Nick Young signs with the Lakers...

[trojanfan12]

Your memory is good, but selective.
What I said was the Kobe had either Howard, Nash and/or Gasol for every game all season, and that IMO
should have been more then enough to secure a playoff spot ( which they eventually did, so I was wrong anyway).
The conversations were usually when you guys were trying to compare Kobe to James.

If you put James in the situation Kobe was in last year, you can bet your last dollar that it wouldn't have been near the struggle that it was.

No, that's not what you said!! Nice try though!!

And if Lebron gone through his teammates missing the number of games that Kobe's did, it would have been very close to the same struggle, especially in the west!!

If memory serves, the Lakers would have been a 5 or 6 seed in the East instead of 7th in the West!! If Lebron were on the Lakers under the same conditions, the Lakers maybe are a 5 or 6 in the West instead of 7th because of Lebron being younger and the playing time wearing on him is much (last year was the only time in his career that I've ever thought Kobe looked tired)!!

Lebron is the best player in the world, hands down, but the Lakers season would not have been remarkably different if he were in the lineup under the same circumstances!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Did Howard tell you this?

If this was the case, and he wanted to stay, then all he had to do was go to Mitch and say so. Did that happen?

News flash. Howard didn't want to play for the Lakers, with Kobe, or for any coach they may have had or didn't have.

You want us to take him for his word when he said Kobe wasnt the reason he left, but then want to discard from the same interview that he felt Houston was the perfect scenario for him when asked if he would have stayed if Phil would have been coaching.

No, but he did say that prior to the Steven A. Smith interview. He has not, however, said at any time that Kobe was the reason he left!!

You accuse me of wanting you take him at his word re: Kobe, yet at the same time want us to take YOU at YOUR word over something he's never said because it fits the scenario that you want!!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Sometimes you make for good conversation but most of the time you are just a troll. people give you facts and you ignore them and start calling people foolish because they dont agree with your closed-minded opinion.

you think championships are won on talent alone? if that were the case, boston,LA, chicago, SA, and Miami wouldnt be the only teams winning them continuously. A true student of the Game like Kobe, Timmy, Lebron, etc.. will tell you that its more mental to be a champion.

How many times do you need to hear Howard has the basketball IQ of a 16 yr old, is NOT a leader, does not offer anything on the offensive end more than he offers turnovers, horrible down the stretch because of the hack a shaq strategy, gives up during games, and does not have the killer instinct true champions possess like kobe and wade. Why cant you agree to disagree and respect some basketball fans can truly dislike his game and not want him on their favorite team?

I can accept that from some fans, although I don't remember hearing much of it until there was a great chance he was leaving. The list grew real fast after the fact.

However, you want me to accept it from CL?

Show me ONCE where until he thought he was gone where he said he didn't want him or the Lakers would be better without him.
Lets not forget, he has said numerous times that he DOESN'T want James.

While I agree with many of your points, and have stated them myself, you still can't convince me the Lakers are better off without him, and that was my only original point anyway.

 

[trojanfan12]

No, but he did say that prior to the Steven A. Smith interview. He has not, however, said at any time that Kobe was the reason he left!!

You accuse me of wanting you take him at his word re: Kobe, yet at the same time want us to take YOU at YOUR word over something he's never said because it fits the scenario that you want!!

In other words:

 

[trojanfan12]

I can accept that from some fans, although I don't remember hearing much of it until there was a great chance he was leaving. The list grew real fast after the fact.

However, you want me to accept it from CL?

Show me ONCE where until he thought he was gone where he said he didn't want him or the Lakers would be better without him.
Lets not forget, he has said numerous times that he DOESN'T want James.

While I agree with many of your points, and have stated them myself, you still can't convince me the Lakers are better off without him, and that was my only original point anyway.

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

No, but he did say that prior to the Steven A. Smith interview. He has not, however, said at any time that Kobe was the reason he left!!

You accuse me of wanting you take him at his word re: Kobe, yet at the same time want us to take YOU at YOUR word over something he's never said because it fits the scenario that you want!!

What? I saw the interview today and both questions were asked and answered.

