amazing talent, and one of the most athletic QBs in college history in Tyrod. Anyone disagree or have anything to add?

 

[757Hokie83]

The OL coach recruits and teaches blocking schemes for a spread offense. The OC is unqualified, doesn't know what he's doing, and takes advice from multiple people on the staff partly to keep his job and partly because he doesn't know what he's doing. He listens to everyone especially his employer (Beamer- the only coach in college football stupid enough to put him at OC) and probably Beamers old buddy Hite and tries to run smash mouth, straight-at-you, ball control football with a more quick than strong spread offense O-line. The result is the clusterf### you see every Saturday. The only reason it's been hidden to some is because VT recently has had players like David Wilson leading the NCAA in yards after contact, Ryan Williams who was an amazing talent, and one of the most athletic QBs in college history in Tyrod. Anyone disagree or have anything to add?

i will say that he only does this because he doesnt know what he's doing...Stinespring is well aware of the fact that as long as Beamer is coaching, his job is safe

I'm not going out as far as you as to call Beamer stupid, i do not question his football intelligence, but it is obvious that the Stinespring experiment is a failure, and it needs to be addressed

 

[Hokie200proof]

Nope, that's it.

Can someone send this off to Beamer?

12-2 HERE WE COME!!!

 

[jeffro151]

I think VT should move LT to TE where he belongs and start Leal, but that's just my opinion.

 

[757Hokie83]

I think VT should move LT to TE where he belongs and start Leal, but that's just my opinion.

pssshhh...you just wish that would happen so UVA would have a chance against us

 

[robV703]

REPOST FROM CINCINATTI GAME THREAD:

Just so everyone knows where I stand on this issue, this is the type of offense I believe we should be running.

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2010/7/21/1555582/auburn-a-primer-on-the-gus-malzahn

I believe this not because I like this kind of offense (I prefer to run it down peoples throats just like Frank) but because it suits our personell, both current and who we are able to recruit. We have LT now, and Bucky and Carlis Parker in the pipeline. A offense needs to be built around the QB, and these types of QBs can excell in the spread style attack. Our lack of a dominating OL also makes this offense more feasible than a Wisconsin style attack.

Our offensive coaches aren't stupid. They know it suits our personell. We HAVE incorporated many elements of this offense, although it showed more last year than this year IMO. The problem in my view however is that Stiney isn't qualified to properly implement this type of offense and O'Cain isn't qualified to call the plays. There's a reason the article calls it the "Gus Malzahn" offense. That's because he's worked for a long time to develop and perfect it. Stiney isn't at that level. It takes a lot of time and practice to learn the ins and outs of an offense. Although Bud's defense does allow for a great deal of flexibility we don't see him shifting philosophies between series. Without a commitment to a specific offensive scheme and the coaches to teach it properly we aren't going to get the most out of our players.
_____________

So in some aspects I agree with Fooz, but I think my argument is a bit more... diplomatic.

 

[VTfoozball]

I think VT should move LT to TE where he belongs and start Leal, but that's just my opinion.

As long as LT is playing like he is, this is a better scenario. People who disagree are downplaying how bad LT has been this year and underestimate Leal's ability.

 

[VTfoozball]

Nope, that's it.

Can someone send this off to Beamer?

12-2 HERE WE COME!!!

I never said this was all of the problem but I think it's the bulk of it. And you can't overhaul the offense into the spread mid-season. You can however play to your strengths which is on the edge with speed. We'll see if they start making the meat of the offense. I kinda doubt it though based on history

 

[VTfoozball]

I meant that Beamer made a stupid decision with Stinespring

 

[VTfoozball]

REPOST FROM CINCINATTI GAME THREAD:

Just so everyone knows where I stand on this issue, this is the type of offense I believe we should be running.

