Series Thread: NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavaliers

[purguy12]

Have you ever seen him make a big shot at the end of a big game? Its always a teammate, like Irving last year.

I agree, LBJ is missing that. He has crumbled more then making that big shot in big moments. He has great games just fades in late in games like yesterday.

 

[Montalban]

I agree, LBJ is missing that. He has crumbled more then making that big shot in big moments. He has great games just fades in late in games like yesterday.

I would not want him on the Warriors. I'd have to stop rooting for them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If people stopped comparing him to Jordan, the view looks different.

He is way more comparable to Magic.

He'd much rather make the RIGHT play, instead of forcing up a shot.

But, I grudgingly agree with part of your thought process.

If he were more selfish, he'd be a bigger monster.

Plus, Magic was not afraid of the moment.....EVER.

If you want to be considered in the GOAT conversation -- you are going to be compared to Jordan, plain and simple.

And I agree about it being the 'right play', which is why I said, if it were the 1st quarter -- that's a nice play. It wasn't though -- he is paid the big bucks to be the man when the game is on the line. WAAAAY too many times he defers to a teammate. Cleveland isn't paying Kyle Korver 30 million a year or whatever Lebron makes.

And I agree with the Magic comparison, but with that, it takes him out of the GOAT conversation. I actually hope Cleveland gets swept, because it'd put an end to that talk. It'd make him 17-27 in NBA final games.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I agree, LBJ is missing that. He has crumbled more then making that big shot in big moments. He has great games just fades in late in games like yesterday.

Exactly. Agree 1000%. If the GOAT conversation was only about the first 3 quarters -- I'd take Lebron over anyone. Legends are made in the fourth quarter though and Lebron disappears as much, if not more, than he shows up.

 

[LAD]

If people stopped comparing him to Jordan, the view looks different.

He is way more comparable to Magic.

He'd much rather make the RIGHT play, instead of forcing up a shot.

But, I grudgingly agree with part of your thought process.

If he were more selfish, he'd be a bigger monster.

Plus, Magic was not afraid of the moment.....EVER.

Couldn't agree more with all of these points...

 

[LAD]

Exactly. Agree 1000%. If the GOAT conversation was only about the first 3 quarters -- I'd take Lebron over anyone. Legends are made in the fourth quarter though and Lebron disappears as much, if not more, than he shows up.

Well yea I agree with this statement.

However, I don't think this is what happened last night. I think Kyrie was a mental midget in the last 3 minutes or so & it cost them the game.

 

[tlance]

Well yea I agree with this statement.

However, I don't think this is what happened last night. I think Kyrie was a mental midget in the last 3 minutes or so & it cost them the game.

It is kind of ironic.

Kyrie gets blasted for going hero ball and forcing a bad shot over Klay. LeBron gets blasted for passing to an open Korver, who happens to be one of the best shooters of all time, instead of forcing a shot in the lane over likely DPOY Draymond Green.

Korver is every bit as good a shooter as Steve Kerr was. The problem was that Korver missed, not that LeBron made the pass. Kyrie's decision was a legitimately bad one. LeBron's was not.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

If you want to be considered in the GOAT conversation -- you are going to be compared to Jordan, plain and simple.

And I agree about it being the 'right play', which is why I said, if it were the 1st quarter -- that's a nice play. It wasn't though -- he is paid the big bucks to be the man when the game is on the line. WAAAAY too many times he defers to a teammate. Cleveland isn't paying Kyle Korver 30 million a year or whatever Lebron makes.

And I agree with the Magic comparison, but with that, it takes him out of the GOAT conversation. I actually hope Cleveland gets swept, because it'd put an end to that talk. It'd make him 17-27 in NBA final games.

Right.

You are preaching to the choir.

Very few people here, even amongst Cavs fans, think he is the Goat.

He is most certainly behind Jordan and KAJ.

A case could be made that he is behind Duncan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Russell too.

*Not by me though*

My only issue with the criticism Lebron gets is this:

We vilify players like Kobe for being me first, second, third and last and not being a Team player and making others around him better.

