NFC East thoughts

[Warpath]

well maybe I am not explaining what I am trying to say right. but no matter what the move the Rams did was a sound one for their needs. No way that move was a bad move. If they screw up all their picks they got from the Skins that is on them, but the move itself was a good one for them. So to go along the lines you drew. lets look at this. If the rams screw up all those picks & get no where with them & don't improve their team. Then taking RGIII & not having those picks & screwing up with worse picks would mean RGIII wouldn't have helped them anyways. There is no way any rational fan (don't know if rams fans are rational or not) would say that was a bad move by the Rams. Now ram fans could say they should have drafted any # of players with those picks they were screwing up (if that is what happens) but they should never say they shouldn't have made the trade with the skins. that trade was gold for that team. if the rams fans were to play the woulda/coulda/shoulda game with trades or draft picks, it should be with what they did after the skins/Rams trade. Like I said there is no way that move was a bad move for them.

Now to be honest when I 1st heard of this trade I was one of those guys laughing at the skins thinking they just got raped by the Rams. but RGIII surprised me by being an intelligent QB & accurate. Two things I really wasn't expecting. So honestly if he ends playing to his potential it will have been a good move by the skins as well. but there is no question it was a good move by the rams. No matter what.

No, I get what you're saying, and understood you from the start. That the value for moving around the draft picks is there for the Rams. And I'd agree with that if you just want to look at the draft picks on face value and leave it there. They got a lot.

But where we disagree is where the judgement of the draft stops and how the trade will be thought of 10 years from now. Perception will change based on the success or failures of both teams and ultimately the play of their QBs. If the Redskins struggle and RG3 doesn't pan out, of course the Redskins will be mocked for that. All I'm saying is that if Bradford continues to be mediocre and the Rams struggle or are middle of the road, and RG3 happens to be a top tier QB with a team regularly in the playoffs, there's no way fans of the Rams and the media won't say "what if".

Comparing the two QBs as of now, Bradford has struggled. But RG3 turned a bad team around in his rookie season. Breaking records and getting his team to the playoffs. Based on that, he might have been able to do the same for the Rams.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

No, I get what you're saying, and understood you from the start. That the value for moving around the draft picks is there for the Rams. And I'd agree with that if you just want to look at the draft picks on face value and leave it there. They got a lot.

But where we disagree is where the judgement of the draft stops and how the trade will be thought of 10 years from now. Perception will change based on the success or failures of both teams and ultimately the play of their QBs. If the Redskins struggle and RG3 doesn't pan out, of course the Redskins will be mocked for that. All I'm saying is that if Bradford continues to be mediocre and the Rams struggle or are middle of the road, and RG3 happens to be a top tier QB with a team regularly in the playoffs, there's no way fans of the Rams and the media won't say "what if".

Comparing the two QBs as of now, Bradford has struggled. But RG3 turned a bad team around in his rookie season. Breaking records and getting his team to the playoffs. Based on that, he might have been able to do the same for the Rams.

I see what your saying. I just don't look at it that way. Honestly the rams could improve & get better & RGIII could become a HOF type QB & the media will still say what if the rams didn't trade him away. The media aren't paid to be realistic.
Also I disagree that the Skins were a bad team. I just thought they had shit at the QB position which happens to be one of the most important positions to not have shit at. Now the Rams sucked as an NFL football team as a whole. I don't think you could say they were strong at a single position (maybe a special teamer)
See I look at it as the Rams traded one quality draft pick to gain several quality draft picks, for a team that needs many many ahh what the heck throw in one more Many holes to fill that one quality draft pick doesn't fix. So the "move" was a smart move by them. It was the right move for them. Now if they screw up after this, then those decisions should be questioned. not the one move that was the right move. yes you are right some fans that don't think things through will surely say they should have taken RGIII & ignore all the horrible picks that the Rams would have had to have made since then, but still doesn't change the fact it was the right move.
The skins I look at it was they traded all those picks for a player (even though technically it was a draft pick) so just like any trade for a player your (the skins) move will be judged on the success of that player. On if your move was a good one or not.
So I get your view point, but I know I am not changing my view point since I feel I am using pure logic & not the what if scale. As the media or unhappy fans may do.

So we will have to agree to disagree on our view points on this one. Don't see either of us changing our minds.

