NFC West

[Crimsoncrew]

Our 2011 Receiver corps was better than the 2011 Panthers' receiving corps. That's not even debatable IMO. However, I do think that Alex can make the probowl in 2012 without raising any eyebrows (indicator as if he didn't deserve the honor) about the issue.

It's definitely debatable.

Steve Smith is head and shoulders above any WR we had last year. They were somewhat thin after that, but Naane and LaFell are solid players - granted neither is really a starting caliber player at present. After Crabtree, we had jack and shit at WR, and Crabtree is a ways behind Smith. Even bringing in TE, Olsen and Shockey made for a pretty good tandem.

I think this debate could very easily go either way, and I might lean toward Carolina, frankly. Especially if we factor in the RBs, given Gore's awful regular season.

 

[MHSL82]

It's definitely debatable.

Steve Smith is head and shoulders above any WR we had last year. They were somewhat thin after that, but Naane and LaFell are solid players - granted neither is really a starting caliber player at present. After Crabtree, we had jack and shit at WR, and Crabtree is a ways behind Smith. Even bringing in TE, Olsen and Shockey made for a pretty good tandem.

I think this debate could very easily go either way, and I might lean toward Carolina, frankly. Especially if we factor in the RBs, given Gore's awful regular season.

Before someone misinterprets you, I'd like to clarify that you were talking about Gore as a receiver, not a rusher. (I don't think I misinterpretted you myself, did I?)

 

[Bemular]

It's definitely debatable.

Steve Smith is head and shoulders above any WR we had last year. They were somewhat thin after that, but Naane and LaFell are solid players - granted neither is really a starting caliber player at present. After Crabtree, we had jack and shit at WR, and Crabtree is a ways behind Smith. Even bringing in TE, Olsen and Shockey made for a pretty good tandem.

I think this debate could very easily go either way, and I might lean toward Carolina, frankly. Especially if we factor in the RBs, given Gore's awful regular season.

I agree. I can see support for a debate that could go either way, but I would give the edge to Carolina as well. I further agree with your Gore sentiments - what was up with all the drops??

 

[BINGO]

It's definitely debatable.

Steve Smith is head and shoulders above any WR we had last year. They were somewhat thin after that, but Naane and LaFell are solid players - granted neither is really a starting caliber player at present. After Crabtree, we had jack and shit at WR, and Crabtree is a ways behind Smith. Even bringing in TE, Olsen and Shockey made for a pretty good tandem.

I think this debate could very easily go either way, and I might lean toward Carolina, frankly. Especially if we factor in the RBs, given Gore's awful regular season.

I would take a combination of Crabtree/Davis/Walker/Williams/Ginn/Braylon Edwards OVER Smith/Naane/LaFell/Shockey/Olsen/Armanti Edwards

Olsen and Shockey were always injured. In paper the duo looks good, but in reality they were very inconsitent in 2011. Are you serious in bringing Naane and LaFell to this conversation as being legitimate firepower for any QB. Newton's abilities as a dual threat QB benefited their offense greatly bud. And I wouldn't trade any of their RBs for Gore. That's an abomination!!

 

[BINGO]

Before someone misinterprets you, I'd like to clarify that you were talking about Gore as a receiver, not a rusher. (I don't think I misinterpretted you myself, did I?)

He meant it as a rusher. A "Running" back... Even in the passing game, one cannot take Gore out of the game because he is by far THE BEST pass blocking running in the entire NFL. Again it's BLASPHEMY to consider either Williams or Stewart being better than Gore, thus causing Cam to have a better comfort level with their teams respective passing offense.

 

[BINGO]

I agree. I can see support for a debate that could go either way, but I would give the edge to Carolina as well. I further agree with your Gore sentiments - what was up with all the drops??

You guys are :loco:

 

[Bemular]

You guys are :loco:

I shall not debate you on the grounds that I might lose -

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Before someone misinterprets you, I'd like to clarify that you were talking about Gore as a receiver, not a rusher. (I don't think I misinterpretted you myself, did I?)

Yes, I'm talking specifically about receiving. Gore couldnt' hold onto the ball to save his life this season, seemed like. He was much more effective in the postseason, so hopefully he keeps that up.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I would take a combination of Crabtree/Davis/Walker/Williams/Ginn/Braylon Edwards OVER Smith/Naane/LaFell/Shockey/Olsen/Armanti Edwards

Olsen and Shockey were always injured. In paper the duo looks good, but in reality they were very inconsitent in 2011. Are you serious in bringing Naane and LaFell to this conversation as being legitimate firepower for any QB. Newton's abilities as a dual threat QB benefited their offense greatly bud. And I wouldn't trade any of their RBs for Gore. That's an abomination!!

