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NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

fightinfunbags

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It’s no surprise that the two best divisions in baseball are both in the East where clubs are actually financed with a legitimate payroll.
 

WiggyRuss

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“Better end of the deal” - what you tell yourself when you haven’t won a World Series since 1948. I’m sorry. Isn’t winning a championship the goal of sports competition?
what you think they should have held onto Clevinger instead of getting Quintrell (who has pitched better), Naylor and Hedges?

What you think they should have kept an aging Corey Kluber and paid him a ton of money over trading him for Emmanuel Clase?

What you think they should have gave Lindor 350 million instead of trading him for All Star and soon to be gold glove winner Gimenez, and Rosario and 2 low level prospects?

Go ahead- who that you know nothing about baseball. Show me a trade or a guy leaving as a free agent that the other team got the better of the deal.

This is how you have the 2nd best record in the AL over a 10 year span- and make the playoffs 5 of 9 years- with a low payroll.
 

fightinfunbags

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That is the ultimate goal but you decided to discuss trades and for some reason cannot get youself to simply say the Tribe has been really good in these deals and come out on the better end of most.

me - Tribe comes out on top in most deals
you - no they don't
me - shows deals they came out on top
you - but they didn't win a title

I do hope you have help when you move the goal posts as they are heavy
Actually, no I didn’t. From the jump I said that the reason why these little things are brought up is because there are no big successes to point to. I neither praised nor criticized individual deals. What I have said is that the model is a road to nowhere. You have to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle that one time like the KC Royals did in 2015.
 

fightinfunbags

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what would you deem the best way to compare one division with another? Does record outside division have anything to do with it?
Winning percentage of the participants.
 

WiggyRuss

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Better end of the deal gets tempered when the primary objective is winning a championship and that doesn’t happen with this model. People like you focus on these small little marginal victories because real victories don’t exist.
that is the goal of the deals- to win a championship. There are different ways to build a team- and trading guys at the height of their value before they are signed to deals that all to often turn out to be bad for the signing team is usually a pretty good strategy.

What has all that free agent money gotten the Phillies? A decade of no playoffs.
 

fightinfunbags

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what you think they should have held onto Clevinger instead of getting Quintrell (who has pitched better), Naylor and Hedges?

What you think they should have kept an aging Corey Kluber and paid him a ton of money over trading him for Emmanuel Clase?

What you think they should have gave Lindor 350 million instead of trading him for All Star and soon to be gold glove winner Gimenez, and Rosario and 2 low level prospects?

Go ahead- who that you know nothing about baseball. Show me a trade or a guy leaving as a free agent that the other team got the better of the deal.

This is how you have the 2nd best record in the AL over a 10 year span- and make the playoffs 5 of 9 years- with a low payroll.
I said “this is what you tell yourself when you don’t win anything”. I didn’t criticize any single move nor praise it. Have a great time this fall rooting for future Dodgers, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets.
 

trojanfan12

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How can something be “the best story in baseball” when no one outside of Guardians fans care?

Care might be a bit strong, but a story of a young team arriving early and maybe making a little noise in the playoffs does generate interest.

Networks will still want Yankees/Dodgers in the World Series, but they'd also like a team like the Indians (sorry, just can't call them Guardians) making some noise in the early rounds.

It's not unlike March Madness. We want the blue bloods in the Final Four, but love the little schools upsetting or throwing a good scare into the big boys.
 

fightinfunbags

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that is the goal of the deals- to win a championship. There are different ways to build a team- and trading guys at the height of their value before they are signed to deals that all to often turn out to be bad for the signing team is usually a pretty good strategy.

What has all that free agent money gotten the Phillies? A decade of no playoffs.
A parade that I attended with my friends and family on Halloween day 2008.
 

fightinfunbags

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Care might be a bit strong, but a story of a young team arriving early and maybe making a little noise in the playoffs does generate interest.

Networks will still want Yankees/Dodgers in the World Series, but they'd also like a team like the Indians (sorry, just can't call them Guardians) making some noise in the early rounds.