(BTW there was no way it was a bad move by the rams)

 

[Sharkinva]

I see what your saying. I just don't look at it that way. Honestly the rams could improve & get better & RGIII could become a HOF type QB & the media will still say what if the rams didn't trade him away. The media aren't paid to be realistic.
Also I disagree that the Skins were a bad team. I just thought they had shit at the QB position which happens to be one of the most important positions to not have shit at. Now the Rams sucked as an NFL football team as a whole. I don't think you could say they were strong at a single position (maybe a special teamer)
See I look at it as the Rams traded one quality draft pick to gain several quality draft picks, for a team that needs many many ahh what the heck throw in one more Many holes to fill that one quality draft pick doesn't fix. So the "move" was a smart move by them. It was the right move for them. Now if they screw up after this, then those decisions should be questioned. not the one move that was the right move. yes you are right some fans that don't think things through will surely say they should have taken RGIII & ignore all the horrible picks that the Rams would have had to have made since then, but still doesn't change the fact it was the right move.
The skins I look at it was they traded all those picks for a player (even though technically it was a draft pick) so just like any trade for a player your (the skins) move will be judged on the success of that player. On if your move was a good one or not.
So I get your view point, but I know I am not changing my view point since I feel I am using pure logic & not the what if scale. As the media or unhappy fans may do.

So we will have to agree to disagree on our view points on this one. Don't see either of us changing our minds.

(BTW there was no way it was a bad move by the rams)

Schmoop... not to get too much in the middle of this. But whats the worth of a franchise QB?? Forget the extra picks the rams got out of the trade. In reality they got two firsts and a second for RG3. Name me a team not named New England, New York (giants, not Jets), New Orleans, Green Bay, Indy, Denver or yes Dallas that right now would not give up two 1st and a 2nd for what is precieved by most as a franchise QB?? I can throw the rams in there because they have Bradford. And Maybe Miami because I think tannehill if given time will be very good for the Phins.

But I guess a better way of looking at it is, if Romo were 23 and you knew what he was capable of, you think any team would hesitate to give up two 1st and a 2nd for him?? Because in the end, that is all the Skins really gave up to get Griffin since the 3rd #1 that every one will undoubtedly call me on was a swap of draft picks.

Long and short, if you dont have a franchise QB, what is one worth??

 

[Warpath]

Schmoop, either way, thank you for the thoughtful and respectful conversation. We can definitely agree to disagree. But I do think drafts are judged twice. Once as they happen and then again years down the road... the more realistic judgement when those players are in the NFL and producing. To me that's obviously the better way to judge a draft because it's based on what's real rather than projections, hopes and dreams. And I don't think trades made in the draft are excluded from that.

 

[Manster7588]

Schmoop... not to get too much in the middle of this. But whats the worth of a franchise QB?? Forget the extra picks the rams got out of the trade. In reality they got two firsts and a second for RG3. Name me a team not named New England, New York (giants, not Jets), New Orleans, Green Bay, Indy, Denver or yes Dallas that right now would not give up two 1st and a 2nd for what is precieved by most as a franchise QB?? I can throw the rams in there because they have Bradford. And Maybe Miami because I think tannehill if given time will be very good for the Phins.

But I guess a better way of looking at it is, if Romo were 23 and you knew what he was capable of, you think any team would hesitate to give up two 1st and a 2nd for him?? Because in the end, that is all the Skins really gave up to get Griffin since the 3rd #1 that every one will undoubtedly call me on was a swap of draft picks.

Long and short, if you dont have a franchise QB, what is one worth??

I'd add Atlanta, Detroit, or Baltimore. I also don't think Cincy, Carolina, and SF would have made that trade. My biggest concern if I were a Skins fan are the knees. I have no doubt RGIII can lead the team to wins but I have concerns that he will have a long career. If he gets the Skins to the playoffs for 3 straight years then his knees give out how far back are you set. You'd have a team with no 1st's for 2 years and no QB.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Schmoop... not to get too much in the middle of this. But whats the worth of a franchise QB?? Forget the extra picks the rams got out of the trade. In reality they got two firsts and a second for RG3. Name me a team not named New England, New York (giants, not Jets), New Orleans, Green Bay, Indy, Denver or yes Dallas that right now would not give up two 1st and a 2nd for what is precieved by most as a franchise QB?? I can throw the rams in there because they have Bradford. And Maybe Miami because I think tannehill if given time will be very good for the Phins.