Auburn: A Primer on the Gus Malzahn Offense - Shakin The Southland

I believe this not because I like this kind of offense (I prefer to run it down peoples throats just like Frank) but because it suits our personell, both current and who we are able to recruit. We have LT now, and Bucky and Carlis Parker in the pipeline. A offense needs to be built around the QB, and these types of QBs can excell in the spread style attack. Our lack of a dominating OL also makes this offense more feasible than a Wisconsin style attack.

Our offensive coaches aren't stupid. They know it suits our personell. We HAVE incorporated many elements of this offense, although it showed more last year than this year IMO. The problem in my view however is that Stiney isn't qualified to properly implement this type of offense and O'Cain isn't qualified to call the plays. There's a reason the article calls it the "Gus Malzahn" offense. That's because he's worked for a long time to develop and perfect it. Stiney isn't at that level. It takes a lot of time and practice to learn the ins and outs of an offense. Although Bud's defense does allow for a great deal of flexibility we don't see him shifting philosophies between series. Without a commitment to a specific offensive scheme and the coaches to teach it properly we aren't going to get the most out of our players.
_____________

So in some aspects I agree with Fooz, but I think my argument is a bit more... diplomatic.

I haven't read that article yet but I think the O-line and QB dictate what offense you should have more than anything. A mobile QB and O-line means spread

 

[VTfoozball]

I read the article up until it started with the technical stuff and breaking down the plays. I don't understand a lot of that terminology. But I'm wondering if a spread offense absolutely has to be uptempo? I don't think Beamer would ever go for that. Anyone can defend Stinespring all they want and cut him some slack but what I can't understand is why he and O'Cain don't seem to adjust to what's happening on the field. By now they should realize that 1) the guards and center aren't going to get a push 2) on the read option LT is going to keep it whether it's a good decision or not 3) LT is going to be inaccurate. A good OC even if he was unqualified should have the sense to take it out of the interior blockers and LT's hands and try to use the better talent on the field which I believe are the OTs, our speed backs, and the WRs on sweeps, reverses, screen passes, and slants

 

[robV703]

I read the article up until it started with the technical stuff and breaking down the plays. I don't understand a lot of that terminology. But I'm wondering if a spread offense absolutely has to be uptempo? I don't think Beamer would ever go for that. Anyone can defend Stinespring all they want and cut him some slack but what I can't understand is why he and O'Cain don't seem to adjust to what's happening on the field. By now they should realize that 1) the guards and center aren't going to get a push 2) on the read option LT is going to keep it whether it's a good decision or not 3) LT is going to be inaccurate. A good OC even if he was unqualified should have the sense to take it out of the interior blockers and LT's hands and try to use the better talent on the field which I believe are the OTs, our speed backs, and the WRs on sweeps, reverses, screen passes, and slants

A lot of the buzz this offseason was that some drives would be up tempo. In Auburn's offense that served two purposes, make it harder for the defense to adjust and get more plays in. For us the idea, since it would only be on some drives, was to confuse the defense. That clearly isn't happening. The kind of offense you seem to want is pretty much what we did last year IMO except we didn't run as many WR sweeps.

 

[hunzworth]

- Newsome is the biggest problem and has been since his arrival, his entire philosophy goes directly against Beamers. To win in college football you either have to recruit top tier (4-5*) prospects at every position or you have to be able to develop the guys that you can get, Newsom does neither.

- We are far too conservative. With the talent we have had at the skill positions we should have been no less than a top 25 offense the past several years.

- I dont mind being multiple but we need to find a base (maybe the pistol) that we can run 60-75% of our offense out of and work from there.

I want to know how much more input stiney has now that he is back in the box. O'cain had his ups and downs last year but he at least had some rthym tin his playcalling. Now i feel like we are back to being all over the place and that reeks of stinespring.

edit: id also like to know why we have been playing this BS inverted backfield on defense (maybe has to do with not having a pass covering backer?) It puts us in way to much man-on-man.