It has nothing to do with my word or my scenario. I don't have one.

He said he didn't leave because of Kobe nor did he say he would have stayed if PJ was coaching.

He said he thought Houston was a better fit for him.

Seems to me that you are throwing your 'he would have stayed if Phil was coaching scenario' at me.

 

[trojanfan12]

What? I saw the interview today and both questions were asked and answered.

It has nothing to do with my word or my scenario. I don't have one.

He said he didn't leave because of Kobe nor did he say he would have stayed if PJ was coaching.

He said he thought Houston was a better fit for him.

Seems to me that you are throwing your 'he would have stayed if Phil was coaching scenario' at me.

Prior to the Steven A. interview he was asked about it and said that he let the Lakers know that he wanted Phil!! I will agree that he never specifically stated that he said he would stay if the Lakers hired Phil!!

However, it would be a strange thing to request a specific coach and then leave anyway!! Although, it seems that anything is possible with this guy!! After all, he got Van Gundy fired and still demanded to get out of Orlando!!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!!

Only mentioned CL because until recently, he was the only here saying he felt the Lakers are better off without him ( even though he never once said it before the fact).

You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions and beliefs.

Does anyone believe it enough to actually wager on which team (Rockets or Lakers) win more games this season?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

We are better off in a way because our fears proved to be true, it was too much for him. Nash and Kobe said they were both surprised when he expressed his displeasure in that meeting, I don't want a player who won't speak up about how he feels merely because of the reaction he might get. So we are better off but had he stepped up to the plate and took the challenge we'd be in a better position with his defense to anchor and his pull with free agents.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Personally I don't think Howard ever intended to stay with the Lakers. In my opinion he had his mind made up to test free agency out and get the best deal possible.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Prior to the Steven A. interview he was asked about it and said that he let the Lakers know that he wanted Phil!! I will agree that he never specifically stated that he said he would stay if the Lakers hired Phil!!

However, it would be a strange thing to request a specific coach and then leave anyway!! Although, it seems that anything is possible with this guy!! After all, he got Van Gundy fired and still demanded to get out of Orlando!!

But I'm stupid because you want to say and imply it??

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans

feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!!

You must have forgotten about this thread?
Where does any Laker fan (including you and CL)say they didn't want Howard back? Quite the opposite actually.
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...would-should-lakers-stick-w-mda-over-d12.html

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!![/QUOTE



05-02-2013, 09:27 PM #8 trojanfan12
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(1) Would/Should the Lakers actually allow Howard to walk if he says he simply does not want to play for Mike D'Antoni?

No!! If the choice is D'Antoni or Dwight, you pick Dwight!! I like D'Antoni, but there are a lot more coaches that are as good or better than D'Antoni, but very few players that are as good or better than Dwight!!

(2) What is this precedent Mitch is referring to? Magic ousted a coach and Dr. B covered for him. Before the Lakers selected Mike Brown, Mitch made it known that Kobe would be consulted.

Funny thing is, at least 2 of the times, it worked out pretty well. Magic wanting Westhead out and Kobe wanting Phil the second time.

(3) Is it possible that the Lakers simply aren't sold on building around Howard, that they have a take-it-or-leave-it approach with him this summer? And, again, is that a wise game of chicken?

I think they're sold!! I think that Mitch is saying what he has to say to publically show that management is in charge. Dwight obviously will want a say in who he plays for, but he doesn't want to get a rep as a "coach killer". So Mitch has to say that D'Antoni is the coach and that they won't concern themselves with who Dwight wants as coach.

If Dwight's agent quietly lets them know that he will not sign if D'Antoni is coach, then D'Antoni will be let go for the reasons that most don't think he should have been fired in the first place to keep Dwight from being blamed.






So what happened between then and now? Did suddenly more players become better then Howard?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Well first of all, Kobe did not want Phil Jackson back the second time - If you had heard him speak at Dr Jerry Buss' memorial service, then you would know that Buss had to talk Kobe into it.

Second of all - Over the years Lakers management and the organization has been criticized for decades over the Magic Johnson getting the coach fired, so I can see why they don't want to go there, but given the choice I would choose Howard over D'antoni.

