NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[thunderc]

its the same with Denzel Ward's extension. Its typical of teams to convert most of the first year into bonus money that can be amortized for cap purposes for the entire length of the contract.

So the way the contract is structured they don’t lose much if he doesn’t play this season. Hmmm.

 

[fightinfunbags]

So the way the contract is structured they don’t lose much if he doesn’t play this season. Hmmm.

I don’t know the bonus structures but they could actually save money if the bonuses are performance centered. But if it’s just application of the signing bonus to the salary cap then I’m wrong on that.

 

[trojanfan12]

So the way the contract is structured they don’t lose much if he doesn’t play this season. Hmmm.

That could be coincidental. As Wiggy said, converting most of that 1st year salary to a bonus, helps with cap space, allowing them to put better pieces around him. It's likely that they would have structured it the same way even without a likely suspension.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So the way the contract is structured they don’t lose much if he doesn’t play this season. Hmmm.

uhh what?? I do not understand what you are saying.

 

[thunderc]

uhh what?? I do not understand what you are saying.

I’m saying the Browns will lose a million in salary if he doesn’t play this year, which he won’t. Trojan is probably right that hits concidental though, I mean the Browns are the worst run organization in the history of sports.

 

[dtgold88]

@dtgold88 @Shanemansj13

how about that win tonight against the Dodgers? Plesac vs. Kershaw - and Plesac outpitched him. Clase not avaliable after working so much lately- same with Morgan- and the got the win in extras. Huge win for them against a very good Dodgers team on the road. Guardians have now won 14 of 17 games.

Guardians have BY FAR the youngest roster in baseball. I read their average age is younger than a lot of Triple A teams. They are trying to thread the needle and do a "rebuild" while contending- and that is not easy- but if anyone can manage it- its Francona.

Its surprising to me- because of some of the guys that have underachieved- Civale has been beat up- and then finally went on the DL. Franmil- who I thought would be their 2nd best hitter after Jose- have been non-existent. Straw- who I thought would have a .340-.350 OBP, has been terrible the last 6 weeks after a strong start. Incredibly Straw still has over 40 runs- which- considering the amount of rainouts the Guards have had- is still fairly impressive......but if you told me Franiml, Civale, Straw, would have given them practically nothing- I would have been extremely worried. Not to mention Karinchak has not thrown a pitch yet.

Of course- some of the other guys have really started to develop. Gimenez was a big time prospect- but struggled last year. Damn- those struggles are over. He looks great. One of the most underated guys has been Eli Morgan.....with the pitching they have- and the minor league starters they have- I was kinda worried about where he would end up--- but the move to the bullpen has been fantastic for him.

Guardians have a ton of minor league starters----- Beytonfield, Pilkington, Myers, Morris---- are all guys who have major league talent and could be called up to start games. They are more "depth" guys though--- and those type of guys the Guardians usually do a good job of hitting on. Beytonfield has looked good so far in some of the starts he has had. I bet at least one or two of these guys become effective major league starters.

The thing is- while those 4 guys could start games and are major league ready--- the REAL starting pitching prospects are Gavin Williams, Logan Allen and of course- the crown jewell- David Espino. Espino is going to be a stud. Williams is probably the most polished- long time high level college starter--- and I think he will be good--- but David Espino is going to be a high level major leaguer---- I doubt he comes up this year with all the guys ahead of him and with the way the Guardians do things--- but hes coming sooner or later. MLB.com has Espino as the #11 prospect in all of the minors.

Owen Miller and Kwan have come back down to earth a little and the league has made an adjustment- and they have to adjust back- but both guys look like they will be around a long time.

Its great to see the development- especially considering we have not even seen the best young players the Guardians have yet--- Arias, Freeman, Valera, Rocchio and of course Williams and Espino. Some scouts love Rocchio and think he is the Guardians best prospect- Keith Law- in his preseason rankings at TheAthletic had him #22 in all of baseball- but hes still a year or two away. Valera is crushing Double A. Maybe we can finally develop a stud outfielder. MLB.com has Valera as #40---- but hes going to shoot up those rankings in the next year. Freeman is a little older- 23 already--- with with Arias or Rocchio destined to be SS- and Gimenez at 2B - im not sure where Freeman fits in-- but one thing is for certain- he will hit.

No one knows for sure with minor leaguers- but it would surprise me of Valera and Espino are not all star level players some day. Rocchio is the wild card. He could be Lindor 2.0.

I have thought for a long time this FO is elite and certainly nothing this year has changed my mind about that. Could make this year more interesting than I though (also could have a slump and fall out of the mix) and for sure look like we could become contenders within the next 2-3 seasons.

A shame Dolan lacks the will to win to make that happen sooner. Maybe Blitzer helps matters, though Pluto doesn't seem to think he will...at least not short term.