It's not unlike March Madness. We want the blue bloods in the Final Four, but love the little schools upsetting or throwing a good scare into the big boys.
How did the Rays do in the eyes of the networks when they’ve made their runs? The Royals? You’re talking some of the lowest metrics MLB ratings have seen.
 

dtgold88

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It’s no surprise that the two best divisions in baseball are both in the East where clubs are actually financed with a legitimate payroll.
some are, some aren't. The East has 4 payrolls 20 or lower. West has 3. Not sure how this is some sort of "win" for you, though, as in this discussion about the Tribe we all know their owner is cheap......but the FO is exceptional.
 

fightinfunbags

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some are, some aren't. The East has 4 payrolls 20 or lower. West has 3. Not sure how this is some sort of "win" for you, though, as in this discussion about the Tribe we all know their owner is cheap......but the FO is exceptional.
Two of those payrolls are teams in Florida where no one cares about pro sports in the Marlins and the Rays. The other is the Nats who have shown a willingness to spend money. They won a WS and are now rebuilding. When they build another core they will spend money again.
 

dtgold88

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Actually, no I didn’t. From the jump I said that the reason why these little things are brought up is because there are no big successes to point to. I neither praised nor criticized individual deals. What I have said is that the model is a road to nowhere. You have to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle that one time like the KC Royals did in 2015.
In a sense you are correct as it was Wiggy and not me who said this (post 24,655). He tried to remind you the Tribe FO has been exceptional making deals and instead of saying something mundane like "that's true and they seem to be set up well", you went with “Better end of the deal” - what you tell yourself when you haven’t won a World Series since 1948. I’m sorry. Isn’t winning a championship the goal of sports competition?"

Again, I said better end of the deal is what I tell myself when we get the better end of a deal. I showed you some deals that qualified.
 

WiggyRuss

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I said “this is what you tell yourself when you don’t win anything”. I didn’t criticize any single move nor praise it. Have a great time this fall rooting for future Dodgers, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets.
hey- that is fine- the Mets can pay Lindor a ton of money to be no better or worse than Andres Gimenez.

I am sure the Guardians are more than thrilled to see the Padres paying Clevinger a bunch of money for a worse season than Quintrell- and also having Naylor, Hedges, Arias, Cantillo, Miller to show for it.

and yah- the NL East has gotten pretty good the last couple years---- but it was very mediocre for a long time there. The Mets were nothing for the longest time and the Braves just recently got really good again. You arein the same division as the Marlins and NAtionals for shitsake.


and dont act like hte Phillies are actually good- against your main competition- the Mets and Bravees- you are something like 13-25 this year.
 

fightinfunbags

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In a sense you are correct as it was Wiggy and not me who said this (post 24,655). He tried to remind you the Tribe FO has been exceptional making deals and instead of saying something mundane like "that's true and they seem to be set up well", you went with “Better end of the deal” - what you tell yourself when you haven’t won a World Series since 1948. I’m sorry. Isn’t winning a championship the goal of sports competition?"

Again, I said better end of the deal is what I tell myself when we get the better end of a deal. I showed you some deals that qualified.
The “set up well” shit is what I’m pushing back on. How can you say that when experience tells you that you’re watching players who will soon be paid by other teams? It’s “set up well” if the plan is eventually pay those guys and keep them together when it’s time for them to win.
 

fightinfunbags

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Cool, which division participants has a better overall record.....
A) 359-405
B) 354-412
Where in my post did I say that you should do analysis by breaking the data up into subsets?
 

WiggyRuss

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Actually, no I didn’t. From the jump I said that the reason why these little things are brought up is because there are no big successes to point to. I neither praised nor criticized individual deals. What I have said is that the model is a road to nowhere. You have to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle that one time like the KC Royals did in 2015.
lightning in a bottle? Thats what happens when you barely ever make the playoffs like the Phillies.

The Guardians actually pretty consistently make the playoffs.
 

fightinfunbags

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hey- that is fine- the Mets can pay Lindor a ton of money to be no better or worse than Andres Gimenez.

I am sure the Guardians are more than thrilled to see the Padres paying Clevinger a bunch of money for a worse season than Quintrell- and also having Naylor, Hedges, Arias, Cantillo, Miller to show for it.

and yah- the NL East has gotten pretty good the last couple years---- but it was very mediocre for a long time there. The Mets were nothing for the longest time and the Braves just recently got really good again. You arein the same division as the Marlins and NAtionals for shitsake.


and dont act like hte Phillies are actually good- against your main competition- the Mets and Bravees- you are something like 13-25 this year.
The Marlins have won multiple World Series since Cleveland last won. The Washington Expos have actually closed the deal more recently than the Indians as well. This is exactly what I’m talking about. When there are no results to point to you become innately focused on over playing small process victories that have led nowhere and will continue to lead nowhere.
 

dtgold88

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Two of those payrolls are teams in Florida where no one cares about pro sports in the Marlins and the Rays. The other is the Nats who have shown a willingness to spend money. They won a WS and are now rebuilding. When they build another core they will spend money again.
The Marlins and Rays are in the East. Been a long time since either was willing to spend. Not sure the Rays ever have.

spending often can depend on the owner. If it's a guy like Illitch who has an obscene will to win he'll spend. as a fan, can only hope your team is owned by a guy like that......or has brought in an elite FO. Both would be better.
 
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