This is the main argument against him being in the conversation for possible GOAT, or even top 5 historically.

Now, we vilify Lebron for doing the opposite.

Cant have it both ways.

 

[msgkings322]

I would not want him on the Warriors. I'd have to stop rooting for them.

How would anyone know the difference?

 

[LAD]

It is kind of ironic.

Kyrie gets blasted for going hero ball and forcing a bad shot over Klay. LeBron gets blasted for passing to an open Korver, who happens to be one of the best shooters of all time, instead of forcing a shot in the lane over likely DPOY Draymond Green.

Korver is every bit as good a shooter as Steve Kerr was. The problem was that Korver missed, not that LeBron made the pass. Kyrie's decision was a legitimately bad one. LeBron's was not.

Agreed.

I think Kyrie's iso game helps them the most in close game situations, like last night's game. Two things stood out to me the most:

1. He played iso so much that by the time they actually needed him to the defense was ready for it
2. He stopped doing what worked for him - getting to the rim. I will never understand why guys in crucial moments go away from the strategy that has worked the entire night.

 

[LAD]

Right.

You are preaching to the choir.

Very few people here, even amongst Cavs fans, think he is the Goat.

He is most certainly behind Jordan and KAJ.

A case could be made that he is behind Duncan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Russell too.

*Not by me though*

My only issue with the criticism Lebron gets is this:

We vilify players like Kobe for being me first, second, third and last and not being a Team player and making others around him better.

This is the main argument against him being in the conversation for possible GOAT, or even top 5 historically.

Now, we vilify Lebron for doing the opposite.

Cant have it both ways.

See me & you are here...

The two things I think I appreciated most about Kobe's game was his confidence in his abilities & the ice in his veins in clutch moments.

 

[bksballer89]

so we're back to the myth about lebron not being good in the clutch lmao

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Facts:

Kyle Korver is shooting 59% on wide open corner 3s this year.
He is a top 5 3 point shooter of all time.
Draymond Green is a two time runner up for DPOY, and overwhelming favorite to win it this season.

Game Options:

1) take a well-covered shot for 2 points against Draymond.
2) Pass the ball to arguably one of the greatest 3 point shooters of all time completely unguarded.


All these Warriors fans who brag nonstop about Draymond Green's defense are suddenly acting like Lebron was all but guaranteed to score versus Green.

 

[bksballer89]

Facts:

Kyle Korver is shooting 59% on wide open corner 3s this year.
He is a top 5 3 point shooter of all time.
Draymond Green is a two time runner up for DPOY, and overwhelming favorite to win it this season.

Game Options:

1) take a well-covered shot for 2 points against Draymond.
2) Pass the ball to arguably one of the greatest 3 point shooters of all time completely unguarded.


All these Warriors fans who brag nonstop about Draymond Green's defense are suddenly acting like Lebron was all but guaranteed to score versus Green.

Don't forget that Durant was there as well.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Right.

You are preaching to the choir.

Very few people here, even amongst Cavs fans, think he is the Goat.

He is most certainly behind Jordan and KAJ.

A case could be made that he is behind Duncan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Russell too.

*Not by me though*

My only issue with the criticism Lebron gets is this:

We vilify players like Kobe for being me first, second, third and last and not being a Team player and making others around him better.

This is the main argument against him being in the conversation for possible GOAT, or even top 5 historically.

Now, we vilify Lebron for doing the opposite.

Cant have it both ways.

I would never vilify Lebron for making that play in the first half of a game or even the 3rd quarter or half of the 4th quarter.

If you want to be a facilitator, by all means, feel free. In crunch time, when the lights are the brightest and the pressure is suffocating -- that is when the best of the best earn their money. Kyle Korver is a great shooter, but if you are a Cleveland fan, is that who you want to hang your hat on with the season on the line? How many times has he felt the pressure of the NBA finals with time winding down?

IMO -- Lebron made the right play if it weren't the end of a must win back and forth game. When the Cavs HAD to get a bucket, he deferred to Kyle Korver. That would make me livid if I'm a Cavs fan.