I think it's a close call. Both teams were weak at the receiving position. Carolina at least had Steve Smith, an elite threat. You scoff at Naane and LaFell, but what did the Niners have to counter those guys? The Niners had Davis, who was really only ok until he hit his stride late, Crabtree, who had a rough start before he started to look alright as a possession guy, and not much else. Morgan had some nice moments, but was injured early. Williams flashed but never hit a stride. Ginn popped up every once in awhile, but certainly wasn't a presence of any kind.

I didn't watch a whole lot of Panthers games, but Olsen was on my fantasy team for quite awhile last year so I was monitoring him and Shockey. Combined, they put up solid numbers every week. And as receivers this last season, Stewart and Williams were more effective than Gore and Hunter.

There's no doubt Cam Newton revitalized that offense. But Steve Smith alone might give them the edge over the Niners.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

He meant it as a rusher. A "Running" back... Even in the passing game, one cannot take Gore out of the game because he is by far THE BEST pass blocking running in the entire NFL. Again it's BLASPHEMY to consider either Williams or Stewart being better than Gore, thus causing Cam to have a better comfort level with their teams respective passing offense.

No, I meant it in the receiving game. RB is the position. The discussion was what relative weapons the QBs had in the passing game. Gore had something like 8 or 9 drops on easy balls. Meanwhile, Stewart was very effective as a receiver. In every other season, Gore has been a very good receiver. This year something seemed off.

 

[threelittleturds]

I don't know man, the Panthers had Steve Smith... a guy who has had six 1000 yard seasons and in 2007 he did it with four starting QBs. I think we've been dreaming of having a WR that good since Owens left, because we know first hand that a guy like that makes the entire group better. Which is why we had high hopes for Bryant, Edwards, and now Moss.

 

[BINGO]

I think it's a close call. Both teams were weak at the receiving position. Carolina at least had Steve Smith, an elite threat. You scoff at Naane and LaFell, but what did the Niners have to counter those guys? The Niners had Davis, who was really only ok until he hit his stride late, Crabtree, who had a rough start before he started to look alright as a possession guy, and not much else. Morgan had some nice moments, but was injured early. Williams flashed but never hit a stride. Ginn popped up every once in awhile, but certainly wasn't a presence of any kind.

I didn't watch a whole lot of Panthers games, but Olsen was on my fantasy team for quite awhile last year so I was monitoring him and Shockey. Combined, they put up solid numbers every week. And as receivers this last season, Stewart and Williams were more effective than Gore and Hunter.

There's no doubt Cam Newton revitalized that offense. But Steve Smith alone might give them the edge over the Niners.

Thus WE rest OUR case here! KC Joyner, though I enjoy reading his work at times (whether or I agree on his so called metrics) make a horrible comment by saying he would have selected Smith ahead of Cam for the probowl in 2011. This is what this debate is all about. That was a Cohnesque type comment there KC.

And I stand by my assessment that 9ers receivers were better than Carolinas. Cam made his receivers (LaFell and Naane in particular) look better than they're actually are. Bar None!!

 

[BINGO]

I don't know man, the Panthers had Steve Smith... a guy who has had six 1000 yard seasons and in 2007 he did it with four starting QBs. I think we've been dreaming of having a WR that good since Owens left, because we know first hand that a guy like that makes the entire group better. Which is why we had high hopes for Bryant, Edwards, and now Moss.

Tres,

Last time Steve Smith had a 1k season prior to last year was in 2008. Do you know why that is? You don't think it had nothing to do with the person throwing him the ball? Legedu Naanee played with an elite QB in Phillip Rivers (a potent pass friendly offense) for four seasons. His best yearly stats within those 4 seasons were 23 catches for 371yards. With one season with Cam (rookie QB) he posted career highs in 44 catches 467 yards. Not saying Cam is better than Rivers, but I'm saying that this is the type of player (receiver) he had to work with as one of his starting receivers. It's just ridiculous to say that Cam had better talent then Alex Smith. Simply absurd!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Tres,

Last time Steve Smith had a 1k season prior to last year was in 2008. Do you know why that is? You don't think it had nothing to do with the person throwing him the ball? Legedu Naanee played with an elite QB in Phillip Rivers (a potent pass friendly offense) for four seasons. His best yearly stats within those 4 seasons were 23 catches for 371yards. With one season with Cam (rookie QB) he posted career highs in 44 catches 467 yards. Not saying Cam is better than Rivers, but I'm saying that this is the type of player (receiver) he had to work with as one of his starting receivers. It's just ridiculous to say that Cam had better talent then Alex Smith. Simply absurd!