 

[tlance]

Was wondering about that too. I'd bet the NFLPA will try to use ''he's already sat out a year'' to as part of their argument. It'll be interesting to see if the NFL buys it.

No way they can use the time served defense.

He sat out a year because he chose to. This is different.

 

[dtgold88]

This is exciting! Do you mind giving us a break down of this young talent in terms of who is most likely to be too good for Cleveland to pay so we fans of teams with an actual payroll can start sizing them up?

Damn I wish this wasn't true.

Luckily this FO knows who on your teams to steal when they make these trades. so we've got that going for us?

 

[dtgold88]

And? What has that gotten them? Phil’s have won a WS and then gone to shit and will compete for and win a WS again before Cleveland sniffs anything.

I mean, no doubt I wish we could fall back on a WS title, but not sure I agree with the latter...especially if an owner with a will to win comes sooner than later.

 

[dtgold88]

No way they can use the time served defense.

He sat out a year because he chose to. This is different.

Not sure he chose too and Houston also didn't want him out....though because he was paid it might be tough to use that defense.

 

[dtgold88]

And? I’ve seen five WS in my lifetime and won 2. And the Phillies have lost more games than any other franchise in the history of North American sports. And I’m still standing here mocking Cleveland.

How old are you?

 

[fightinfunbags]

I mean, no doubt I wish we could fall back on a WS title, but not sure I agree with the latter...especially if an owner with a will to win comes sooner than later.

The Tampa Bay Rays and the Oakland As of the world don’t win WS. They can compete and have great regular seasons now and again but they don’t close the deal. The teams that close the deal are the teams with payrolls in the top 1/3

 

[dtgold88]

You’re right. But that gets mitigated because it’s a real sports city that funds a baseball team.

I mean, that kind of has to do with the owner as the Cavs and Browns play in the same city and have been at or near the top in spending.

want to tell me the Phillies owner has a greater will to win than Dolan? No disagreement...and not close.

 

[dtgold88]

And where is the scouting report I asked for on who the Phil’s should be shopping for when Gregorious and Segura come off the books. Any young arms you will refuse to pay for?

I mean, if they are it's more likely they'll be traded.......to a team with better prospects than the Phillies?

 

[fightinfunbags]

How old are you?

46
4 years old in 80
7 years old in 83
17 years old in 93
32 years old in 2008
33 years old in 2009.

 

[tlance]

Not sure he chose too and Houston also didn't want him out....though because he was paid it might be tough to use that defense.

He said he wasn’t going to play for Houston again. Then Houston wisely didn’t try to force him into anything. They just paid him and let him sit until they could find a good trade.

That is how teams should handle disgruntled stars.

But still, no way he can use time served.

 

[dtgold88]

well, Bieber is here for 2 more years after this one. McKenzie and Quintrell each I think 4 more years depending--- maybe 5 for Mckenzie- not sure if he got enough service time......to make room in the rotation I wouldnt be surprised if they traded Plesac. With Espino coming up- they are going to have to make room at some point.

Itll be interesting with Bieber if they resign him or not. WIth the new minority owner who will become the majority owner- it wouldnt surprise me if they signed him if he didnt want every last dollar--- but most of the time, signing pitchers to long term deals does not work out. i. e. Guardians usually do a pretty good job of moving on before they fall off and are stuck with a bad deal i. e. Clevinger, Kluber, etc. The Clevinger trade for instance was absolutely brilliant.

Prior to last year- Ithought Bieber would be gone- but then he got injured last year- and his velocity is down this year- and even though he has been very good- I am not sure I would want to give him a 6-7 year deal like they just gave to Jose Ramirez. Though- with the new ownership ties and recent history- it wouldnt surprise me if they signed him if it was reasonable.

agree....if he wants a huge deal for 4-5 years I'd strongly consider keeping him. 7 or more? No thanks.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I mean, if they are it's more likely they'll be traded.......to a team with better prospects than the Phillies?

No doubt. Phillies farm is one of the worst in baseball and why it takes more than just a payroll to have the ultimate success. Best Phillies teams in my lifetime did it with homegrown guys like Schmidt Bowa Boone and later Utley Rollins Howard and Hamels

 

[dtgold88]

I want that scumbag's suspension announced ASAP so I can make fun of any Browns fans that might have an issue with the length of the suspension. He deserves whatever he gets. And I don't wanna hear any BS from fans that it's too long.

and if it's too short or nothing?

 

[dtgold88]

The Tampa Bay Rays and the Oakland As of the world don’t win WS. They can compete and have great regular seasons now and again but they don’t close the deal. The teams that close the deal are the teams with payrolls in the top 1/3

I mean, we got to Game 7 and extra innings so hard to think we couldn't get things done....and that was with bottom half of payroll. I'm confident this FO could compete every year and eventually get the job done if only Dolan would le them spend in the top half consistently.