But I guess a better way of looking at it is, if Romo were 23 and you knew what he was capable of, you think any team would hesitate to give up two 1st and a 2nd for him?? Because in the end, that is all the Skins really gave up to get Griffin since the 3rd #1 that every one will undoubtedly call me on was a swap of draft picks.

Long and short, if you dont have a franchise QB, what is one worth??

depends on the quality of the team. If the team sucks everywhere. yes that franchise QB will elevate the team from horribly sucking to sucking, maybe even as high as below average. Until that QB get killed. So do I think RGIII would have done for the rams as he did for the skins. No. I am also still on a wait & see with RGIII. They were labeling Cam Newton Superman, next big thing blah blah blah. then he hit the 2nd year blues. Now I have been impressed with RGIII & don't think he will hit the 2nd year blues, but I will hold off the great button for now. Who knows. If RGIII goes to the rams maybe he doesn't become the player he is right now. Maybe his confidence gets killed. Maybe his QB coaches don't help as much as the skinsQB coaches do. I mean if the what if game is to be played one way maybe you look at the what if game from all angles. I honestly don't think Bradford is a bad QB he is just on a crappy team. if you looked at the rams before the draft, the QB spot would have been the one you least questioned on that team. So again the move they made was sound.
Dan Marino I am pretty sure all of us from any teams fanbase would say was a franchise QB. But he couldn't get his team a superbowl victory on his own. I believe you still have to build a core of a team for a franchise QB to do any good. yeah I would agree it would make your team better, but to a team that has so many needs. think you would take the draft picks (or players) A solid team can win a superbowl without a Franchise QB. A team with a Franchise Qb but not a solid team cannot win a superbowl. name of the game is win a superbowl. here is one more what if. What if in the next couple drafts the Rams use one of those picks to get their own franchise QB. Even if not as good as RGIII, now they have a franchise QB & extra quality draft picks on a team that needs those extra picks. What if RGIII doesn't turn out to be a franchise QB?
I mean we can always spin the what ifs, but pure logic still stays the same. The rams made a good move for their situation. BTW I am not bagging on the skins trade either...... well I originally did, but that wasn't my 1st taste of crow, so I can admit things look good for the skins. Now if you want to argue which ended up with the better deal. then I would agree with Warpath & say still to be determined. But by no way was the move a bad move for the rams. the risky move in the trade was by the skins, but might very well pay off for them. I am not comparing who got the best of the trade. I am simply saying no way you can say that it was a bad trade by the rams.

BTW shark. Jump in anytime you like. I enjoy football talk over other things we been reading. Lil debates never hurt anyone.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd add Atlanta, Detroit, or Baltimore. I also don't think Cincy, Carolina, and SF would have made that trade. My biggest concern if I were a Skins fan are the knees. I have no doubt RGIII can lead the team to wins but I have concerns that he will have a long career. If he gets the Skins to the playoffs for 3 straight years then his knees give out how far back are you set. You'd have a team with no 1st's for 2 years and no QB.

Manster.. ten years ago I would have worried about the knees. But honestly now, knowing what i do know both first, second and third hand about knees, Im not overly concerned. Short of a targeted injruy shot, I dont expect the knee to be a long term problem. If he were 32, it would worry me. As for the two first rounders... you are just as likely to pick a Bobby Carpenter as you are a Dez Bryant with those picks. A franchise Qb still trumps all. And even with the playing style, Vick has played 10 seasons, Cunningham played atleast that, So I have no doubt RG3 will be in Washington atleast until my youngest gets his masters.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Manster.. ten years ago I would have worried about the knees. But honestly now, knowing what i do know both first, second and third hand about knees, Im not overly concerned. Short of a targeted injruy shot, I dont expect the knee to be a long term problem. If he were 32, it would worry me. As for the two first rounders... you are just as likely to pick a Bobby Carpenter as you are a Dez Bryant with those picks. A franchise Qb still trumps all. And even with the playing style, Vick has played 10 seasons, Cunningham played atleast that, So I have no doubt RG3 will be in Washington atleast until my youngest gets his masters.