There's no doubt that poor play at QB hindered Steve Smith. But his QB play those two years was among the worst in the league. There's no disputing that he is an incredibly talented player, better than anyone Alex had in the passing game this past year.

As for as Naanee, two thoughts. First, Naanee's numbers in SD vs. Car are at least in part a reflection of opportunity. In SD, he spent much of his career behind Jackson and Floyd, though he was beaten out by Crayton in 2010. Thrust into a starting role, he performed about as one would expect. Naanee and LaFell aren't great, but they've got good size and are good complements to Smith.

Second, we're making a comparison here. And Alex didn't really have a #2 WR at all. Naanee had put up far greater numbers than, say, Kyle Williams. LaFell may not be great, but to date he's undoubtedly been more effective than Williams. You can claim that's because of the QB, but even in 2010 LaFell put up decent rookie numbers that surpass Williams' career numbers. So you're basically comparing Naanee and LaFell to the black hole that was our #2 receiver spot. The Panthers win HANDILY at both WR spots IMO.

 

[MHSL82]

Tres,

Last time Steve Smith had a 1k season prior to last year was in 2008. Do you know why that is? You don't think it had nothing to do with the person throwing him the ball? Legedu Naanee played with an elite QB in Phillip Rivers (a potent pass friendly offense) for four seasons. His best yearly stats within those 4 seasons were 23 catches for 371yards. With one season with Cam (rookie QB) he posted career highs in 44 catches 467 yards. Not saying Cam is better than Rivers, but I'm saying that this is the type of player (receiver) he had to work with as one of his starting receivers. It's just ridiculous to say that Cam had better talent then Alex Smith. Simply absurd!

982 for all intents and purposes is 1K, but I see your point. I just don't like when people cite Alex's 300 games, ignoring those with 297 or 290, etc.

 

[Bemular]

982 for all intents and purposes is 1K, but I see your point. I just don't like when people cite Alex's 300 games, ignoring those with 297 or 290, etc.

That seems like a rather slippery idea - I think for 300 & 1000 yard game discussions we should just draw the line at, well, 300 & 1000 - But I could be wrong.

 

[MHSL82]

That seems like a rather slippery idea - I think for 300 & 1000 yard game discussions we should just draw the line at, well, 300 & 1000 - But I could be wrong.

If you're doing an analysis, yes. Comparing QBs, we have to draw the line. But when people are trying to say how bad Smith is based upon his 300 yard games (when some came within 10 of that magical number) or that Steve Smith was inneffective in 2009 because he was 18 yards short of an effective number, it means less to me. I would rather say that Smith has only had 5 games around 300 rather than "only twice!" Neither are that great, but I don't think it gives him too much credit when a few yards short don't make much difference in the large sense. Individual games, if we lose by 8 or less, than a few more yards could have changed the game. I think the 5 games is more reflective of his career and I would say this about anyone. He's still in the bottom tier either way. If he had 42 games at 297 and only 2 over 300, then I'd feel I was stretching it to say 45 games. If I considered 285 to be close, I'd be stretching it.

I guess what I'm saying, number of real 300 goes to consistency, not ability. I also won't expand what is "close" to 300, either. 3 yards? 7 yards? Really? Not a point of criticism. 5 games close in 68 starts? Yes.

 

[Bemular]

If you're doing an analysis, yes. Comparing QBs, we have to draw the line. But when people are trying to say how bad Smith is based upon his 300 yard games (when some came within 10 of that magical number) or that Steve Smith was inneffective in 2009 because he was 18 yards short of an effective number, it means less to me. I would rather say that Smith has only had 5 games around 300 rather than "only twice!" Neither are that great, but I don't think it gives him too much credit when a few yards short don't make much difference in the large sense. Individual games, if we lose by 8 or less, than a few more yards could have changed the game. I think the 5 games is more reflective of his career and I would say this about anyone. He's still in the bottom tier either way. If he had 42 games at 297 and only 2 over 300, then I'd feel I was stretching it to say 45 games. If I considered 285 to be close, I'd be stretching it.

I guess what I'm saying, number of real 300 goes to consistency, not ability. I also won't expand what is "close" to 300, either. 3 yards? 7 yards? Really? Not a point of criticism. 5 games close in 68 starts? Yes.

That just seems silly to me - it is what it is so just say what it is.