 

[Chrish1023]

I don't want to rag on Logan too much because I know he has a lot of pressure on him, but I think we should really think about Leal at QB. I don't know what got into him last year, but I'm starting to think that the second half of last season was somewhat of a fluke and what we've seen of him this year/the first half of last season is a better reflection of his real talent. His accuracy is just not good enough. Even if you look back to last year, he has always had a sub 50% completion rate. I'd almost liken this situation to BABIP (for baseball guys); if a guy has a ridiculous BABIP, he's getting lucky. Same thing with a QB who has a terrible completion percentage yet still has decent passing numbers.

Like I said, Logan has a huge weight on his shoulders and I'm sure it sucks that the whole country is mocking him for how poorly he has performed versus his projected draft spot. At the same time, though, we will never know if Leal is any good if he just rots away on the bench. And please don't make the "LT must perform better in practice" argument because there is no way in hell the coaches would start Leal early in the season after all the hype Logan got in the offseason.

 

[m477hokie]

Leal will get a year most likely, I wouldn't say he is rotting. Leal could never win the big games that Logan will be able to if he improves his accuracy. You also need to think about next year. With Logan back and another year of experience under his belt, I think he will be unstoppable. Also with DJ Coles back we will have at least one marquee receiver, with Joel Caleb and Stanford stepping up I think, not to mention the competition in the backfield.

 

[robV703]

I don't want to rag on Logan too much because I know he has a lot of pressure on him, but I think we should really think about Leal at QB. I don't know what got into him last year, but I'm starting to think that the second half of last season was somewhat of a fluke and what we've seen of him this year/the first half of last season is a better reflection of his real talent. His accuracy is just not good enough. Even if you look back to last year, he has always had a sub 50% completion rate. I'd almost liken this situation to BABIP (for baseball guys); if a guy has a ridiculous BABIP, he's getting lucky. Same thing with a QB who has a terrible completion percentage yet still has decent passing numbers.

Like I said, Logan has a huge weight on his shoulders and I'm sure it sucks that the whole country is mocking him for how poorly he has performed versus his projected draft spot. At the same time, though, we will never know if Leal is any good if he just rots away on the bench. And please don't make the "LT must perform better in practice" argument because there is no way in hell the coaches would start Leal early in the season after all the hype Logan got in the offseason.

To me he doesn't look comfortable / confident. Benching him probably wouldn't help with that. I don't know that you can realistically make the argument last year was a fluke. There has been a very clear drop off in his mechanics.

Leal will get a year most likely, I wouldn't say he is rotting. Leal could never win the big games that Logan will be able to if he improves his accuracy. You also need to think about next year. With Logan back and another year of experience under his belt, I think he will be unstoppable. Also with DJ Coles back we will have at least one marquee receiver, with Joel Caleb and Stanford stepping up I think, not to mention the competition in the backfield.

I've been really excited for next year ever since the Pitt game! We could be really good.

 

[Ragingcroc]

The main problem is the pass protection. Our interior linemen get pushed back every play. Interior pressure is the worst kind of pressure for a QB. He can't step up against outside pressure, he can't take off downfield. Its obvious it has had quite an effect on LT's accuracy. Interior pressure just fucks everything up for a QB.

 

[robV703]

The main problem is the pass protection. Our interior linemen get pushed back every play. Interior pressure is the worst kind of pressure for a QB. He can't step up against inside pressure, he can't take off downfield. Its obvious it has had quite an effect on LT's accuracy.

FIFY

And this is very true. I think I mentioned it in the Cincinatti thread. We've got to get our interior line playing better.

 

[Ragingcroc]

FIFY

And this is very true. I think I mentioned it in the Cincinatti thread. We've got to get our interior line playing better.

What I meant to say was that if your interior linemen get pushed back, you can't step up to escape from the outside pressure speed rush.

 

[robV703]

What I meant to say was that if your interior linemen get pushed back, you can't step up to escape from the outside pressure speed rush.

Oh, yeah actually the way you phrased that both inside and outside fit. Even when LT's had a pocket he hasn't stepped up. I think it's his confidence.