That, however was not the main reason Howard left. Howard wants to be in charge and wanted Kobe to retire and give him the team and Howard didn't like being told he can't laugh and joke when playing the game. He didn't like the serious attitude of Kobe and he also saw what every one else saw. A team getting older and older. Next year that might be different but clearly Howard and Hardin is going to be a nice young combo that will win games and and have fun winning games. It is a better fit for Howard even though Houston won't win any championships in the near future

 

[jayviabay]

Only mentioned CL because until recently, he was the only here saying he felt the Lakers are better off without him ( even though he never once said it before the fact).

You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions and beliefs.

Does anyone believe it enough to actually wager on which team (Rockets or Lakers) win more games this season?

If you really think about your question/statement, i think you would realize the Lakers are better off without Howard.

There's no guarantee Dantoni will get fired 6 games into the regular season.
He doesnt have the skill set for the system and Dantoni doesnt even want him in his system.
I think thats why they talk about Gasol being the perfect fit for it. When nash comes off of the pick and the defense collapse, Pau can hit a 15-18 ft jumper. The system will definitely have different floor spacing this year. From a defensive stand point, of course we are not better off.

Lets wait until pre season and I can get a look at what they are trying to actually do and we can entertain a wager...

 

[Black Adam]

I can accept that from some fans, although I don't remember hearing much of it until there was a great chance he was leaving. The list grew real fast after the fact.

However, you want me to accept it from CL?

Show me ONCE where until he thought he was gone where he said he didn't want him or the Lakers would be better without him.
Lets not forget, he has said numerous times that he DOESN'T want James.

While I agree with many of your points, and have stated them myself, you still can't convince me the Lakers are better off without him, and that was my only original point anyway.

wow, clearly SOMEBODY has CL on the brain...AGAIN...

show me once where i gave you an opinion of me saying he'll stay. too damn funny. you keep trying to shoot holes in MY credibility, and continue to set a torch to your own. gotta love it from the short troll...


and btw, i STILL DON'T WANT JAMES. i'll gladly say it again. i don't know which is funnier, you seemingly NOT being able to accept that, or you thinking somehow it makes me crazy. you don't NEED James to win. sorry, but didn't we see a team almost win one WITHOUT James? pull your head out, Turnip. the guy's NOT a god. sheesh...

 

[Black Adam]

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!![/QUOTE



05-02-2013, 09:27 PM #8 trojanfan12
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(1) Would/Should the Lakers actually allow Howard to walk if he says he simply does not want to play for Mike D'Antoni?

No!! If the choice is D'Antoni or Dwight, you pick Dwight!! I like D'Antoni, but there are a lot more coaches that are as good or better than D'Antoni, but very few players that are as good or better than Dwight!!

(2) What is this precedent Mitch is referring to? Magic ousted a coach and Dr. B covered for him. Before the Lakers selected Mike Brown, Mitch made it known that Kobe would be consulted.

Funny thing is, at least 2 of the times, it worked out pretty well. Magic wanting Westhead out and Kobe wanting Phil the second time.

(3) Is it possible that the Lakers simply aren't sold on building around Howard, that they have a take-it-or-leave-it approach with him this summer? And, again, is that a wise game of chicken?

I think they're sold!! I think that Mitch is saying what he has to say to publically show that management is in charge. Dwight obviously will want a say in who he plays for, but he doesn't want to get a rep as a "coach killer". So Mitch has to say that D'Antoni is the coach and that they won't concern themselves with who Dwight wants as coach.

If Dwight's agent quietly lets them know that he will not sign if D'Antoni is coach, then D'Antoni will be let go for the reasons that most don't think he should have been fired in the first place to keep Dwight from being blamed.






So what happened between then and now? Did suddenly more players become better then Howard?

wow, morning to ya, ol' sock...

CL is just a long time fan...who knows good from bad....humility from arrogance...right from wrong...and seems to own your every thought...


let's see this ignorant punk write one post that DOESN'T have CL written in it...course he MIGHT need another i.d. to pull it off...