 

[threelittleturds]

Tres,

Last time Steve Smith had a 1k season prior to last year was in 2008. Do you know why that is? You don't think it had nothing to do with the person throwing him the ball? Legedu Naanee played with an elite QB in Phillip Rivers (a potent pass friendly offense) for four seasons. His best yearly stats within those 4 seasons were 23 catches for 371yards. With one season with Cam (rookie QB) he posted career highs in 44 catches 467 yards. Not saying Cam is better than Rivers, but I'm saying that this is the type of player (receiver) he had to work with as one of his starting receivers. It's just ridiculous to say that Cam had better talent then Alex Smith. Simply absurd!

Yeah, I'm not saying Steve Smith is a Megatron type, his production sucked in 2010 because of Clausen. It certainly isn't a coincidence that his 2nd best season came with Cam Newton throwing him the ball. In my opinion, Steve Smith is better than any WR the 49ers had a year ago, and to me that makes the whole group better. The attention he draws makes it easier for the rest of the WRs to succeed who aren't that good. Think of how the only time JJ Stokes was decent, it was because Owens and Rice drew all of the attention and he was often left on weaker CBs.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cam has shown that he could go to any team in the league and produce. While Alex has shown that he needs to be carried by the team, so Smith needs "perfect situations" to produce. I just can't say Crabtree, Williams, and Ginn. Are better than the Panthers WR corps. That is 72, 20, and 19 catches respectively for those three. In their limited time, Morgan and Edwards added 15 a piece... that was just a sorry group of WRs.

Unless you're including TEs, which is fair to do in today's NFL. In that case, the 49ers do have a better receiving corps. Cause I agree with you about the Panthers TEs looking better on paper than they actually are.

Oh, and if Morgan and Edwards would have stayed healthy, I'd totally agree that even the WR corps was better not including TEs. But in my opinion, those injuries made the 49ers WR corps pretty weak when they had to trot out Williams, Ginn and Swain.

 

[BINGO]

Yeah, In my opinion, Steve Smith is better than any WR the 49ers had a year ago, and to me that makes the whole group better. The attention he draws makes it easier for the rest of the WRs to succeed who aren't that good. Think of how the only time JJ Stokes was decent, it was because Owens and Rice drew all of the attention and he was often left on weaker CBs.

Yeah, In my opinion, as an elite weapon Vernon Davis is better than any TEs the Panthers had a year ago, and to me that makes the whole group better (receiving crop). The attention he draws makes it easier for the rest of the WRs to succeed who aren't that good. Think of how the only time Qadry Ismail and Brandon Stokely were decent (2000 Ravens), it was because Shannon Sharpe drew all of the attention and he was often drew coverage to him solely putting the WRs in constent one-on-one situations. In the NFL receivers are mandated to win one-on-one battles. Our #2 receivers were open constantly but Smith in 2010 failed to capitalize. Afraid to make mistakes. He's not better better Cam nor did he (Cam) have better weapons did he did. Simply put, Smith failed Davis during the regular season as opposed to Davis failing Smith as Crimson tried to paint it out to be.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cam has shown that he could go to any team in the league and produce. While Alex has shown that he needs to be carried by the team, so Smith needs "perfect situations" to produce.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kyle Williams is the main reason why we lost the super bowl in 2011 (for lack of better words though it was the NFC Championship game) - But Alex Smith was also a key reason as to why we didn't advance...While Eli was being hammered by Justin Smith and company, he kept his composure and was willing to make tough throws when needed. He took calculated risk unlike Smith who only took a shot with Delanie Walker as time expired sending us to overtime. Smith was not throwing the receivers open, unlike Eli. I mean, our coners were playing good enough for us to win (prior to Brown's injury) - however, tough they were sticking with their man, Eli was throwing the receivers open. Smith on the other hand, didn't throw the ball in certain (hot spots) because he perceived his receivers as being covered. That's not a "pro bowl" mentality.

I just can't say Crabtree, Williams, and Ginn. Are better than the Panthers WR corps. That is 72, 20, and 19 catches respectively for those three. In their limited time, Morgan and Edwards added 15 a piece... that was just a sorry group of WRs.

I swear to you, it's not the receivers. Your issue there is with the QB. Not the recievers. It's like saying that Deymarius Thomas, Eric Decker, and Eddie Royal are bums because of their 2011 stats. Watch how all 3 of these players produce in 2012 with their new respective bbf (QBs). C'mon bro, I know you can see the underlying issue here like I can - you're just being bias and not realizing it.