I'm really not worried about his knees either. Modern medicine does wonders. Who's the RB that had his kneeget snapped & was totally beside him when he was tackled in college.(he was in this years draft) Who was the Miami RB had a major knee wipe out? Was that gore? Damn lost my mind & cant remember but he has had a good career with no knee issues. Steve Smith broke his leg & came back faster than before. especially when a player is young chances of losing speed is less, which I am sure RGIII wont want to lose. I think the injury affecting him him is overhyped personally. if he is over the mental part of it, he will be good to go.

 

[Warpath]

I'm more concerned with potential concussions if he doesn't start playing smarter as far as sliding, running out of bounds and throwing the ball away goes.

 

[Manster7588]

Manster.. ten years ago I would have worried about the knees. But honestly now, knowing what i do know both first, second and third hand about knees, Im not overly concerned. Short of a targeted injruy shot, I dont expect the knee to be a long term problem. If he were 32, it would worry me. As for the two first rounders... you are just as likely to pick a Bobby Carpenter as you are a Dez Bryant with those picks. A franchise Qb still trumps all. And even with the playing style, Vick has played 10 seasons, Cunningham played atleast that, So I have no doubt RG3 will be in Washington atleast until my youngest gets his masters.

You rubbing that rabbits foot? I hope he does stay healthy because I hate seeing career ending injuries. However as I said a few time before I think RGIII should give up on the NFL and put that Political Science degree to good use. It sure would make make me happy

 

[PDay8810]

Snook.. I dont disagree with you one bit. they are both expecting the other to some how give up and admit the other team is more powerful. But this being the Dallas board, Pday does have atleast some standing to be the piss ant that he is. So I was hoping to simply defuse the situation and appeal to Warp to just walk away on that basis alone. I simply ignore PDay because half his rants are based in the past. As I said, season starts soon, there will be plenty of bragging rights to go around then.

wrong again....the point has always been Dallas's lack of depth with you and you can't shopw me the depth on the redskins. True statement.

now, Your defense will be bottom 5 without injuries and all the cheerleader can do is scream last year.

You guys have TWO points
1. Last year (and you've worn that out the last 6 months)
2. Bob gives you a chance

Biggest point....NO WAY I can toot my boys on the skids board the way you two have here. I don't even try 9 outta 10 times.

 

[Warpath]

You don't go 10-6 while losing 4 starters on defense and 2 on offense without having some depth. Part of the reason I think the Redskins improve is getting those players back this year healthy. Just as you assume the same for the Cowboys.

 

[PDay8810]

"Pday does have atleast some standing to be the piss ant that he is"

you know I've always thought I've gotton the better of you when football was discussed....which explains why you should ignore me.


I'd also add the cheerleader can't leave it alone....8 hours pass and then he lurks.

Funny shit and this year is going to be fun for somebody after all the shit talk

LOL...look forward to it....lack of depth and all

 

[PDay8810]

You don't go 10-6 while losing 4 starters on defense and 2 on offense without having some depth. Part of the reason I think the Redskins improve is getting those players back this year healthy. Just as you assume the same for the Cowboys.

No Sir.....I've said pretty clearly that I think your defense will be bottom five and I also don't see the oline depth and injuries will not escape the skids two years in a row on that oline.

 

[Warpath]

Well, you also said they'd be 6-10 last year, based on what you thought of the roster same time last year. Guess we will see how that approach works out for you this time around.

 

[PDay8810]

Well, you also said they'd be 6-10 last year, based on what you thought of the roster same time last year. Guess we will see how that approach works out for you this time around.

half true bovey

low end 6-10
high end 8-8


all your team has to do is prove me wrong

 

[PDay8810]

sorry....correction

you are right about last year 5 to 6 wins tops and I was wrong

I also been right 7 years running....even the year we lost Romo and started 1-7

The season will show who knew their stuff about all that

 

[blue jersey jinx]

We had 4 starters out on defense.

We had 5 starters out on defense and two others played crippled half the year. What's your point?

 

[Warpath]

We had 5 starters out on defense and two others played crippled half the year. What's your point?

I was correcting a false statement. We weren't missing just two starters on defense. My point was we were missing 4. Seems self explanatory.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I was correcting a false statement. We weren't missing just two starters on defense. My point was we were missing 4. Seems self explanatory.

I hate excuses. The Redskins were just better last year plain and simple, and they proved it in the last game. The Cowboys have been better for the last 40 years, another fact which cant be disputed. And they will beat down the Redskins twice this year and win the East, a fact that will be proven soon enough