 

[trojanfan12]

What the hell does what CL says have to do with any other Laker fans feeling re: Dwight or Lebron!! Laker fans, for the most part, were willing to give Dwight a shot despite all of the "Dwightmare" stuff!!

We all got to see first hand, what he's about and it isn't championships!!

If Dwight ever wins a championship, it will be because he played Robin or hell, maybe Batgirl, to someone else's Batman!! In short, he'll be Chris Bosh!![/QUOTE



05-02-2013, 09:27 PM #8 trojanfan12
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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(1) Would/Should the Lakers actually allow Howard to walk if he says he simply does not want to play for Mike D'Antoni?

No!! If the choice is D'Antoni or Dwight, you pick Dwight!! I like D'Antoni, but there are a lot more coaches that are as good or better than D'Antoni, but very few players that are as good or better than Dwight!!

(2) What is this precedent Mitch is referring to? Magic ousted a coach and Dr. B covered for him. Before the Lakers selected Mike Brown, Mitch made it known that Kobe would be consulted.

Funny thing is, at least 2 of the times, it worked out pretty well. Magic wanting Westhead out and Kobe wanting Phil the second time.

(3) Is it possible that the Lakers simply aren't sold on building around Howard, that they have a take-it-or-leave-it approach with him this summer? And, again, is that a wise game of chicken?

I think they're sold!! I think that Mitch is saying what he has to say to publically show that management is in charge. Dwight obviously will want a say in who he plays for, but he doesn't want to get a rep as a "coach killer". So Mitch has to say that D'Antoni is the coach and that they won't concern themselves with who Dwight wants as coach.

If Dwight's agent quietly lets them know that he will not sign if D'Antoni is coach, then D'Antoni will be let go for the reasons that most don't think he should have been fired in the first place to keep Dwight from being blamed.






So what happened between then and now? Did suddenly more players become better then Howard?

I'd say that I explained EXACTLY what happened pretty clearly in the top bolded section!! Sorry you missed it, even though you quoted it!!

Dwight, for all of his talent, has done absolutely nothing to show that he is capable of actually leading a team to a championship!!

Dwight wants to be "the man". If you are "the man" on the Lakers, championships are the expected result, Dwight has not shown that he is capable of living up to that expectation!! As a Laker fan, I was hoping (as were others) that he would come in and embrace those expectations!! Sadly, he didn't!!

So, did other players suddenly become better? From a talent standpoint....No!! From a maturity/ability to lead standpoint......Yes!!

As I said, if Dwight ever wins a champion, he will be because he played a Chris Bosh role, not a Lebron or Kobe role!!

 

[trojanfan12]

But I'm stupid because you want to say and imply it??

No!! You're stupid because you can't follow any points (as you proved yet again in the post that I responded to prior to this one) and because you want to believe that Kobe is the reason Dwight left even though he not only never said Kobe was the reason, but even went so far as to specifically say that playing with Kobe had no part in his decision.

At least, in what I said, he did specifically state that he wanted Phil!! It's much more logical to believe that D'Antoni was why he left rather than Kobe since he did specifically say that he wanted a different coach!!

That's why your stupid!! Well, that and the fact that the above actually had to be explained to you!!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'd say that I explained EXACTLY what happened pretty clearly in the top bolded section!! Sorry you missed it, even though you quoted it!!

Dwight, for all of his talent, has done absolutely nothing to show that he is capable of actually leading a team to a championship!!

Dwight wants to be "the man". If you are "the man" on the Lakers, championships are the expected result, Dwight has not shown that he is capable of living up to that expectation!! As a Laker fan, I was hoping (as were others) that he would come in and embrace those expectations!! Sadly, he didn't!!

So, did other players suddenly become better? From a talent standpoint....No!! From a maturity/ability to lead standpoint......Yes!!


As I said, if Dwight ever wins a champion, he will be because he played a Chris Bosh role, not a Lebron or Kobe role!!

Both you and CL are skirting around the issue and what we are talking about and that is that neither of you stated that you didn't want him back until after it was pretty obvious he wasn't coming back.