***disclaimer***
I actually really like Lebron. I have an autographed jersey from his rookie year hanging in my basement. I think he is the most physically gifted player the NBA has ever seen seen. He just doesn't have the one intangible you can't teach.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Facts:

Kyle Korver is shooting 59% on wide open corner 3s this year.
He is a top 5 3 point shooter of all time.
Draymond Green is a two time runner up for DPOY, and overwhelming favorite to win it this season.

Game Options:

1) take a well-covered shot for 2 points against Draymond.
2) Pass the ball to arguably one of the greatest 3 point shooters of all time completely unguarded.


All these Warriors fans who brag nonstop about Draymond Green's defense are suddenly acting like Lebron was all but guaranteed to score versus Green.

While you are stating facts -- how many games has Korver played in the NBA finals? And what is his shooting percentage on 3 pointers in those NBA finals with the clock running out in a must win game in the NBA finals?

I couldn't care less what a guy has done in the regular season. The playoffs and ESPECIALLY the NBA finals are an entirely different beast.

 

[tlance]

I would never vilify Lebron for making that play in the first half of a game or even the 3rd quarter or half of the 4th quarter.

If you want to be a facilitator, by all means, feel free. In crunch time, when the lights are the brightest and the pressure is suffocating -- that is when the best of the best earn their money. Kyle Korver is a great shooter, but if you are a Cleveland fan, is that who you want to hang your hat on with the season on the line? How many times has he felt the pressure of the NBA finals with time winding down?

IMO -- Lebron made the right play if it weren't the end of a must win back and forth game. When the Cavs HAD to get a bucket, he deferred to Kyle Korver. That would make me livid if I'm a Cavs fan.

***disclaimer***
I actually really like Lebron. I have an autographed jersey from his rookie year hanging in my basement. I think he is the most physically gifted player the NBA has ever seen seen. He just doesn't have the one intangible you can't teach.

I understand that this is many basketball people have thought for years and years because this is how Jordan and Kobe played. THe best player takes the last shot.

Thing is, the entire principle is wrong. LeBron created a great shot for a teammate. I am sure Kobe and Jordan would have shot there. I am also sure the expected value of that shot in the lane is less than half of the expected value for Korver's 3.

Korver is a professional shooter. It isn't like he passed to Shumpert. If Korver cannot be trusted to make a shot in that situation, then he shouldn't be on the court. The reason why LeBron has a good shooting percentage on these clutch plays is because he is a willing passer. He won't just jack any old shot if a teammate has a better one.

 

[Montalban]

How would anyone know the difference?

Let's hope we don't have to find out.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I would never vilify Lebron for making that play in the first half of a game or even the 3rd quarter or half of the 4th quarter.

If you want to be a facilitator, by all means, feel free. In crunch time, when the lights are the brightest and the pressure is suffocating -- that is when the best of the best earn their money. Kyle Korver is a great shooter, but if you are a Cleveland fan, is that who you want to hang your hat on with the season on the line? How many times has he felt the pressure of the NBA finals with time winding down?

IMO -- Lebron made the right play if it weren't the end of a must win back and forth game. When the Cavs HAD to get a bucket, he deferred to Kyle Korver. That would make me livid if I'm a Cavs fan.

***disclaimer***
I actually really like Lebron. I have an autographed jersey from his rookie year hanging in my basement. I think he is the most physically gifted player the NBA has ever seen seen. He just doesn't have the one intangible you can't teach.

That's fair.

But, the pass was the right play...imo

However, you do have a point.

 

[purguy12]

It is kind of ironic.

Kyrie gets blasted for going hero ball and forcing a bad shot over Klay. LeBron gets blasted for passing to an open Korver, who happens to be one of the best shooters of all time, instead of forcing a shot in the lane over likely DPOY Draymond Green.

Korver is every bit as good a shooter as Steve Kerr was. The problem was that Korver missed, not that LeBron made the pass. Kyrie's decision was a legitimately bad one. LeBron's was not.

I think the problem is he always passes the ball at those moments